A is better racing than B definitely. B so often ends up being a slow procession to the sprint.
first race last night in a while.
https://zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=3843679
didn't seem quite so mental as it used to be but new jetblack turbo seems to have found me an extra 50W over my old kurt kinetic and blew through the C category limits.
tail end of B from now on then...
I'm going to restart my Zwift account after 18 months or so away. I've lost all my fitness as usual, so this should be fun. Even when I was on if fairly regularly, my FTP was only 215 or so. It's going to be a long hard winter.
so often ends up being a slow procession to the sprint.
Same as all C races. Another yesterday, Crit City, i tried 3 attacks but couldn't make any more than a 3s gap, as soon as you reach the cobbles you get caught by everyone in seconds, it's just instantly closed by the group. You need to pull at least a 6-7s i think and that takes 500w+ for a minute... If i could do that, i'd race in B 😀
I think thats the mistake i made last night, some hard efforts during the race up the short hills to try and break from the group and just got swallowed up again after. should have just sat in until the last hill up out of the tunnel and then gone. probably would have got in under the power limits.
Its very hard to judge I think because the demographic is not the same as a pro race (or a pro CX or XC short track race being more analogous to the shorter flatter races)
I skirt the borderline between healthy weight and overweight on a BMI chart; and Im closer to the top than the bottom of B category by W/kg.
If I got myself to the middle of healthy weight maintaining my FTP, I'd be well in to A cat with 4.3 W/kg.
I'm going to imagine that a lot of people who zwift, and zwift race regularly, but are not in a zwift race team or heavily focused on workouts (and so make up most of your opponents in an ad-hoc race) are going to be similar - fairly fit but unfocused and slightly porky recreational riders.
Basically, recreational riding isn't going to get you holding a minute at double your FTP (and still being able to carry on after) for a flat break, and too much beer and pizza means we aren't making a break on the uphills either.
A bunch sprint with no need for positioning/manouvering and zero risk of crashing is the obvious remaining tactic. It just comes down to how many people you can dro poff the back before that point.
It just comes down to how many people you can dro poff the back before that point.
That's kinda my tactic with a decent bunch, try and get a few out and whittle the group down. But even with say 25 in the group it's so so hard to get anyone out, or get out the front yourself... So you end up just sitting there bored and waiting for the last 500m. (admittedly bored at a high HR) but it doesn't make for exciting racing that's for sure.
I find in B only races I’m flat out the entire race so at the end I can only muster a 400-500w ‘sprint’ at best and that’s not enough.
On my last race I averaged 291w (ftp according to Zwift is 275w) for a 35 min race and came 79th out of 147 people - I definitely wasn’t sandbagging. I only held the 1st group for about a lap before dropping off and getting into a chunky size 2nd group. I tend to push at the front of the group where I can, as trying to pace myself in the middle tends to find me dropping off the back if I lose a bit of concentration.
catdras
Doing my first race in about 20 minutes….
Have fun.
You need to go harder than you think at the start. Hang on & it settles down.
20 seconds before the race starts push your watts up - ideally go off at 300-400 watts for a bit
After a summer of building work the garage is nearly back in my hands so not entirely looking forward to seeing how much fitness ive lost. Preparing for dry heaving and wobbly legs sometime next week.
Some races like Team Electric Spirit at 1215 Mon-Fri have all categories race together, making them even more of a baptism of fire if you are a C/D rider desperately trying to keep up with the main pack including A/Bs during the insane 1-2mins at the race start.
But even with say 25 in the group it’s so so hard to get anyone out, or get out the front yourself… So you end up just sitting there bored and waiting for the last 500m. (admittedly bored at a high HR) but it doesn’t make for exciting racing that’s for sure.
Find a course that's got flat bits and hills. Stuff happens on the hills, you get attacks all over the place.
Find a course that’s got flat bits and hills. Stuff happens on the hills, you get attacks all over the place
Not a lot of use to me as i'm then one of the people getting dumped as the lighter riders his 4.5w/kg up the climbs.
Came 10th in cat D. 44:22.5 mins and 222 watts. It was stage 1 of Race Watopia. That last sprint hurts. Should have started further out. HR hit 201.
Looking forward to the next one!
