Don’t worry Orange fans, lots of other bike firms are struggling, allegedly Forbidden, Niner, Cotic, Santa Cruz. The SRAM/Zyro suppliers haven’t helped allegedly by changing terms of payment for components from quarterly to a year, and upfront payment. The latter is certainly not going to help anyone.
. I also wonder if they didn’t (unfairly) suffer from a part of their demographic of buyers having become older and gradually migrating to other brands or having stopped riding altogether
More likely getting older and buying a decent spec ebike for the same pice as a similar specced mtb. Definitely see less than I used to on the trails these days, still have a crush but rarely use it and wouldn't be looking at them now, it will be a shame if they fold tho
I suspected something when they had their recent sale. The thinly veiled references to some “more mainstream manufacturers” being in trouble was a bit of a clue too.
I’d also heard they’d lost their way over the past few years. If your reputation is for being bombproof you can’t afford for welds to split.
I’ve never owned one, but I’ve ridden one a couple of times and enjoyed them.
It’s a shame, for the jobs lost, for the loss of a big name in the history of the sport, and for a loss of diversity in bikes too.
I don't mind how they look and the performance isn't bad, but the value for money was truly awful. £2,200 for a made-in-taiwan hardtail alu frame with deore and bottom-end rockshox forks is too much when vitus are pushing out the same thing for half the money (all at rrp).
halifaxpete
Full MemberI think my old 2014 Five29 was ahead of its time, perhaps a little short by modern standards but would still hold its own today!
Damn right, it was one of the very first really good long travel 29ers, out of the bigger brands only Trek had anything as good. And no bugger bought it! They always seemed to struggle to carry on the Five popularity into a 29er, but at the same time Alpine fans didn't seem to want it either,maybe because it was a Five? They ended up renaming it and selling it unchanged for about 4 or 5 years IIRC and just basically repositioned what it was for
Bigger Oranges always = better Oranges imo. My 224 Evo was an absolute museum piece but it was so fun to ride.
That's brutal. From a business viewpoint, why on Earth do they have such a convoluted range? 30+ different models when it should be about 6 (E-Patriot, Alpine, Five, P7, Crush, RX9), that's a heinous amount of tooling and jigs to be keeping track of and switching between all the time. On the face of it pricing doesn't look too bad, bit more than a Cotic, bit less than a Curtis, but crikey that's a lot of models.
.
I hope they pull through, way back when I had a Prophet my buddy had a Five, the debates about which bike was the better one were endless. The next 12 months are looking to be just as brutal as 2023.
This was our first trip to a Fort William WC.
Orange - a big part of the history of UK mountain biking.
Bit disappointed by the negativity on this thread. The employees will be going to be wondering how to pay the mortgage/rent and feed the family
Negativity towards the product doesn’t mean people don’t have sympathy towards those (non-senior decision makers*) losing their jobs.
*probs them too tbh
Always had a soft spot for them after spending my first proper wages on a C16R. Although clearly not that soft as I’ve never bought another, the Five era passed me by (either not riding or couldn’t afford) and it’s just not appealed much since.
There’s a couple of recent-ish Orange hardtails in our local riding group, I sometimes pondered getting a modern P7 frame but I can’t think when I last saw a FS out and about.
Bit of a shock to read they're in trouble but when you think about it probably not that surprising. They've just got left behind, not because the bikes are poor but because their design just isn't fashionable. I hope they can either restructure and come out the other side ok or the staff can find new work very soon.
I know their full build prices were challenging in terms of value (but they’re far from the only brand doing that) but I feel they suffered unfairly by using what people thought was a dated design because it didn’t have a load of pivots and linkages or swoopy carbon fibre.
I had a 5 in 2010 and it was the bike I loved the most, it was pricy back then but not overly so compared to the competition. When it came to replace it in 2018 I tried a new 5 which was great but the price was a big sticking point. I ended up with a Cotic Rocket at £4k, that in itself was £5-700 more than some bikes for a similar spec but the equivalent 5 or Alpine 6 was £1k on top of that. IIRC correctly the Orange offerings were something like 40% more expensive than the likes of Bird or Canyon for similar specs! Looking at the prices now it's just as bad.
Long gone are the days of them being the trail centre fashion brand of choice, and telling that the replacement (Santa Cruz) might even represent better value
The Welsh trail centres used to be awash with Orange bikes all the way up to about 2017, now I see the odd one but it's usually at FOD I spy one hammering the DH trails.
