Injector balance seems pretty normal.
Signs of a sticky EGR valve can be -
At light load/cruising where you'll get a slight surging feeling.
It'll cause brief hesistation when you go from light throttle to full throttle.
Absolute lack of power.
Starts but quickly stops.
However a few different algorythms in the ECU monitor EGR performance, so faults usually get flagged up pretty quick.
Yep. I'm not sure whether the fuel pressure spikes are a symptom or the cause. I am sure that they are not good.
The 3rd piston deactivator could have a sticky solenoid. Would the car run with the 3rd piston deactivator disconnected?
Plenty of power. Everyone who drives it comments that for a Berlingo, it shifts... That's not my driving style though.
I can always accelerate out of the issue, but this is leading to me driving faster that I'd like to, or in to low a gear.
sounds the same as my missus 307, after trying ALL of the above it turned out to be a blocked cat.
Personally I'd doubt the 3rd piston cut-out sticking would cause a prolonged issues i.e. more than a single glitch.
I'd actually have to go and find a manual to check how the 3rd piston cut-out actually works, as I've never seen any problems with them. I think they're a simple on/off set-up, which simply holds the pump chamber inlet valve open, so there's not really much to go wrong.
I can't honestly tell you what would happen if you unplug it on a PSA though. I know Mercs will go into limp home mode immediately and severly limit revs if it's disconnected. The risk is the fuel system over-pressurises, however there is a pressure limiting valve, which will protect things, but may cause a fault to be stored or the engine to cut-out. It all depends on how PSA decideed to programe the ECU, as even though it's a standard Bosch system, every manufacturer programmes things differently.
A blocked cat with surging, should cause a corresponding surging in boost pressure, plus I'd expect a lack of power at higher revs, possibly combined with more smoke than normal.
Again, somebody competent looking at live data should be able to highlight the area of the problem.
Further update:
I've been into Citroen for a diagnostics session. I'm £150 lighter, and once again no fault codes were found. There is swarf in the fuel filter, and the mechanic reckons the fuel pump is breaking up, so new (or reconditioned (more likely)) fuel pump will be required. I'll get the timing belt done for the second time too. If I splash the cash on this it had better be the end of it...
I had cruise control activated too. Sometimes the car is surging (in terms of speed) noticeably when on CC. Perhaps a vacuum problem?
Depending how mechanically minded you are, the fuel pump isn't that difficult to change. I did mine on the drive just following the Haynes manual. Hardest bit was locking the flywheel to get the nut holding the auxillary pully on undone. Once you have that off, the timeing belt comes off easily enough and the rest is simple.
Just take your time 😆
My 1st thought when reading this was the clutch switch; when I 1st got an HDi, it always felt a bit hesitant after changing gear; I read up on it and clutch switch is known to cause a lag/flatspot.
Disconnected it and instantly noticed an improvement; simple to do, so well worth a try.
I've had the clutch switch out. No difference. An absolute **** to refit. The switch is awkward, the connector almost impossible.
Isn't the pump after the filter, if its breaking up won't it of blocked the injectors and filled the common rail full of crap. Low mileage replacement engine would be cheaper.
I had a golf do this to me. Loved that car but the day I part exed it was an huge weight off my shoulders. Multiple garage trips and fees for fault reading, changing numerous components, never got to the bottom of it.
At what point does the aggravation stop being worth it?
Got to agree with pictonroad on this one.
It's a 9 year old Berlingo with 130,000 miles on the clock. Just move it on and buy another - they're not exactly rare.
You're daft spending all this time and money on it.
on the other hand - its a slight dead spot. just drive slightly slower or faster till it gives up totally.
as above i doubt i would be sticking a new fuel pump in.its well known that once they start to break down they like to enter the engine and cause all sorts of trouble - if i could find a known good engine im more likely to drop one of them in if its a tidy body and all the suspension/gearbox is good.
you paid 150 quid for diagnostics ? HOLY SHIT.
i bought lexia and peugeot planet plus the box for 60 quid to program some keys after being quoted 128 quid plus vat each and i wanted to do 3 for one car and 2 for another. - still my u480 picks up the codes in the injection system better than peugeot planet or my mates modus - he was a bit miffed that my 12 quid machine could see stuff his 3grand one didnt 😀
If you have metal particles in the fuel filter this will be from the low pressure pump mounted in the fuel tank.
This was an easy fix on my 406 as you lift the rear bench seat up, move the carpet to the side and there is a plastic disk covering an access hole to the top of the fuel tank. Unplug the electrical connectors and fuel lines, unscrew the locating ring and lift the fuel pump out. As per Haynes refitting is the reverse of removal 😀
When the fuel pump was on the way out it did cause some running issues but mostly it was a case of giving it a thump with a piece of wood to coax it into life when first starting up.
Edit: be careful when changing your fuel filter, very easy for those particles to end up on the wrong side of the filter and they then end up in your high pressure fuel pump or injectors, not cheap.
remove the whole filter housing and clean out thoroughly, fit the new filter then refit to the car.
Theoretically it can come from the HP pump as the fuel goes back into the tank from the fuel rail (through a cooler) and they could then pass through the tank pump back up to the filter.
