The news leaking out of a corner of the Peak District is true - Dan Stanton has successfully bought back control of Stanton Bikes (or Stanton Bicycles ...
By stwhannah
Get the full story here:
https://singletrackworld.com/2023/02/exclusive-update-from-stanton-bicycles-the-recovery-begins/
Great news 😊
Hopefully that will shut all the ‘ZOMG, he’s screwed eVeRyOnE over11!!!1one!’ Crowd up.
Not that it will, but ever hopeful.
David 1 - Goliath 0.
Good on yer folks.
Brilliant work by Dan and Stanton Bicycles. Well done!
There is some misleading information here, I am a type 2 customer who ordered some spares. I received an email today from the administrators PKF Smith Cooper, informing me that since they were unable to fulfil my order and have now sold Stanton Bikes Ltd. to Stanton Bicycles Limited, I should contact my bank to claim a refund.
As it happens, I did receive the spares after some weeks, so don't need to claim a refund from any party.
Him, great news for Dan
Were the old company's creditors were all paid in full.
Thanks Hannah for getting some facts published.
I’m hoping lots more people get the chance to own Stanton frames and support the great people that work with Dan.
I was just flicking through Saturdays Times financial section and was surprised to see it had made the national papers…
Several thousand pounds! For a bicycle? Imagine that 🙂
Several thousand pounds! For a bicycle? Imagine that 🙂
"I've heard they've fitted electric motors to bicycles now, Marjorie, whatever next?"
Debts of £2.15 million is perhaps more worrying? And then to set up again?
And, how do you protect a brand and goodwill owing that amount of money? I’m out.
Yes, if someone running an SME makes a mistake they should probably just be made to clean toilets or euthanised.
What’s an SME?
What is an SME in the UK?
The UK government definition of SMEs (Small and medium-sized enterprises) encompasses micro (less than 10 employees and an annual turnover under €2 million), small (less than 50 employees and an annual turnover under €10 million) and medium-sized (less than 250 employees and an annual turnover under €50 million) businesses.
Thank you for the info! Will there be other SME’S who are still owed money and now struggling?
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From another thread on here:
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Since some have asked and I wondered too … summary of the debts from here
(where named…I am not an insolvency practitioner, and there seem to be two similar but not identical lists)
Employee hol pay : £800.
HMRC: £92K
Trade: £370K
Dan Stanton: £120K
Atkinsons (the recent investor/s presumably): £1.05M
10 Customers: £33K
Paypal: £73K
You Lend (who?): £40K
Redundancy/pay arrears: £60K.
TNT: 43KTrade seems to be a Taiwanese and a Chinese supplier (bulk of it) plus various UK distros.
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But let's face it. The last few years must have been an incredibly difficult time to be running a business like this.
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And i'm guessing Stanton might be a micro business under that definition above ... not bad to have a "global presence" according to the Times.
Thank you for the info! Will there be other SME’S who are still owed money and now struggling?
According to some accounts on Pinkbike, the owners of a couple of businesses may now be struggling to to pay bills or put food on the table. (PayPal and TNT)
Hope they pull through.
But let’s face it. The last few years must have been an incredibly difficult time to be running a business like this.
It's been an absolute shitshow from the point we had to start putting customs labels on stuff going to the EU. I now have A Job and have scaled what we do (teeny, tiny business, working from home but it paid the bills and put food on the table) right back.
The implication I got from the accounts was the Atkinsons lost the bulk of their investment.
TNT and Paypal lost their debts as a result of the insolvency.
Holiday pay, wages etc automatically get added to the pile during administration because the company 'owes' you that holiday pay as you accrue it even if you have no intention of taking it until December, and wages are paid by the administrators / owed by the new company.
The suppliers debts are for orders they've placed, i.e. they owe the framebuilder in Tiawan £300k for upcoming batches they've committed to, presumably they've every intention of still buying those frames as "Stanton Bicycles".
Basically looked to me like the only people who lost out significantly were TNT and Paypal, the investor made their own decision to pull the plug so hard to feel like they've been hard done by. .n.b. reading the accounts and statements it looks like there were other issues with cashflow caused by brexit/ukraine/inflation/whatever than just the investor pulling the plug. So the investor didn't simply walk away for no reason, they made the decision not to put up any more money to cover the shortfall in cashflow.
I'm amazed TNT let it get so far - they were like rabid dogs in accounts when we used to deal with them. Not paid - then nothing gets shipped.
Basically looked to me like the only people who lost out significantly were TNT and Paypal, the investor made their own decision to pull the plug so hard to feel like they’ve been hard done by.
posted pretty much the same thing on Pinkbike. Got this response.
The same guy with half a dozen or so accounts is currently downvoting me to oblivion
Surely the likes of PayPal and TNT expect to right off an amount of debt they are owed every year and plan for it, so whilst not ideal, it is a factor in running a business that they plan for.
