[Closed] 2013/14 Rugby Thread

Wales are more than capable of losing.
Fiji Italy could be close as Ireland Aus.
I was shocked when NZ got beat by England last year so who knows.

Oh I thought that it was Ireland v SA....in that case I'm going Aussie by 7 and a quick Google shows that the Saffas are playing Scotland....I'm with you a_a 20 plus victory for SA!

I dunno about the others, but based on form, I fully expect NZ to win by 25+ points. England have looked underwhelming and have beaten only piss poor teams.
This is based on a hunch.
AA, we were all surprised, is there anybody out there that thinks England have a chance? Convince me..

Rancid

[img] [/img]

Just watched the ScrumV highlights and discussion of the Wales game and apparently Jon Davies made more meters in 12 minutes before his injury than anyone else in the rest of the team all game 😯

Wales have had one plan for a very long time. With the right players available they can beat anyone. Question is, can they get a more subtle plan B in operation before the 6N?

What does Hook have to do to get a start, be it at 10 or in the centres? Looking at the backs available you feel there is a big lack of depth there... then you realise this guy called Hook is still floating around being massively underused. With players like Beck likely to start there is massive potential for a non-bosh, high skill approach yet perhaps less than 1% chance of a game plan involving playing intelligently.

With the injuries it is also a chance to bring Scott Williams on much in the same way Jon Davies developed in the National set up. Davies didn't look anywhere near international level for his first half dozen games but has improved hugely. The Scarlets tout Williams as the next big thing after Davies, stronger than a prop, quicker than a winger... so lets see it happen 😀

Is Biggar really any better than Priestland? I can see both making the same errors Priestland did against SA 😕 Neither are truely world class. Hmmm...

North in the centres seems a waste just to maintain bosh plan A. Bit of a lack of wingers in Wales too should he switch 😕

Forwards look pretty solid though and maybe Wales will miss Adam less now than ever before? Backs seem to be the main concern but maybe others disagree 😕

10 is an issue in Wales, I would prefer Biggar over Priestland but that maybe be down to him being an Osprey, neither are world class.

Hook at 10 for me. Always wanted to see that. Biggar or Priestland on the bench, and then Hook can move to the centre or 15 if needed. 1/2p can play wing or 15, so there's lots of flexibility that way.

toys19 - Member
... is there anybody out there that thinks England have a chance? Convince me...

If it pisses down, with lightning and hail and everything, the pitch turns into a bog and we are limited to up ya jumper rugby, [b]and [/b]England retain over 60% posession, they have a chance.

The forecast is "Sunny". Arse. I'm with Toys19 on the score, approx 20pts by the AB's - something like 31-12 final score.

The Scarlets tout Williams as the next big thing after Davies, stronger than a prop, quicker than a winger... so lets see it happen

The Scarlets tout every one of their players as bigger, better, faster, etc. Always have. Sometimes they are right, more often they are talking rubbish. Scott Williams is very good, though.

Is Biggar really any better than Priestland?

North in the centres seems a waste just to maintain bosh plan A. Bit of a lack of wingers in Wales too should he switch

And as far as Hook getting a game? He doesn't fit in with Wales' style of play. In fact he doesn't fit in with most teams' style of play which is why he is labelled utility. He can sit on the same bench as Cipriani, Quade Cooper as far as I'm concerned. Exciting to watch simply because he could win or lose the game with one movement.

No denying Williams quality but I feel it could be an opportunity for him to come more to the forefront of the squad much in the same way Jon Davies developed very quickly. Once upon a time the idea of JD getting passed the ball to clear from the 22 caused heart rates in Wales to go up, now he is the very useful left foot option to clear the lines Wales will miss (just one small example of the way in which the National side can turn around aspects of play with the right coaching and new roles in a team).

Priestland has been off form but has been overcoming two massive injuries which is tough. Biggar is no better but no worse really. Priestland does a fair amount in defence too which gets overlooked but at the end of the day neither were going to out boss Steyn. Who know what goes in to making an apparently arbitrary decision 😀 I do feel a bit sorry for Biggar though. Flood/ Farrel isn't so wildly different I suppose

The North talk is that he might switch to the centres mid way through the match whereas, as you say Jon, the ideal is perhaps to keep him on the wing but be used more infield during attacking play. The number of big backs is decreasing with injury so making the most of smart players like Beck and Hook to actually use the few remaining big, strong running backs isn't too illogical, just unlikely to happen 😕

North would be harder to mark if he was coming in on broken phase,rather than lining up at centre every play. (Not that marking someone that size and speed can really be defined as easy)He was under used on Sat,certainly bearing in mind how much damage he is capable of.

