Stanton Bikes Set To Return, With Dan at the Helm?

Awesome news.

Fingers crossed, will be great to see them pull through.

whoop whoop!

Awesome news.

Love my Sherpa 🙂

Dan at the Helm?

Nah, he prefers Fox 36's...

Nah, he prefers Fox 36’s…

Don't forget your coat.

I wish "Stanton the New Co" success.
I hope that Stanton suppliers haven't fared too badly from the administration, otherwise restarting a supply chain may be difficult and secondly I hope company cost structure and demand are better matched moving forward to avoid a repeat.

Great news, All the best to Dan and everyone at Stanton 2.0.
We need some business joy news.

Any news of the creditors and whether they have been or are likely to get paid?

This is great news... hopefully it all works out!! 🙂

Good news. Hopefully the Sherpa Gen 4 with slightly shorter seat tube is on its way then as that's what I was hoping for before this unfortunate turn of events came about. All the best Dan.

I hope it all works out for them

I'm in need of a HT frame, might put that off for a few days 🤔

Pleased to see this, good news for the workers. And maybe I'll be able to get gen.2 mech hanger/dropouts at last🤔

Interested to know how this works, whether anyone is going to lose out from this. Would seem strange and somewhat unfair if Dan can simply restart with a load of debt or obligations wiped off.

I'm a Switch9er rider and just ant to put it out there that Dan and others from the company have been really good at answering queries over on the FB owner page and that even the administrators (in my experience) have got back to emails and shipped stuff to me, it was tough times all around - but here's to a great 2023 for Stanton!

When is the Stanton Picolax V1 being released? I'd be up for one.

whether anyone is going to lose out from this. Would seem strange and somewhat unfair if Dan can simply restart with a load of debt or obligations wiped off.

OTOH, if he doesn’t restart they don’t make any money from future business with the new Stanton. I completely agree that these things always seem a bit off though

Good news for Dan, happy that he's been able to get his brand back.

I completely agree that these things always seem a bit off though

It does tend to suggest that someone has been stiffed. That seems to be the most common outcome from my previous experience with these things. Maybe some clever re-financing has been made possible but that can often be delaying the inevitable (sometimes larger) crash.

I've seen suppliers and contractors shafted many times when businesses have gone into administration then, a few months later, continue to trade with the original owner in place.
I worked for one of those businesses that went through this process. I left shortly afterwards as I couldn't stand the sight of the owners (a rich family) carrying on as if nothing had happened. Well it had happened... they had cleared their debts whilst others were left skint and with their small businesses broken.

I really hope this is not the case here. I'm also looking to buy a nice steel hardtail this Spring, but will need some convincing before Stanton go back on the list.

I worked for one of those businesses that went through this process. I left shortly afterwards as I couldn’t stand the sight of the owners (a rich family) carrying on as if nothing had happened. Well it had happened… they had cleared their debts whilst others were left skint and with their small businesses broken.

Unfortunately that's exactly how Limited companies work. See Rangers football club as a prime example.

I'm really hoping this works out.

If the plan is to wipe the debt and continue as normal - surely the people and companies that have been stiffed would be the exact same that they would then need to re-engage with in order to continue the business? So I am guessing/hoping that wouldn't be the case. I'd imagine that credit terms and cash flow would make that a precarious point from which to re-start?

My wife worked for a well known beverage company that also went into administration and was bought out - wiping the debt. But in fairness to the (very wealthy) owner - who did stay at the helm, the company then spent the next few years paying back those creditors that were burned. Too late for some, unfortunately.....

I’ve seen suppliers and contractors shafted many times when businesses have gone into administration then, a few months later, continue to trade with the original owner in place.
I worked for one of those businesses that went through this process. I left shortly afterwards as I couldn’t stand the sight of the owners (a rich family) carrying on as if nothing had happened. Well it had happened… they had cleared their debts whilst others were left skint and with their small businesses broken.

I really hope this is not the case here. I’m also looking to buy a nice steel hardtail this Spring, but will need some convincing before Stanton go back on the list.

Worked out ok for RA bikes Just change the company trading name.

Who could forget good old Sick bicycles , I think you know how this works and to a degree depends on the integrity of the person-people behind it. There's a well know caravan company that must have changed trading name as many times as years its been in existence, rotating directors, its a loophole that allows the less scrupulous to shaft their suppliers.

It’s a tricky one this - as Stanton make some nice bikes and wouldn’t want a small manufacturer to fail.

My inital thought is if there is the money to buy it out of administration then why wasn’t that capital injected to pay creditors and avoid going into administration in the first place?

Presumably the debts were too big and so someone has done badly out of administration - losing a chunk of money they were owed.

My inital thought is if there is the money to buy it out of administration then why wasn’t that capital injected to pay creditors and avoid going into administration in the first place?

Because sometimes that money isn't enough under normal trading conditions.

This is business though and big businesses cost a certain amount of 'bad-debt' into their financial planning.

I'm in the print-trade and there's always some pre-pack deal in the trade press. The big paper merchants and consumables suppliers continue to trade with them though.

I've been there myself - one week a machine supplier was repossessing equipment from one premises. A few weeks later they were installing new machinery in another premises.

This is awesome news. Built my first Stanton (Switch9er) last year and I love it. I let Mrs Wachowchow have a little go on it and now, in full on Harold and Hilda style, she wants one. When I buy one, I want to buy it from Dan and Co. so looking forward to the dust settling.

My inital thought is if there is the money to buy it out of administration then why wasn’t that capital injected to pay creditors and avoid going into administration in the first place?

