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The same as what you do with your teeth, more or less.
Is it bollocks.
A bottle of chocolate milk after most training sessions (12+ hrs swimming) for my daughter - sometimes a protein enhanced version. Sometime just a Nesquick home made one (whole fat milk). Also allow a 'treat' milky coffee type drink some mornings (hoping she stays awake in school after training). Also like little packs of chicken satay snacks (Aldi, who also has a decent chocolate milk shake). Also fig biscuits and also individual microwave sponge puddings covered in custard - it's not exactly the recommended food for an athlete but we were also more concerned with just eating enough and a speedy recovery ready for the next day.
He’s active and he’s growing well, what’s the problem?
Pretty much my thoughts, the OP is begging the question. Opinion isn't relevant, if there's a genuine concern for his welfare then speak to a dietitian.
Teenage lads are dustbins. I was, and I was (and am) tiny. The Boy recently turned 29, is as skinny as me but 6'3" and has an appetite which would shame Mr Creosote; if I'm cooking a meal for the family I count him twice.
If you've found something that he likes and will smash through it then... make more of it? Batch cook, it's as easy to make eight portions of spag bol as it is to make one. Stock up the freezer with home-cooked ready meals. There's plenty of bolognaise-adjacent meals like chilli and curry. Rice, pasta, noodles...
If he's eating too much (perceived or actual) crap then, well, who's buying it?
Teach him the basics of nutrition and then show him how to cook.
Start with one meal a week, his choice. Progress from there.
Is it bollocks.
I wish people wouldn't post angry retorts like this. If you know better, please take the time to explain, we all love a bit of science here. Otherwise you're just coming across as a bit of an arse.
I wish people wouldn’t post angry retorts like this.
Nonsense.
Both quotes from you?
I apologise and I realise that was a bit more tetchy than was appropriate. However I would point out that I went on to post a couple more paragraphs in an attempt to explain my position. I'm not an expert, so any further information gratefully received.
Is it bollocks.
You can't break down fiber molecules in a blender, although you can break down their structures. So it's still the same benefit for gut microbiome, you're just not pooing out whole pieces of celery.
You can massively overconsume on sugar though if you're getting your 5-portions of fruit and veg a day just with fruit and just in a smoothie.
So saying that smoothies "processing it, which removes a lot of the benefits." is subjective. If he's skinny and doing a lot of exercise then it's probably not a problem. If he was 20stone and diabetic then smoothying fruit probably is part of the problem.
However the amount of activity he is doing, is not sustainable on eating this kind of crap.
Is there actually any evidence of this? Struggling with training/recovery, struggling to put on muscle, putting on fat, etc?
I think there's three ways to look at supplements:
Addressing a known deficiency in your diet (because consuming an optimal amount maybe isn't practical, macros like protein and carbs, micros like vitamins and Omega fats).
Supplementation because the science backs it up (Creatine, BCAA, etc)
Supplements that are basically drugs (ecdysterone, caffeine, etc. Same as the 2nd category in some cases but there's a measurable advantage to consuming far more than a normal amount).
What’s your explanation Kramer?
Oh dear, I do hope Kramer hasn’t inadvertently answered his own topic.
You can’t break down fiber molecules in a blender, although you can break down their structures. So it’s still the same benefit for gut microbiome, you’re just not pooing out whole pieces of celery.
I suppose mashing it up with saliva and its associated enzymes might make a difference to how it's digested later. I've read that fructose breaks down quickly in to sucrose and fructose if you juice fruit, but I'm thinking of the kind of smoothie you make then drink immediately. Also, there's the question of how long you blend it for. If you just zap it enough to be drinkable, there's probably a difference between blending it for ages til it's totally smooth liquid.
Also, as said fruit is inherently quite sugary, and in my example I could eat far more fruit in a smoothie than if I were eating it the traditional way, but this may not be a good thing in my case.
So saying that smoothies “processing it, which removes a lot of the benefits.” is subjective.
My understanding is that with a smoothie your uptake is faster, with actual food which you can chew your digestive system has to work for it so that, ahem, smooths it out.
I Am Not A Dietitian.
Kramer does not seem super keen to return to explain what is obviously a firmly held understanding. Not one I'm familiar with.
Protein is clearly important but there are still loads of myths, over simplifications and over emphasis on certain traditional protein sources (namely meat) and amounts required doing the rounds. The current youth (mainly boys but girls too) have a totally changed attitude to body image and bulking up than most of us old folk had at their age. It seems to have unearthed a whole bunch of surprisingly traditional half truths and myths coming out of the mouths of semi literate influencers and doing the rounds enough times that they've stuck. Some pretty worrying new attitudes to 'supplements' too. Personally, as the parent of a 14 year old boy right now, that's the obsession just over the horizon for you that I'd be most worried about.
The issues with smoothies:
- By liquidising everything it empties out of your stomach quicker than if you’d eaten it as whole fruit and veg, so it’s less satiating.
- By liquidising you’re accelerating the digestion of the complex carbs from the fruit and veg, so leading to a quicker and shorter energy hit.
- By liquidising you’re breaking down the structure of the fibre, and are so likely to be removing some of the benefit of the wiping action as it moves down your bowel.
- By liquidising you’re removing the need to chew at all, meaning that larger amounts of calories can be taken on in a much shorter time frame. Also by removing the need to chew you’re probably removing one of the mechanisms that contributes to satiety and so are likely to end up with a larger energy intake.