Completely agree Duckman!

Who know what goes in to making an apparently arbitrary decision

Hmmm,

- The player who steered the team through the most recent championship win? Whose main fault currently is that his regional team aren't playing particularly well but even when played out of position at 15 managed to look classy?

- Or the obviously talented player who is totally lacking confidence, playing time and fitness?

It's not at all arbitrary to me, but then thankfully I don't have to make these decisions! 😆

edit: Biggar's played 18 caps, lost 7. Priestland has 23, lost 12. It doesn't prove anything of course, just an interesting stat. 😛

North would be harder to mark if he was coming in on broken phase,rather than lining up at centre every play. (Not that marking someone that size and speed can really be defined as easy)He was under used on Sat,certainly bearing in mind how much damage he is capable of.

I have only really seen him against England so I dunno if mine is a fair assessment, but he was vaunted as the new awesome centre and has so far failed to deliver as much as expected, he has not scored against us in recent memory, if at all?. Or to put it another way, he is not as intimidating as he was made out to be, he just seems to be a battering ram. If Shane got the ball I used to hide behind the sofa. Perhaps North still has time to come. (Bet he scores the effen winning try against us in the 6N now)

Toys he's a three test lions tour and grand slam winning WINGER age 21 who has scored about 14 tries in 35 tests. But he has failed to deliver cause he hasnt scored against england! Priceless.

As usual you failed to read anything anyone says and just let your prejudice get in the way. Of course nobody can make a comment about a welsh player unless they are either agreeing with you, welsh, or just you.

I clearly framed my statement with:

I have only really seen him against England so I dunno if mine is a fair assessment

I'm only interested in him if he is a threat to us, so far not.

Compare him with Chris Ashton, who has scored at least twice against Wales, has scored 85 international points in union, 12 international points in league, jointly holds the six nations record for tries in a single tournament (with Shane I think?) and is, by your assessment, crap.

I had faith in Ashton up until about a year ago, I don't think he is that great, nor has he delivered as expected, in fact I hold him in the same regard as North, both been bigged up by their nation and failed to deliver. It does not take any of your fabulous "rugby knowledge" to say that, just a quick google of the facts.

You are such a schoolyard bully. I was trying to join in the conversation and all you can do is shoot people down.You wonder why people get pissed off with you. Go and boil your head.

Common issue; New player with "unique" or "exceptional" skills falls into the international scene, makes unprecedented performances within the first few games, then appears to diminish.

2 things - form and excitement, and the other teams work them out and how to play against them - aka nullified to a degree.

Christ Toys you really need to grow and look at what your saying. Remind me what other 21 yearolds have 35 caps including 3 lions caps and have scored almost a try every other game. Your analysis is like something a 14 year old would come out with. If you want to debate rugby on a rugby thread maybe you should say something sensible rather than come out with the same old jingoistic clap trap. There's many things wrong with welsh rugby but North failing to deliver isnt one of them.

There's F All wrong with North. He's an exceptional player, but like all wingers relies massively on being given opportunities by his team mates so that he can properly utilise his frankly remarkable skill with the ball in hand. Actually a lot of outside centres rely on much the same service, you can see when Manu (who has a similarly exceptional talent) plays well, he's been given the chances.
When either has a quiet game, it's usually not them you need to point the finger at.

We need one of the much maligned refs to help with your two:

"ROLL AWAY"

Your schoolboy metaphor just reinforces the fact that you are a bit of a bully. I don't claim to be an expert, but I want to to join in. Your common response to anyone who doesn't meet your mark really surprises me considering your role as an educator. I pity those kids.

There's F All wrong with North. He's an exceptional player, but like all wingers relies massively on being given opportunities by his team mates so that he can properly utilise his frankly remarkable skill with the ball in hand. Actually a lot of outside centres rely on much the same service, you can see when Manu (who has a similarly exceptional talent) plays well, he's been given the chances.
When either has a quiet game, it's usually not them you need to point the finger at.

Wrecker, this is the kind of response that is informative and interesting, cheers. Would you apply the same analysis to Ashton?

Or maybe you just dont like your idiot comments being questioned are you really that insecure. Would you just prefer me to agree that one of the top wingers in the world who is just 21 and has recently starred in a lions series win hasnt delivered as he hasnt scored against england. Your a joke.

No I would prefer you pointed out what I was missing with out being a supercilious and nasty.