But I would normally go with the tank pump being the suspect one first and I don't know if there is any brass bits in the HP pump.
you could put a small clear inline filter on the return pipe just before the tank to see if it's the HP pump or just swap out the tank pump for a new one and see if that does the trick. Fully clean out the diesel filter too (carefully).
There is a return from the injectors to the fuel filter. I would do a test on the injectors and check how much they bypass and you should see some of the diesel and if there is any rubbish in there. Personally I wouldn't pump any more money into a car with 130k on it.
There is no lift pump in the tank. This Berlingo runs the Siemens system, and it is only the Bosch pumps that use an in-tank lift pump.
The injectors currently seem fine, and were tested a couple of weeks ago and were all within specification.
hello there happened upon this forum by accident recognise your symptoms from a couple of hdis I have worked on in the past cant remember if it put up a code or not but I traced the fault by analysing live data on the lexia at low engine revs when aproaching junctions etc this problem showed up as very erratic fuel pressure readings which I knew were not the actual readings of the rail I suspected a wiring issue either corrosion or arcing of the fuel rail pressure wiring wiggling the wires with the car running showed the fault .rail pressure sensor sits under fuel rail with a 3 wire connector this is hard to unclip!this wire is a short patch wire and is next joined about 6" straight down clipped just above the sump unclip this as well remove wirng harness and inspect it hopefully you will find the insulation of the wiring has rubbed through and intermittently shorting on starter motor. Get a new 1 or repair it with heat shrink and new plastic conduit hope this helps cheers
Thanks. I will check. I know where the fuel pressure sensor is, and I know that there is no way I can get it unplugged with my hand. I will need to find a slender armed assistant.
If this is the answer, then it is the equivalent of finding the Holy Grail. Thanks.
hi
had a similar problem on the wifes 1.6tdci (pug engine) on her fiesta.
limp mode, lack of power...
turned out the fuel filter i had changed had a hair line crack in the plastic and was letting fuel out causing air in the system
changed it for another one, sorted.
maybe worth a look?!
In case i missed it in an earlier post, have you hade a look at the c4 owners forum on the net ? they mention similar faults on the c4 1.6 hdi and some of the other Citroens too. The C4 diesels sometimes get problems with blocked fuel filters whixh can cause the on-board diagnostics to throw up an "anti-pollution system faulty" message, which sounds like the c4 equivalent of your problem....the filter about £40 to change so it may be a good place to start. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Thanks for the tips, but it is definitely not the fuel filter.
I found when I have done this before the best way is to get a piece of stiff metal rod about 18" long bend a right angle on it about 3/4" long and file a flat edge on it to get underneath the clip then push it down this will also help pulling the wiring back up through as you know access is a little restricted!it pays also to put electrical grease on the connectors before refitting and make sure the rubber gaskets on the connectors are in good condition as both the grease and the gaskets help prevent micro vibrations opening up the electrical connectors.
An update. I have bunged half a can of JLM EGR cleaner through the intake manifold. I was expecting to see clouds of guff out the exhaust. Instead, nothing. Massively underwhelming...
However, after a few days the effect seems to have been massive. An apparent cure. I can't even get the hesitation if I try.
The last fill I bunged a 1:200 mix of JASC FB 2-stroke in with the diesel. Maybe I'll get cleaner, quieter running, maybe better mpg, maybe nothing...
Good result!
Well mrs tr reported similar symptoms on our newest blingo.
Its a 1.9 dw8 but iirc shares a very similar bodged up egr valve.
My pug is blocked off because they are a shit design.
Didn get round to the blingo yet. Tonight i had a drive and it was like a colapsed fuel filter or colapsed boost hose (but nae turbo) just before 2k rpm at about 1/8th throttle..... Right when the egrs doing its job. Only it couldnt due to crazy big lumps of carbon i just cleaned out with degreaser and a toothbrush. Absolutel disgustig job. Must get round to blocking it off and decatting
Much better for the engine. Ill save the planet by doing less miles and changing my car less;)
Test drove after cleaning egr. Hesitaion totally gone at all throttle position
No doubt that can of stuff has helped but i suggest pullin the inlet off the egr ad seeinhpw much gunk build up there is- put a glove on first that stuff doesnt wash out for toffee
The reason I was sceptical about it being the EGR was that when I installed a blanking plate, the hose into the inlet manifold wasn't that bad. A sooty finger certainly, but nowhere near constricted or blocked. The blanking plate caused limp mode, so I had to remove it.
The EGR bungs in soot, and the crankcase breather oily, sticky fumes. One or the other would be bearable, but both together are madness.
Aye the metal pipe not to bad for me but around the flap in the intak was all bunged up and the flap wouldnt move under light vacuum. Hence why it ok when you boot it
I guess the 2.0 has more sophisticated electrics than the 1.9
I get better fuel economy and the engine feels smoother/freer to rev when driving without it
I don't think I can blank on a 2.0hdi with a Siemens ECU. Apparently you can blank the EGR and delete the EGR from the ECU on the Bosch systems, but with the Siemens blanking results in limp mode.
Ah ok no experiance with the 2.0 my self.
I need to take my inlet manifold off too clean that out:/