My first proper mountain bike was a clockwork as a teenage apprentice back in the 80’s. Always had a sort spot for them and over the last decade when I have bough a new full-sus, hard tail, gravel bike and finally; an e-bike in October, I tried to convince myself to buy the Orange. Unfortunately cost and spec meant I didn’t, I suspect a few folk made a similar decision. Such a shame to see them in trouble and crap for the employees at this time of year.
I had an original Orange Clockwork, then an Aluminium E8 (I think that was its designation), then almost got their Phase MX emtb a couple of years ago, but didn’t due to a number of reasons…..
I hope they survive as UK manufacturers.
Regarding volume of bikes and brands on the trails, my observations are that Santa Cruz and Nukeproof are the most popular bikes currently being ridden around here (Aberdeenshire), and I see a lot of riders out and about.
I met a chap on an Orange Phase MX only once and he loved it.
Very sad news. For anybody who has been around a while, the orange to white fade steel framed bikes were synonymous with 90’s mountain biking. And not just because of the bikes themselves, but (perhaps more importantly), the support and sponsorship that Orange pumped into the sport. Without pioneers like Orange and Pace and their generosity, things wouldn’t be quite the same today.
That the company is based in Yorkshire should be a point of pride, which is very different to ‘Middle England jingoism’. It’s OK to have pride in home grown production without being accused of having a far right small minded mindset. Making stuff here is something to be proud of, not ashamed and it isn’t easy, so anybody doing it should be applauded and supported.
The ghoulish negativity is unfortunately typical of some folks round these parts and a big turn off for quite a few people. Maybe it’s new year blues, but quite a few innocuous threads have degenerated recently due to a basic lack of respect and civility for each other. Fortunately there are enough people who are more sensitive to raise the tone, but that balance is tipping over time.
It goes without saying that for a company to make such big losses during the biggest cycling boom ever (the pandemic) is quite an achievement, and that to have called in the administrators something has gone wrong. Let’s just leave it there.
I would prefer to offer some thanks for what they have done, some sympathy for the staff and some optimism that administration gives them the opportunity to clean things up and and start afresh rather than disappear altogether. At that point it would feel more appropriate to offer what is I am sure well meaning advice about the complexity of their range and their business model. In the meantime, I am sad to see you in difficulty and wish you all the best for so many reasons.
This is sad. The trade is difficult place to be and we're getting used to news like this, but this hits hard. I'd hoped a brand like Orange could get through it. They make their own stuff, which is something few brands do now and I respect that hugely. They do what they do and provide a living for the staff, not all about chasing growth and the dividends to shareholders, I respect that too.
Really hope there's a good news story for them all on the other side of this. I've had two Orange bikes over the years and they're one of the few brands I would want to own, rather than generally wanting the right product and not caring as much about the name.
I'm sat here thinking about that era when the Five was the go-to for the keen, committed rider and you'd see them ridden by the big miles all year round guys as well as some seriously quick, go-big riders. Pre carbon, pre E-MTB, pre wheelsize debates and standards faff, it was a simpler time and a golden age of MTB in many ways imo. They made something that is always a sign of great design - a bike that was stripped back to the basics yet worked brilliantly. UK-made too. Feels like they have a rightful place in UK MTB.
It’s OK to have pride in home grown production without being accused of having a far right small minded mindset. Making stuff here is something to be proud of, not ashamed and it isn’t easy, so anybody doing it should be applauded and supported.
+100
It goes without saying that for a company to make such big losses during the biggest cycling boom ever (the pandemic) is quite an achievement, and that to have called in the administrators something has gone wrong. Let’s just leave it there.
But this ... every bike company made losses somehow once the boom sales were had and Orange won't have benefitted from the initial demand spike as much as a big box stock holder who could have cleared a warehouse full and re-ordered (and we know how those stories went).
Pretty much every bike company out there is on a knife-edge at the moment. A brand could be doing everything right and still get to this point, it's just ... : /
It’s sad news for the industry and people involved.
The odd thing about the negativity is statements along the lines of “I haven’t seen one for years they aren’t very good”. So if you’ve not ridden one how do you know that aren’t any good?
My understanding is that Orange were bought by the company that did the construction of the made in uk FS bikes. Are they now one company or still 2 separates companies? Did the company that made the bikes only make bikes or did it do other work as well?
