Zwift 1st race - that’s intense….

Your first 1km was bonkers... your first 4km was pretty nuts... i'd have been impressed if you could hold it. First 500m i was sitting at 350+w and thinking "he must be behind me..." and noticed on the board you were 9s ahead lol.
My legs were fried within honestly 500m of setting off.. i was struggling all race. When we were coming to the start of Box-Hill i knew i'd get shelled on that kick up, it was 100% happening.
My HR was sitting quite a bit lower than yours at about 156 according to Strava but the legs were simply not at the ball-game after playing against Ebikes and plenty of climbing at FoD on Monday. Was brilliant to race with someone i know though, i don't see many STWers out racing.

I think alongside endurance and sweet spot rides on TR this will push my fitness on a bit

There's nothing quite like the fear of being dropped (even virtually) to make you push a little harder!

Unfortunately last winter Zwift decided to put me into cat A, and I haven't bothered since 🙁 Technically I just scrape in due to my W/kg but I get absolutely destroyed as I'm fairly skinny and just don't have the power. Never won anything in B, but did enjoy it

I think I’m going to stick to 1 race per week as I’ll burn myself out if all my Zwift rides were like that

Thing is, 50 mins isn't a very long bike ride so you may find you can do two of those a week more easily than two 2hr MTBs. See how you go.

If you want really intense though try the crits, which are about 20 mins long. And for maximum insanity there's a race series called Aussie crit crushers; on the day they are split into two races of about 8 minutes or something. Absolutely bonkers brilliant. Massive intensity but of course, because they are so short you recover fast.

Technically I just scrape in due to my W/kg but I get absolutely destroyed as I’m fairly skinny and just don’t have the power.

Pick the hilly races, you'l do wel.

Also another tip - do the same races every week. It shows you who you just beat each time and who just beat you. Then you start seeing them on the road, and you then have a person to target. It's great*.

* well, about as great as indoor training can be.

Pick the hilly races, you’l do wel.

Few and far between ime, and not as well attended too. Depending on the course I'm might not be hanging onto the bunch for some time before the climbing starts!

I think in terms of HR I seem to run a bit higher than some other people. My mate Andy (lighter / leaner / lighter bike / totally different riding style uphill) is quite often 20bpm lower than me at least on most stuff. He’s lean and athletic whereas I’m carrying a bit more weight training muscle and a little bit of a belly currently. Too many all inclusive desserts on holiday!

Looking at the Cat A/B people they are minutes quicker than me - hopefully I can stay in Cat C a while. I’m not troubling the first 4 finishers in Cat C or anywhere close.

I do think I may need to pick up a 2nd fan - I’ve never got so hot on the turbo before - not even doing a ramp test.

I was able to keep my cadence much higher than using ERG on TR which was interesting. Found myself mostly over 100rpm and that felt easier then dropping below.

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cadence of 100... wow... Mine would average closer to 70 if i check,

https://zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=3750980

YOu need to get registered on here.. These are the results that actually matter as it filters out the rogues. So you'd have been 4th on ZP, which is more realistic as people who are over 3.2w/kg (class limit) are removed.

DId somebody tip you off about the starts, then ?  booo if so - that's a proper rite of passage, getting dropped before you even cross the line 😂

lol sorry mate.. that will have been me... He went off at WAY more than i told him..

It was a funny race as it was ABCD all off from the same pen at same time... which kinda skews how the racing goes... but wanted him to have a decent field and nothing at his time really had many riders.

I gave up zwift racing when it started enforcing categories. I had power to weight of a top B or low A, but in any race would get absolutely drstroyed by all the fatties putting out 360 watts at 3 w/k. I would regularly come pretty much last in a cat B race, yet have the highest w/kg in the field, proving it’s a stupid way to decide the level to race at

i use to enjoy riding the crits in cat c, never once won, don’t think I even got a podium as I couldnt sprint and my breakaways were always caught, but at least it was slightly fun.