Those losses will get accounted for in the giant corp accounts they have and will be put to good use offsetting their tax liabilities. It's still a loss to those companies but unless those companies are running out of actual cash it's going to affect no one other than shareholders realistically. If these losses become an increasing pattern for these companies they may pass on the costs by increasing prices, which could affect lots of people in minor ways but most large corps will plan for a percentage of these losses in their business plans and forecasts so it will MOST LIKELY have zero affect on anyone at all.
BuT tHeY hAvE kIdZ 2 fEeD!!
#prayforpaypal
How do you run up a debt with PP anyway?
I thought they'd just pay a slice of each transaction the moment it was made, like us punters?
Or do they offer other services for SMEs?
Ah, it's ok to default payments to large companies. Cool. Does someone have a handy diagram/explanation of where the dividing line is?
More importantly, if Stanton couldn't pay them previously does that means it's going to be a click-and-collect, cash-only business now?
They lend to businesses. We’ve used their credit facilities in the past. It’s very good. You borrow an amount and repay it via an increased percentage taken from all future transactions.
More importantly, if Stanton couldn’t pay them previously does that means it’s going to be a click-and-collect, cash-only business now?
Dan said in the interview that both companies are happy to deal with the new one.
Also, every company that offers credit, be that loans or payment terms will credit check then make a decision based on the level of risk involved in offering those things to customers. They decided it was an acceptable level of risk and priced accordingly to still make money. I’d wager they’ve both still made money over the course of the relationship, even with the hit they are taking now.
Ah, it’s ok to default payments to large companies. Cool. Does someone have a handy diagram/explanation of where the dividing line is?
Of course it's not ok. But it happens and it is typically planned for.
Ah, it’s ok to default payments to large companies. Cool. Does someone have a handy diagram/explanation of where the dividing line is?
Have you ever run a business?
Big companies factor bad debt in - it's part of the business. And many businesses are happy to trade with new entities. Google for Pre-Pack Businesses.
Even me running a small one-man band business knows there will always be an element of bad debt. Even good customers can go bad.
I know it's easy to be cynical but he seems to be giving a very clear and honest explanation of who is losing out and why.
They lend to businesses. We’ve used their credit facilities in the past. It’s very good. You borrow an amount and repay it via an increased percentage taken from all future transactions.
Thanks, makes sense now 🙂
There's still nearly £200k of liabilities to staff and customers that have been written off.
I don't know about you - but if my bike order was written off, and the same frame was sold to someone else after being bought by the new entity, I'd be pretty miffed.
And if my pension contributions went down the pan. That's not great.
Are there? The article states that customers will be sorted, and staff salaries are normally top of the list to be paid first?
I know it’s easy to be cynical but he seems to be giving a very clear and honest explanation of who is losing out and why.
Think he needs to as its clear from this and other threads that the goodwill towards Stanton has taken a hit over this (although as I read it, its the investor pulling out that was the trigger that has led to where they are now) and thats not what you need when rebuilding the business and frankly I do wonder if they can come back from that...going to be a hard slog rebuilding reputation. Regardless of opinion of this collapse/rebirth, if I was in the market for a new bike/frame, I think Id want to be confident they were likely to be around for the foreseeable future and Im not sure at this point Id have that confidence
The guy is hardly hiding, is he? If he thought this episode was going to tarnish his name to the extent some might think he'd just have called the new company something else.
Some people on here are absolutely clueless as demonstrated by the naivety and/or ignorant commentary. It's clear that they know nothing of the reality of running a business. Nothing wrong with that of course, but why feel the need to comment on something you know nowt about.?! Dan S has been honest and upfront about the what has happened to Stanton, and importantly what the the pathway forward is. As far as I see, he's been dealt a rough hand and rather than folding like I'm sure 99% of us would have (me included) he's toughed it out and is rebuilding in the most pragmatic way he can. Good on you fella.
I know it’s easy to be cynical but he seems to be giving a very clear and honest explanation of who is losing out and why.
The administrator alluded to this in their report- in a meeting they proposed to sell the company as the best option & this was agreed by the directors (including the £1m investor). Then the director owed the ££ changed his mind.
as I read it, its the investor pulling out that was the trigger that has led to where they are now
My reading was the investor pulled the plug because they had been throwing good money after bad in an unprofitable business.
So I'd say it was Stanton's previous trading that led to this. Shame he doesn't say how he hopes it can become profitable now, apart from having a new website.
Shame he doesn’t say how he hopes it can become profitable now, apart from having a new website.
By not selling complete bikes.
The logistics of getting a complete bikes worth of parts together plus all the options as a small player is a major overhead. Just need one supplier to say "sorry, through axles will be a month late" and you've then got 20 bikes and 100 grands worth of stock you can't sell for another 4-6 weeks. Or longer. Or ever if someone cancels.
And over the last 2 -3 years, we're not talking one month and one supplier, we're talking most suppliers and several month delays.
Breaking it down to 3 or 4 suppliers for frames only, makes things a whole load cheaper.
By not selling complete bikes.
Sorry, did I miss that he said that?