The owners are the sheet metal company. No idea if they're also affected
Will be a sad day if they fold
Clever, needs more recognition 👏👏
I was coming down off the top of Skiddaw (walking) in the Lakes in 1987 or 88, and as we got to Latrigg two guys in full Orange kit (with the oranges on the jerseys 😍) were coming round from what is the Back-o-Skiddaw route. They must have been on the Formula O or original Clockworks. That was my introduction to mountain biking, and I was immediately hooked at the idea of being in the proper hills on a bike. That Christmas I got my first mountain bike. In the summer of 93 I saved up all summer hols and bought a Clockwork, all orange in colour, Deore LX groupset, XT thumbies, X-Lite bar ends etc. I was utterly in love and did most of my mountain biking on it - the offroad coast to coast route, Back-o-Skiddaw, the Borrowdale Bash, bothying in Scotland to tick off Munros (about 20 years before bikepacking), first time at Glentress. When I moved to Edinburgh I commuted to work on it until about 2012 until the stays developed a split. My favourite ever bike. The frame and forks are hung on the wall in my garage. An emotional attachment that I've never had with any other bike.
So really sad at this news, a shame for the brand and all involved and linked to them, and again highlighting the state of the industry and economy in general.
I can see why their later bikes were a bit Marmite and that they weren't great value, but I'm surprised at some of the negativity in the comments. An Orange 5 was 'the' bike for a period of time, a UK classic. I hope they can survive.
This is very sad, and I hope something positive can emerge and the staff are ok, what a crappy start to ‘24 for them. They are local to me and I grew up in a time when Orange were an aspirational brand. My son has a Five, in day-glo Orange obvs, as that’s the best colour.
I understood that they had recently been bought, and up to that point had been almost a family company with Steve Wade selling the company on to his Nephew, Ashley. Maybe once loans and financing and what not get involved, then the balance sheet is a lot harder to manage. I had read on PB that they had announced the withdrawal of their race team a month or so ago and hoped this was going to be an unwelcome but necessary measure to keep the wider company going.
Gutted for them.
An Orange 5 was ‘the’ bike for a period of time, a UK classic.
This happens all the time in UK manufacturing, we have an amazing ability to be the best and then just let it slip, we've been doing it since at least the 70s.
My A level metalwork project was partly made from two Orange X2 frames that they let me have out of the scrap bin after riding over there.
(Caveat - written not knowing all the details...) I think that too many of the comments so far are concentrating on the made-in-England stuff too much, when Orange had a big range of Asian-made hardtails - and this was likely where most of the volume Orange's business is/was. They would have been victims of the 'order now for delivery in 600 days' frenzy that went on in 2020/2021 and those bikes will have been arriving, and piling up, for the last couple of years. Without a massive dealer base (or a massive warehouse) it would have been hard to make any of those bikes pay the bills, regardless of what's been going on in the relatively small numbers of UK-welded full suspension bikes.
Sad times, We still see quite a few Orange bikes up our way, I know loads of Fanpeople.
I’ve had quite a few Orange bikes, G3, Five, Patriot, P7, I’d happily ride an orange now but new they’re often poor value, second have no warranty to cover the high crack rate.
Anyone remember the sweary northerner vids?
Some of the the sweary northerners are still around posting crazy tech riding on Instagram.
Shame but not surprising
USP of unusual design and hand made in Halifax with a great back story. Except the world moved on to carbon bikes which were nicer, production moved abroad yet they continued with the high prices and hand built in the UK.
They were of a time that has passed
I think the last few posts sum it up; outdated, niche & often appealing to riders due to geography. That's all fine in theory if the brand is sustainable, but the reasons I wouldn’t buy an Orange nowadays (failure rates, design, etc.) are commonplace from talking to other riders. The (assumed) loyalty is understandable, but I've always felt it's a bit misplaced.
I've owned an Orange, way back in the days of thumbshifters and toe-clips. It was relegated to a winter bike, then a singlespeed in '95 - it felt like a gate then - and every Orange that I've ridden since has felt anachronistic. Good marketing & image aside, they weren't forward thinking in design, for the majority.
I feel for the staff, of course, but the bike industry in the UK is just that; an industry. If you don't move with the times in a market dominated by the latest shiny carbon sled, then where's the market? Ploughing a furrow is Noble, but only if the product really is first-rate. So many comments here are about design, failure and a lack of trust in the bike. Sad times, but then there are other UK bike companies.
Sad new for all involved - always wanted an Orange but never owned one.
Are the big players just squeezing the mid-size players out of the market? As the tech gets ever more complicated then very deep pockets for R&D are needed. Pretty much the same happened in the car industry in the sixties - big companies swallowed up the small players until they just became a badge engineered product.
Or is the drive for more tech just putting people off the sport and the cake is getting smaller? Can’t be much fun if you are a newbie on your £500 Decathlon bike joining a group ride for the first time only to be dropped double-quick by riders on £6k+ pieces of high-tech.
Back when Orange started it really wasn’t just about the bike. I never felt the bike was the limiting factor back when as I pounded the hills on my Raleigh Activator! 😃
"The only time they were discussed on here seemed to be when some little-Englander decided they wanted to build a bike made from bits made in Britain."
