[Closed] 2015-16 rugby, world cup year

Quite clever having an age grade tie in.

Wrecker - isn't EJ trying to do that with Ford?
He is out of form and playing poorly, but has been identified as the one to take England forward as he does seem to have great vision and passing ability when on form. Therefore you stick with him?
Or do they just share caps about trying to find a miracle? Personally I think if you identify someone then you should stick with it. I hope EJ does this in several key positions when he is ready and has established the players he wants and that can play in the style he would like.

It's a damn good question bear, and not one I have an answer to.
I am not, nor have I ever been convinced that Ford is as good as some seem to think. Given a year at 10, I think Slade would be better.

wrecker - Member

I disagree.

Sounds like you agree more than you disagree - that's pretty much the point I was trying to make but perhaps I didn't put it so well. :;

As for FH - Ford has proved with Bath and England that he can be a top-class operator so EJ looks like he'll stick with him. Slade might turn out to be better but he hasn't played too much at 10 for Exeter and he's not playing at all at the moment so it's a moot point, for now.

There's a lot of luck needed in international rugby - unless you're Jonah Lomu. Being uninjured and in good form when the various windows for squad selection open is paramount. Slade has fallen foul of that by breaking his leg when surely he was looking at being the starting 12 for the 6N. If he's not back and playing well when the Aus tour squad is chosen then he might miss out again and that's a years potential development wasted.

The same has happened to Christian Wade a couple of times and poor old JSD always seemed to play a blinder but then pick up injuries at exactly the wrong moment for England selection.

Perhaps but it is relevant that (at present at least) Farrell is the better player.
Apologies if i missed your point, it's a source of frustration that we have such a successful u-20s team, and the route to the elite squad is shit compared to the ABs.
I also learned that the AB contracted players will barely play any club rugby leading up to a RWC, they take part in a RWC conditioning package instead....remarkable.

Is Farrell a better player? Apart from playing for a dominant club and being a good kicker and being able to throw a long miss pass to nobody in particular is he really better than Ford?

I also learned that the AB contracted players will barely play any club rugby leading up to a RWC, they take part in a RWC conditioning package instead....remarkable.

Well that's the beauty of central contracts. In 1995 the RFU decided to "wait and see" how things would turn out under professionalism. How it turned out was the clubs took control of all the players and have never relinquished it. Hence the sorry state of the England team ever since - 2003 excepted.

On current form, this is the best 10 in the English prem.

[img] ?20160222120621[/img]
All of him.

🙂

That's him lying down after running out the tunnel before the start of the match.......

All the kids are just about managing to hold the advertising hoarding up against the load

Is Farrell a better player?

All of him.

The bloke doesn't run, not even a little bit

Is that Andy Goode or Farrell you're talking about? 😆

Farrell has been playing great rugby this year and he shifts and he can tackle, as in actually bring players to the ground rather than act like a breathing speed bump 😉

Much as I loathe stats his tackling % is actually lower than Ford or Cipriani in the premiership.....

Ah, we both know that stat to be bollocks. Farrell is considerably stronger defensively than both. You only have to have seen them play to know that.

Skillz.

🙂

Ah, we both know that stat to be bollocks.

😆

I know you're right but I find Farell such a disagreeable sort that I'll persist in arguing the toss...... 😉

So you'd pick Ford because he's a bit less objectionable? 😯

At international level Farrell is nothing special and his development has stalled. Ford was first choice 10 for 18 (?) months before the RWC and it was a major error to switch to Farrell after the first game. Ford stays first choice until his England performances are not up to scratch. We know what we'll get with Farrell and its not enough.

On Wales bringing players into the side early it certainly helped a lot with North as he was a man mountain at 19. The intensity of International rugby mixed in with tough league and european schedules mean I'd rather see playets eased in gradually unless exceptional (North was/is)

On Wales bringing players into the side early it certainly helped a lot with North as he was a man mountain at 19.

Halfpenny also had a shit load of caps by 23 or 24.

Ford stays first choice until his England performances are not up to scratch

Friday night is not a proper time to be playing international rugby, grumble moan, kicks can and wanders off hands deep in pockets. Just saying.

I agree

So you'd pick Ford because he's a bit less objectionable?

If two players were equal I'd pick the less objectionable one.