- By liquidising you’re releasing more of the intracellular sugars than you would by chewing, so you’re more likely to get a rapid rise in blood sugar.
I don’t think smoothies are awful, they’re just not that good, and certainly (IMV) not as healthy as their proponents state.
I apologise and I realise that was a bit more tetchy than was appropriate.
Thank you. Wine had been taken and I also did not reply as my best self.
A mates lad was a serious national level swimmer - age group champion and European squad one year.
He pretty much went through his teenage years attached to tupperware bowls of pasta or rice with assorted fish/chicken and veggies chucked in, flavoured to taste.
we just let him eat what he wanted. and it worked. if you fridge/cupboards are full of good stuff then all should be fine.
This is the approach I’d take. Let him eat what he wants when he’s hungry, and model a healthy approach to eating (guilt-free, everything in moderation, including moderation itself) yourselves and in what you serve him.
i would just like to add, i remember one of his fave meals was a tin of baked beans with 4 scrambled eggs mixed in.
still one of his faves to this day. good carbs and protein in one bowl.
There could be a difference between someone's energy requirements and what their gut is capable of digestion. I can digest a LOT, apparently more than most people. Some people's athletic output might be limited by the amount they can digest. I have a mate who's a better cyclist than me but he can only go for about 4-5hrs because he can't really eat on the bike or during a ride. I can, which allowed me to plod for 18.5hrs on a long ride a few years back. I also tolerate carb powders and the like pretty well.
I can digest a LOT, apparently more than most people.
Do you mean that you're capable of absorbing more grammes of carbohydrate per hour than other people while exercising or that you have some sort of super-human ability to eke additional benefits out of the same foodstuffs?
I heard somewhere, possible on a Zoe podcast, that there was a diff between home made smoothies and readymade ones because of the much greater extent to which readymade ones had been smoothened. So you need to lok at what type of smoothie is being tested when looking at results for smoothie consumption.
My morning smoothie contains beetroot, carrot, parsnip, chard etc. as well as fruit. There is no way I would be munching my way through the raw root veg (well, possibly the carrot).
I think I can eat more than a lot of other people to begin with, I can digest it more easily particularly when riding, and I can eat lots of simple carbs without having gastro-intestinal distress or just getting full.
Point is that people's guts are all different, so saying 'my lad ate 3kg of pasta a day so you should too' might not help someone else's kid.
Adding milk powder to hot choc/chai latte works for me (40 but with CFS) and the active 11 year old (club hockey, rookies, school netball/PE, weekend adventures). Easy to get down, cheap, effective. Definitely helps with recovery.
The kid is good at self regulating what she eats, if she's hungry she eats if not she doesn't. Tend not to worry what she eats between meals as we ensure that she gets a good breakfast and dinner at home, and a hot school meal that she enjoys. Skinny as a rake but fitness is steadily improving.
My morning smoothie contains beetroot, carrot, parsnip, chard etc
Mm, sounds delish!
By liquidising everything it empties out of your stomach quicker than if you’d eaten it as whole fruit and veg, so it’s less satiating.
By liquidising you’re accelerating the digestion of the complex carbs from the fruit and veg, so leading to a quicker and shorter energy hit.
By liquidising you’re breaking down the structure of the fibre, and are so likely to be removing some of the benefit of the wiping action as it moves down your bowel.
By liquidising you’re removing the need to chew at all, meaning that larger amounts of calories can be taken on in a much shorter time frame. Also by removing the need to chew you’re probably removing one of the mechanisms that contributes to satiety and so are likely to end up with a larger energy intake.
By liquidising you’re releasing more of the intracellular sugars than you would by chewing, so you’re more likely to get a rapid rise in blood sugar.
I think that's looking at it from a "I need to diet" perspective, the OP is looking at it from "I need more calories" perspective.
In the OP's case it's a benefit of a load of calories (+ good stuff) in an easily digested form, not a drawback.
I can digest a LOT, apparently more than most people.
I'm veggie, and so was the person coaching me. They were amazed when they saw I was actually able to eat that many beans/and pulses, typically averaging 2-3 tins a day (e.g. beans on toast for breakfast, lentil Bolognese for lunch, chickpea curry for diner and thinks like tandoori chickpeas for snacks). To the point they suggested making sure I took vitamins/minerals at other times of the day as there's various ways that they can apparently inhibit the absorption of minerals. In my case I could probably do strength or endurance sports without much supplementing (I'd be better with, but I could hit sensible numbers for macros just on veg). I'd probably struggle to do anything that required strength within weight categories or without the endurance aspect as I couldn't eat that much protein and stay lean* without spending hours on the bike.
*this is hypothetical, I'm not lean
So yea, "what supplements" is a very poorly defined question.
It's a bit of a shock when you get to your mid forties and realise you can't just guzzle whatever you want anymore.
sob...
Adding milk powder to hot choc/chai latte works for me
Why add powder rather than, well, milk? (Genuine question)
It’s a bit of a shock when you get to your mid forties and realise you can’t just guzzle whatever you want anymore.
sob…
I hit puberty early and then it was game over for my metabolism by 20 😂
Really wish I'd discovered proper gym training back then rather than later in life.
"i would just like to add, i remember one of his fave meals was a tin of baked beans with 4 scrambled eggs mixed in.
still one of his faves to this day. good carbs and protein in one bowl."
Would not want to follow him into a lift.....
Why add powder rather than, well, milk? (Genuine question)
It's in addition to the milk, it's just a cheap way to add a little more protein while adding a nice creaminess.