Ahh, you mean people who want to support local manufacturing and properly paid quality jobs for adults? Payment of taxes to fund schools and the NHS, whilst not adding even more to the already atrocious balance of trade deficit the country has ?
Carry on helping the country's economy get even worse instead, then.
That perceived sentiment about Orange (in terms of being UK based) and the patriotism is, arguably, justified.
Carry on helping the country’s economy get even worse instead, then.
I refer you to the last line of my post above, and to Chipps'. There are other British companies making frames in this country, if that's your thing. Orange might even make it out of administration, and produce (predominantly) UK made bikes again. I hope they do, for the staff and the industry, but also for their customers.
I’ve owned an Orange, way back in the days of thumbshifters and toe-clips. It was relegated to a winter bike, then a singlespeed in ’95 – it felt like a gate then – and every Orange that I’ve ridden since has felt anachronistic. Good marketing & image aside, they weren’t forward thinking in design, for the majority.
They were very forward thinking in the late 80's, early 90's and often tweaked frame design a couple of times a year after feedback from the race team and linked riders (The 'O' Rangers, in the spotty black and orange tops). The C16 was called that because it was the 16th different revision of the Clockwork, in 6 years! I can only assume you had a late 80's bike in the early 90's, when frame design across the board was change dramatically every year? I find it hard to accept they lacked behind design wise for the first 20 years at least. Certainly wasn't my experience.
As has been said, it seems the post take over frame cracking and lack of pivots and carbon has done for them. I'd personally can't see what a mass produced far east carbon frame offers over my hand built aluminium Stage 5 but I'm clearly in the minority.
Agree with Chipps about the cheaper stuff too. I guess the Clockwork/P7/Crush/RX9 should be the big sellers with decent profit but for whatever reason the pricing in the last few years has gone insane which can't of helped sales. When I was looking for a gravel bike back in 2021 I looked at the RX9 but it was almost twice the price of an almost identically priced Vitus. I'd have been happy paying a few hundred quid to have Orange on the head tube instead of Vitus, but not £1k+ over the £1200 bike! That was the point I stopped getting the lower end stuff I guess? Instead of a P7 I built a Pace.
If they do disappear I'll be looking over the border to Hope I reckon. Not because I'm a right wing, little Englander (nothing could be further from the truth!), but because if I'm spending a stack of money of a push bike I want to feel some connection with it. Always have with Orange and Hope stuff (Pace too, to a point). I thought about replacing my full suss with one of the Nukeproof/Vitus bargains but they just leave me cold.
Just having a read through all this and it is interesting to see the comments and compare it to where the UK is now - apparently the majority wanted us to take back control and make things better for everyone (reality is very far from that) and yet there are loads of comments on here, and the other Orange thread, saying people don't want the UK made thing as they want things from the other manufacturers/countries...I'm not suggesting Brexit has caused this particular thing, but it is interesting to see the comments about how much better (might be due to material choice, pricing, level of kit, looks, etc) can be had from elsewhere.
Just an observation, but if a forum that is pretty set on mountain bike has so many comments about how things are better elsewhere, is it any wonder so many companies are struggling?
As for the range being too big, it certainly seems so but could be marketed much better. Ultimately they offer what most do:
Lower end HT.
Steel aggressive HT.
Aluminium aggressive HT.
Gravel bike.
Trail FS.
Enduro FS.
Downhill FS.
2x Electric FS.
Kids bikes.
It's just they offer most of them in every wheel size and market them all separately!
That's ignoring the bunch of new hand made bikes that appeared at the back end of the year which now seem like a roll of the dice to chase sales whilst in trouble?
I think the base is there for someone to make a success of the brand again but it'll take big balls and deep pockets. Unfortunately, and understandably they are in short supply atm.
I’m not suggesting Brexit has caused this particular thing, but it is interesting to see the comments about how much better (might be due to material choice, pricing, level of kit, looks, etc) can be had from elsewhere.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Orange prices went bonkers after a certain vote?
yet there are loads of comments on here, and the other Orange thread, saying people don’t want the UK made thing as they want things from the other manufacturers/countries…
I’ve not seen that. What I have seen is that Orang don’t offer value, even compared to other U.K. brands. Eg a Stage Evo frame being £400 more expensive than a Rocketmax. I know which of those two I’d expect to last longer too
loads of comments on here, and the other Orange thread, saying people don’t want the UK made thing
I’m not sure that’s true. It feels like there are more small/medium sized UK based bike brands than there were at the height of Oranges popularity? People are still buying UK products (even if not everything is made here) but more choice means that brands are getting a smaller slice of the total (now smaller thanks to you know what) market?