I personally think Ford is better anyway so I'd pick him. With Cipriani on the bench. 😀

I agree too Pigface. Not least because I'll be in the air coming home from work and have to watch it later. Sport should be watched live otherwise there's no point cheering and shouting at the television where you can clearly make a difference to the outcome 🙂

Friday night is not a proper time to be playing international rugby, grumble moan, kicks can and wanders off hands deep in pockets. Just saying.

I work every Saturday. Checked my schedule over the weekend, thought about booking next Saturday off, decided against it. Then thought a bit harder - rugby 'til late on Friday with a few beers, I could then go to watch Swansea v Llanharan on Saturday with an old friend. A few more beers then meet my wife for a curry and Zoolander 2. I decided that, yes, I need to book Saturday off. By the time I made my decision all holidays had been blocked because work is expected to be busy. FFS!! Dithering fool.

Friday night is not a proper time to be playing international rugby, grumble moan, kicks can and wanders off hands deep in pockets. Just saying.

As an aside ticket sales for Twickenham seem to have dipped as RFU mailing about extra availability.

@wrecker in absolute fairness to you I"ve not watched a single game or any highlights 😳 Consistent with my view that post rwc 6n is largely irrelevant. Dropping who was the best 10 in the run up to the rwc and is the player to drive a more expansive game is imo daft, EJ seems to be agree. All my spectating this season will be European RC and Top14
Being slightly cheeky I can see why Irish and Welsh fans want to see Farrell, he's far less dangerous to them than Ford

I wonder of those england fans, who admires players like Mike Phillips, Picamoles, Healy etc for their no-nonsense approach. Farrell has done nothing these guys don't do.
I don't play this self loathing bollocks. I like Farrell and Brown. We lack fire and aggression. We have a lot of players who are scared to show their teeth when needs be. They act like a load of big soft dopey lummoxes 😀 Regan, Back, Dally, Hill, MJ etc must be rolling their eyes.

EJ seems to be agree.

Ford/ Cips/ type player with a proper 12 and a balanced back row is a team I wouldn't want to face. I think most teams would take Farrell all day long by choice! The other backs get instantly taken out of the game 😉

The England pack on form do the work of most full teams in defence so I don't think adding to the lumbering-1D-ness (Farrell) helps the team as a whole if you want to be more expansive (i.e. challenge the SH sides).

I wonder of those england fans, who admires players like Mike Phillips, Picamoles, Healy etc for their no-nonsense approach. Farrell has done nothing these guys don't do.

I wouldn't call Farrell no nonsense, nor the others really. Farrell is all mouth and no trousers which is what gets people's backs up and his "confrontational style" is often very misplaced and lets down the team as a result.

Farrell is a solid international 10 who'll kick penalties but isn't the long term option IMO. I would imagine Snr's meddling will also delay this progress

I wouldn't call Farrell no nonsense, nor the others really. Farrell is all mouth and no trousers which is what gets people's backs up and his "confrontational style" is often very misplaced and lets down the team as a result.

Ford/ Cips/ type player with a proper 12 and a balanced back row is a team I wouldn't want to face. I think most teams would take Farrell all day long by choice!

who admires players like Mike Phillips, Picamoles, Healy etc for their no-nonsense approach. Farrell has done nothing these guys don't do.

None of those players have played for England! Therefore Farrel is a scum bag but Phillips a saint.

Healey is actually the worst of the lot, a violent stampy thug who tries to injure people.

None of those players have played for England! Therefore Farrel is a scum bag but Phillips a saint.

The thing is, it's a lot easier to look good playing for Saracens than it is playing for either Sale or (at the moment) Bath.

When people say Farrell is the "form 10" in Europe that judgement is based on how he looks given an armchair ride by a dominant team.

Mike Philips may be a total kn*b off the pitch but at least he played some good stuff on it. Farrell just runs round all the time trying to be a total c**t. As does Brown.

Josh Lewsey was hard as nails without being a tw*t. That's what you want.

The thing is, it's a lot easier to look good playing for Saracens than it is playing for either Sale or (at the moment) Bath.

Brown is one of the only england players who came out of the RWC with any credit, and it was only a couple of years ago people were saying he was the best 15 in europe.Farrell may be running around being a * but he's still performing better than Ford, which says quite a lot about Fords form.
It's disconcerting when England fans won't acknowledge a good player for their own team just because they don't like them.

Oh, and Phillips was every bit the * on the pitch that MB and OF were/are, and then some. I liked him, too.

Brown's not that good either. He had one good run of games where he was England's best player but then Mark Cueto did the same a few years back - didn't make him Jason Robinson.