20 seconds before the race starts push your watts up – ideally go off at 300-400 watts for a bit
Try and cut it finer than this. My target is 500W off the line and I'll sit spinning around 200W while waiting. Ramp to 500W starts slowly at 20s and I only achieve launch power 1-2s before the off otherwise you are just wasting power. I then throttle back as soon as I can and let others do the work will the excitement dies a little. If you are right out front from the start then ease off.
But even with say 25 in the group it’s so so hard to get anyone out, or get out the front yourself… So you end up just sitting there bored and waiting for the last 500m. (admittedly bored at a high HR) but it doesn’t make for exciting racing that’s for sure.
It's a race with other people, if you want to win the race you'll have to have some race craft about you and do something better than the other 25 in your example and a lot of the time that's just being patient. If you could just ride off the front, would that be a fun exciting race? The group is whittled down over the lumps and bumps, whoever's left at the finish has to sprint it out. If you can't sprint then do some sprint training.
Try and cut it finer than this. My target is 500W off the line and I’ll sit spinning around 200W while waiting. Ramp to 500W starts slowly at 20s and I only achieve launch power 1-2s before the off otherwise you are just wasting power. I then throttle back as soon as I can and let others do the work will the excitement dies a little. If you are right out front from the start then ease off.
I just idle at 50rpm 100W right until 2 seconds then absolutely stamp on the pedals, it's your W at 0 seconds that matters so if you're spinning up 20 seconds before the start you are just tiring yourself out for no reason.
I guess what I mean is I ramp up at bit about 20 seconds out - but only hit the bigger numbers a couple of seconds before…
True but also need to get the blood pumping. I'm normally tight on warmup time so every little helps. Stamping on the pedals also hurts your legs more than spinning it up. The spin up is a slow increase.
As for the attacks if you attack enough and come back then it becomes expected. This can result in two effects. One the pack stops chasing which can open the opportunity to a deeper attempt. Or two someone will decide to join you.
The main reason I hoof it at the start is to get a 1st/XX screenshot and then slow down to a wheezing crawl once that's done.
Coach Robbo doesn't approve.
Out of curiosity are people doing full gas standing sprints at the end of races?
I am so in the habit of not standing on my indoor trainer that it only occurred to me recently that people might be doing proper out the saddle efforts... which might explain my dire finishes even when I manage to hang on to the lead group to the last km(s)
At the start I always aim for FTP+30% for a few mins which seems to at least give me enough room to adjust slightly upwards or down as needed depending on how manic it is
Out of curiosity are people doing full gas standing sprints at the end of races?
Of course, if I have the energy! Why ride all that way and not go flat out? Don't you want to win? 😉
I am a reasonable sprinter but I lose out big time when I just hang onto the bunch, because some people are cruising so have plenty in the tank and I'm knackered.
Duggan
Full Member
Out of curiosity are people doing full gas standing sprints at the end of races?I am so in the habit of not standing on my indoor trainer that it only occurred to me recently that people might be doing proper out the saddle efforts…
I think you already know the answer to this but yes, yes they are. Don't think there are many people in the world about to put out their peak power whilst seated
I've just spent between 20 mins and an hour near max heart rate, for the chance to sprint for the win, I am 100% standing and giving it my absolute all.
Well after 6 months off Zwift and getting placed back in D class I finally "won" a race!
I'm sure after a couple of weeks back on it I'll be back to finishing middle of the pack in C as per usual 😀
I did a race a couple of weeks back and thanks to Zwift's (not ZP) new categorisation, it's bumped me to Cat B. To be fair, I did win the Cat C race but only because of went on a kamikazi break and the other 30 riders just marked each other - so it does occasionally happen. However, I agree. Normally, any semblence of organisation results in no breaks forming or them no lasting long.
Not so enthused about doing a Cat B race until I bump the FTP a bit more over the Autumn/Winter. Tour of Watopia is good for racing in non-races.
I’ve not raced on Zwift since well before category enforcement came in. Looking forward to giving some races a shot again this winter. Just need to shake this post-covid fatigue first 🤦♂️ had it a week so far, hopefully it’ll clear up soon enough. Took 2-3 weeks to feel back to normal when I had it last year FFS.
Managed a few easy spins on Zwift this week without too much drama.