...if I’m spending a stack of money of a push bike I want to feel some connection with it. Always have with Orange and Hope stuff (Pace too, to a point). I thought about replacing my full suss with one of the Nukeproof/Vitus bargains but they just leave me cold...
Which is kind of where I'm at - irrespective of where it was made I kind of buy into more than just a bike. I loved my Yeti, I love my Ti Sonder - I bought into their principles and/or heritage etc as well as excellence of design and manufacture I have a Nukeproof gravel bike which is perfectly competent in every way - but its just a lump of metal. I love where it takes me, but I don't love it. That's okay though because as a bike it cost less than the price of its groupset and wheels. For no good reason, sooner or later I'll buy a Ti Camino. Daft daft daft!
From the other thread:
had a 97 P7 in nickel too
Me too!
It was actually my first proper mountain bike and I'm still riding it as my commuter/gravel bike. Kind of.
It's a proper Trigger's Broom job as I've replaced every single part on it (including the frame after I flared the headtube although the replacement frame is not a nickel one unfortunately) with the only original part left being the forks so at least there's still some of the original nickel with black stickers (as well as some '97 MBUK stickers I thought were the height of cool at the time).
So yeah, Orange is definitely an important part of my own mountain biking history so really sad to hear this.
had a 97 P7 in nickel too
The one that got away for me, wanted one so badly for a good while but unsure why I didn't. Until I got a Soul which the I can't see a P7 bettering. It is in nickel (mercury) finish with orange decals, though, so pretty good "compromise".
Don’t think I’m a
but the MIB🇬🇧 aspect has always had some appeal. Was considering a 5 once, but that was the year Cannondales were crazily discounted so ended up witha Trigger 29 instead! (Which I still have)little Englander
The expansion into far-eastern alu frames is something I never understood as to me it moved away from what I saw as their USP. If the (R)X9 had a made-in-UK steel frame (or even better, carbon, which seems to be what everyone wants these days) I’d certainly have bought one. As it is they offer absolutely nothing to stand out.
also agree with most others that the mind-boggling range of frames/wheel-sizes makes no sense!
Agreed with above ....seen this a lot recently. Admin close thread on anything on there main page that gets posted I the forum .
Not great
As mentioned by mark. Any story on the front page automatically gets a forum post, and there’s no point having duplicates, so the thread linked to the article stays.
Why’s that a problem? Nothing gets deleted?
also agree with most others that the mind-boggling range of frames/wheel-sizes makes no sense!
That's a classic case of trying to cater for everyone but ending up with such a large and confusing range that you cater for no-one.
It's also an effective doubling of stock of things like forks, rims and tyres which is a huge extra cost.
Pick a wheel size - the industry seems to have mostly decided on 29" with a few mullet exceptions - and then stick with it.
The expansion into far-eastern alu frames is something I never understood as to me it moved away from what I saw as their USP. If the (R)X9 had a made-in-UK steel frame (or even better, carbon, which seems to be what everyone wants these days) I’d certainly have bought one. As it is they offer absolutely nothing to stand out.
The majority or Orange frames have always been made in Asia though. Ironically Orange was born when another UK MTB brand went pop with a container full of frames on a ship in the middle of the ocean. Tushingham purchased and rebranded them and shortly after rebranded again under the Orange brand. Back then (I think) only the Formula was UK made and they were rare. The early alu (O and E) frames were Asia made.
It’s only really since the predecessor to the Five that they had a ‘Made in the UK’ tag to promote.
It’s only really since the Five they had a ‘Made in the UK’ tag to promote.
What?
Pish, back when I was getting into mtb properly you had the Sub 5, Sub 3, Partriot and MsIsle at the very least, that was around 98. There was still the Mr O before then, the Five came much later.
Basically any kite frame was made in house and the straight tubes (Gringo, Air-O etc) were offshored.
Thinking about it, one of Oranges strengths became one of their weaknesses. They were always innovative (well into the 2000s FYI) and had new frames coming out all the time (Body Czech, Hitman etc.) so never got stale. At the same time they would retire older or lower selling designs so you never had too many to choose from. They were a staple on the DH scene as well, Patriots and 22X's were well used and constantly being tweaked. They were so popular I remember Silver Fox shitheaps being stickered up to look like Global Racing 222's.
Bit last I looked they had, as said, a bewildering range and it became a case of paralysis by analysis. If they consolidated that and at least gave things the same name across wheel sizes or made a flip chip to easily convert it would make things easier. People like choice but not when it's inflexible. I have an old P7 with the all in one sliding derailleur dropout that gives you all the options without having to compromise.