Brown lacks basic skills like how to draw a man and give a pass. (See Eng v Wales 2012 80th minute) He also lacks basic manners when talking to officials.

Brown's been lucky - Foden's been injured a lot and Armitage/Abendenon went to France. They should have stuck Watson in at fullback and let him learn on the job.

Anybody read the article on project players in the Times today? Talks about us and Ireland targeting players for positions using Stander,Nel and Payne as examples.

Well, I am a fan of Foden and watson, and I was not keen on Brown in the early days, but he does a job well. If he needs to behave aggressively to get the most out of his game, then it's fine by me. Armitage? 😆 and you think Brown is a ****? He's a complete novice compared to that [i]person[/i] AND he's shit anyway!

I'm in the camp that being a tw*t can be a good thing if you do it right on the rugby pitch. Farrells problem for me is that his aggression leads to him shooting out the line to smash the player and leaving a dogleg in defence, means everyone else has to compensate. This is fine if he smashed his man every time but he doesn't.

Re. Mike Brown I'd never noticed it before but someone mentioned it to me against Italy, he's so easy to read. He never carries the ball in two hands, therefore he never looks like he's going to pass it and that's why he doesn't draw defenders in. To his credit he's pretty good at wriggling through but he's never gonna put other people away until he learns to carry in two hands and at least look like he's considering using his support runners!

France: Maxime Medard; Virimi Vakatawa, Maxime Mermoz, Jonathan Danty, Djibril Camara; Jules Plisson, Maxime Machenaud; Jefferson Poirot, Guilhem Guirado (capt), Rabah Slimani, Alexandre Flanquart, Paul Jedrasiak, Antoine Burban, Damien Chouly, Wenceslas Lauret.

Replacements: Camille Chat, Uini Atonio, Vincent Pelo, Yoann Maestri, Loann Goujon, Sebastien Bezy, Francois Trinh Duc, Gael Fickou

Anyone able to offer some insight into that lot? Backs look sharpe, have no idea about pack

The problem with englands ****s is that they're aimless ****s, see Farrell's push on Laidlaw or brown starting on forwards on his own. When Phillips was being a **** he'd generally be a discerning **** and getting some gain by winding the player up.

They are all "no trousers". No fisticuffs allowed nowadays. I think his disciplinary record is better than Healys.

I'm glad others were able to better articulate what I meant when I said Farrell is all mouth and no trousers.... granted though Healy is some special kind of nut job for the stuff he comes up with some times

I'm in the camp that being a tw*t can be a good thing if you do it right on the rugby pitch. Farrells problem for me is that his aggression leads to him shooting out the line to smash the player and leaving a dogleg in defence, means everyone else has to compensate. This is fine if he smashed his man every time but he doesn't.

Not to mention being seemingly easy to wind up and knock off his game, a fan of cheap shots and also bloody lucky that high tackles have been deemed lawful for some reason this 6N. He could already have a couple of yellows and that is potentially game changing stuff.

Anyone able to offer some insight into that lot? Backs look sharpe, have no idea about pack

The No 8 had a good Christmas period.

But in all seriousness, the coach is trying to rediscover France's rugby DNA, rightly in my view, it will take time to click but my guess is this Friday is too early - we, England, may be playing a very different team by the end of the tournament.

trying to rediscover France's rugby DNA

Peut-etre

Well, I am a fan of Foden and watson, and I was not keen on Brown in the early days, but he does a job well. If he needs to behave aggressively to get the most out of his game, then it's fine by me. Armitage? and you think Brown is a ****? He's a complete novice compared to that person AND he's shit anyway!

Armitage is a total bellend - I agree - but he has a grasp of basic skills that Brown never will and has more pace too.

There's behaving aggressively by flattening some annoying opponent in a legal manner (Lewsey) or by shouting at linesmen and running 50yds to shove someone in the back because they haven't released the ball for a lineout (Brown).

These days, fullbacks need to be the first line of attack and pose a proper threat - Ben Smith, Israel Dagg/Folau, Stuart Hogg etc.

Brown is little threat. As Ekul points out he tucks it under one arm, is easy to read and doesn't put people away.

Foden has far more ability although he hasn't looked great this season the couple of times I've seen him. Watson has massive potential as a fullback but doesn't look a natural winger - if anyone listens to Austin Healey....

That French pack is big,slow and not especially destructive in the tight for their bulk. Expect more grinding rugby to break out. 3 weeks for Britz for his red,that was premium brand biccies,none of your tesco own brand orange clubs there.