For example, you could have responded to my initial comment about north with something like:

" Ah well toys in games that you admit you have not seen he has done remarkably well, in fact he has scored x tries in y games, but you might imagine he has done well as he has not been fed great ball in the game you watched."

to which I might have replied. "Oh I see".

But instead you just behave like unless everyone who is english thinks like you then he is a scumbag..

Here he is not delivering

Toys he's a three test lions tour and grand slam winning WINGER age 21 who has scored about 14 tries in 35 tests. But he has failed to deliver cause he hasnt scored against england! Priceless.

is this nasty? Bless, I do apologise.

Apology accepted. Thanks.

Wrecker, this is the kind of response that is informative and interesting, cheers. Would you apply the same analysis to Ashton?

My personal opinion is that Ashton has a very good instinct, but it's being coached out of him. He used to be so good at coming in off the wing and taking the ball at pace and running a good angle. We haven't seen him do that recently. I also think he's mentally fickle, by that I mean that he seems to struggle to focus and if his head isn't right then he's...well....shit! I honestly think he'd benefit from some sports psychology like Murray did.

Coached out of him? Like they are teaching him to do something else?
He does seem mentally fragile, I know what you mean.

Ashton is a good finisher, very good but he doesnt appear able to tackle. He has what looks like the league habit of going high and waiting for help. Its common in league as offload prevention is vital. It reminds me of Iestyn Harris playing for Wales, compare how he tackles with someone like 1/2p who goes very low. Shane used to do the same as Ashton but he had the advantage of good positioning which Ashton doesnt have which makes it worse.

Coached out of him? Like they are teaching him to do something else?

Hmm I see. I noticed that Farrel puts in lot of higher tackles too, but I wonder if this is not due to something else.

Wrecker, I understand now. Like they have been working hard on unionising him that they might have killed the good parts that came from league.
Hmm I shall give him another chance. (although I have little hope for sat)

Oh and attack wise he worked well off Flood who isnt being picked at the moment.

...I think you know my opinion of Farrell by now....

Yer, as well as me not having faith in him, I find his temper unforgivable, last year he did some really petty stuff.

Who is coming through to replace Farrel? (as if that would ever happen anyway with Dad on the coaching squad..) I liked the look of Burns last time I saw him play.

Farrel is a decent player. Biggar was an insufferable **** at that age too.

Do you think he can guide us through to the WC? What about Ford is he any good? I dunno, when I see Carter it just kinda blows your mind the plays he makes, I'm not sure Farrel can even approach that kind of rugby brain.

I respect AF engough to think that there's no nepotism. As for the next 10, who knows? It's not looking like Ford is going to be any good so it has to be Burns. I suspect that Burns could be a very good player, but he's behind a poor pack at Glaws at the minute, so may struggle to win the shirt.

I think out of Flood, Farrel, Priestland and Biggar the two not getting picked are the better players.

Despite me moaning about Farrel he does seem to stop people on way or another, I remember Burns missing a few tackles.

Thats a trap for me AA as I have no idea who Wales have picked, is it Biggar? I don't like Priestland, so he must be good.

edit-wrong. They picked Priestland. Have they named the team for Argentina yet?

Delayed naming the team to see if Liam Williamz head clears AFAIK.

Biggar was an insufferable **** at that age too

😀 True! But strangely it disappeared almost at once between seasons a year or two back. Someone must of sat him down and had a good word 🙂

Watching the NZ France game and comparing to the other matches going on at the same time it is quite obvious how well the NZ 1-15 can read a game and pick the best option on instinct. Quite a contrast to the Welsh insistent "earn the right to go wide" even when an overlap might be on and the English coaching out of playing on instinct as others have referred to with Ashton etc...

Farrel isn't shit, he's just not a 10. He could make a very handy 12, but I don't think he'll ever have the nous required for a great 10.

a_a arguing again, who'd have thunk it 🙂

10 situation is pretty depressing for England (and those Welshists too!) Farrell is probably the safest bet of an average bunch. Ford...no way. He is so inconsistent that it's unreal. Burns...hard to say, he reminds me of Hook and Cips-just as likely to throw an opposition winger the ball in his own 22 as he is to do anything useful.

Bring back St Johnny I say. Otherwise stick Flood at 10 and Farrell at 12 and see how that works out. Afterall that is where Farrell starts for Sarries when little Charlie is fit.

As for Wales, who knows....maybe Henson is the answer 🙂

To be fair to both Wales and England, the 10 shirt were big ones to fill. I'd be going Flood at 10 with a mind to bring Burns game on and Farrell sharing 12 duties with Burrell. I'm convinced that Biggar is better than Priestland but admittedly I've not seen them play much club rugby.