The big investment may well have been under a tax-relief scheme. In order to write it off and claim back the investment against tax for the investor, the company must fail - ie enter administration. That would allow the investor to claim back their investment against their own tax bills, clearing the bulk of the companies debt without losses (other than to the country as a whole) for the creditor.

Thats just speculation, but my point is that administration doesn't necessarily mean (many) creditors got shafted.

Interesting. What I find odd, is if it didn't work first time and got in to financial difficulty, how will it work now? Unless they make a lot more sales, then surely the exact same thing will happen again.

I think one down fall of stanton and probably many businesses is the increased costs. When I first bought my gen 1 Switchback I think it was £500 which I think was acceptable.

I sold that and wanted a gen 2 however prices had gone up so much that they reached a point where to me it was over priced and not good value so I bought a different brand for much cheaper.

Being in the trade of supplying something for people's hobby will always be the first place people stop spending. Although manufacturing costs have gone up, the price increases to the customer reach a point where people just won't buy it, then sales crash and the business fails.

What's different this time round to make it succeed I wonder.

I notice specialized have in the last week slashed massive amounts off a lot of ebikes such puts them back in the same price bracket as 3 years ago.

Hopefully we are seeing people power reign in these astronomical inflation increases we've been hit with.
If no one ism buying an ebike that is 8k ( that used to be 6k) then the company either have to lower the retail price of their product or go out of business.

Quite a discussion going on over at Pinkbike on this whole situation.

Slightly surprised there's not a bit more on here about it.

Ok? What do you want to discuss?

Sure, apparently there was a £2.1m debt according to someone who reads more on companies house than i do... And an investor who is potentially £1m out of pocket...

I just struggle with how it's all OK that someone somewhere is losing out on a LOT of money...

There's also the other bit above of 

Interesting. What I find odd, is if it didn’t work first time and got in to financial difficulty, how will it work now? Unless they make a lot more sales, then surely the exact same thing will happen again.

Apparently they were as i say £2m in debt, but turnover was nothing like that, so how would you ever expect to recoup the debt and clear it ?

If this were any other company than a bicycle company that many on here love, there would be a completely different perspective on it ?

I've never met Dan and i'm sure he's a top bloke as people say... but lets say if this were Giant who'd done the same... would the forum still be on their side ?

Hopefully we are seeing people power reign in these astronomical inflation increases we’ve been hit with.
If no one ism buying an ebike that is 8k ( that used to be 6k) then the company either have to lower the retail price of their product or go out of business.

But the problem is that inflation is permanent, unless we get significant deflation, why would it go down again? That all said we are seeing deflation in the bike industry - supply chain pricing is going downwards, which is nice.

And an investor who is potentially £1m out of pocket…

Investments can go down as well as up.

I just struggle with how it’s all OK

I struggle to GAF. The person or persons who have made a bad investment wound up on the loosing side of it. I think it's pretty well understood that if you want to make a small fortune in the bike business you should start with a large one?

But the problem is that inflation is permanent, unless we get significant deflation, why would it go down again?

I think we're in a bit of an unusual situation in that the RATE of inflation is going down (as expected), and there's actually potential for prices to fall again if and when energy prices subside further (and therefore costs hopefully fall across the board).

I'm not an economist, but this doesn't seem unreasonable, does it?

an investor who is potentially £1m out of pocket…

I just struggle with how it’s all OK that someone somewhere is losing out on a LOT of money…

The investor does seem to have taken a bath and I have sympathy for them, but it was their business decision to put £1m into a niche steel bike company - and they must have heard that old joke about "how do you make a small fortune in the bike industry?".

They're not laughing now obvs.

Del - Snap!

Apparently they were as i say £2m in debt, but turnover was nothing like that, so how would you ever expect to recoup the debt and clear it ?

That debt will remain with the old company, this Stanton is completely new remember - if a tad similar looking

I just struggle with how it’s all OK that someone somewhere is losing out on a LOT of money…

Companies fail sometimes. Extending credit to a company or investing in a company always involve risk. 🤷‍♂️

Sounds the same as dodgy double glazing companies or dodgy building firms that go bust, but then open up the next day in their wife's name and the people who got shafted can't get their money back.

No, not quite like that ^.  There is a pretty comprehensive explanation of the situation in the documents filed at Companies House.

No, not quite like that ^.  There is a pretty comprehensive explanation of the situation in the documents filed at Companies House.

Can you break it down a bit better for people who can''t really grasp that sort of info... i just see a jumble of words in that sort of thing.

What a piss take..... I really feel for those who have been shafted while the ones who allowed the business, through their own actions and decisions, to get so far into debt get to just 'have another bash'.......

I know it is all not so simple but it does leave a sour taste and discolours the brand. I mean 2.1 million quid?! How do you even get that far into debt before thinking 'hang on, this is out of control, we ain't never going to be able to pay that back'....... Say you make 300 quid on a frame, that's 7000 frames just to pay the debt before running costs and all other outgoings.....

Just seems like bad business in, admittedly, a very tricky climate but it shouldn't have been allowed to run so seemingly far out of control only then for the balance to be reset do you can try again while others get shafted.

Says me, with no particular knowledge of the ins and outs of the business/personal situations/anything.

Well I only skimmed through out of nosey interest and I have no great understanding of these matters but I read it as… There is one major investor who sees the company is in trouble.  The directors don’t agree on a way to continue and this investor takes the decision to cut their (eye watering to me) losses and the company is put into administration.  Dan didn’t want it to go that way and is now trying to retrieve the situation.  I assume he believes it can be done and I guess we’ll see in due course