Glad you enjoyed your race.... it is a proper workout.

When Rob used to run the STW race series it was proper intense, as you say, beasting yourself for the best part of an hour in the fear you get dropped from the group you are desperately holding onto 😀

I recently renewed my Zwift sub, so i need to do a few to get the blood pumping!

i use to enjoy riding the crits in cat c, never once won, don’t think I even got a podium as I couldnt sprint and my breakaways were always caught, but at least it was slightly fun.

Sadly due to enhanced pack dynamics that's getting harder and harder these days. You need to put in 450+ for a minute or more to gap a C bunch... but not only that, once you get the gap you need 350+ to maintain it if there's any sort of group behind. So every C race just turns into a sprint in the last 400m now.

@scaredypants - Weeksy suggested going off at 350w+. I think I over-cooked it with 635w 🤣

My heart rate never really recovered from that - on box hill I soft pedalled for a while to get it back down whilst waiting for 2-3 guys behind me to catch up a bit. Got my heart rate down to 140-150w and then bumped it back up again as soon as I got caught up as 2 of them were mates / working together and pushing the pace on.

Only managed high 300’s on my ‘sprint finish’ and didn’t stand up for it. My legs were feeling a bit fried as the pace had been going up gradually the last couple of kms.

Had to have a little lie down whilst I cooled down afterwards!

During the race a number of people had bikes glowing yellow or pink or green - is that some kind of power up or does it just show they’ve upped their pace or something?

I gave up zwift racing when it started enforcing categories. I had power to weight of a top B or low A, but in any race would get absolutely drstroyed by all the fatties putting out 360 watts at 3 w/k. I would regularly come pretty much last in a cat B race, yet have the highest w/kg in the field, proving it’s a stupid way to decide the level to race at

Because sometimes watts count, and sometimes watts/kg count. If it were only about w/kg then I'd never stand a chance.

I am such a fattie that has high power, but I still get my arse handed to me on the hills, and it doesn't take much. You don't need a big mountain, just something that's not flat. Time your attacks. Even on something like Richmond which is pancake flat with a few steep bits - if you can hang on in the bunch til the climb you can make a break (along with all the other climbers) and put a decent gap in, and as said it's hard for the rest of us to close it.

Don't whinge about not winning, get working on it! And find the hillier races - they are there. Certainly in the WTRL. The last race of that season seems to be on the Alpe du Zwift - I often don't even enter!

I’m the same as @mashr, knocked around top end of B cat then got bumped to A and get thrown out the back after about 5 minutes. Found dropping the trainer difficulty down from 100 to 25 percent allows me to hang on for the duration mostly, and allows you back in to B to get some hollow victories!

Sadly due to enhanced pack dynamics that’s getting harder and harder these days.

PD4 that was definitely the case. PD4.1 it seems gapping a pack is possible again. Also in PD4.1 you get a slight cda boost if your power is an amount (maybe 10% above last 10s AVG). So if trying to break you need to ramp the power instead of just hitting it hard.

Technically I just scrape in due to my W/kg but I get absolutely destroyed as I’m fairly skinny and just don’t have the power.

With cat enforcement boundaries you may be B again now.

I think over-cooked it with 635w 🤣

Just a bit, that's A launch pace. I aim for 450-550w off the line and dial back asap depending on how the pack is moving.

During the race a number of people had bikes glowing yellow or pink or green

That's the Tron bike. Complete the Everest climb challenge then and additional 40000m climbing to earn it. Cannot be bought.

Does the Tron bike actually do anything or is  it just a bit of virtual bling?

faster

but not only that, once you get the gap you need 350+ to maintain it if there’s any sort of group behind

I remember one race I was feeling particularly strong, a cat c, I was still putting out well over 3.5 w/k to just keep with the bunch. Got to last km and gave it the beans, 500 yards from the end a message popped up that I was exceeding the expected power for the category and proceeded to then cap my power output, meaning I promptly got caught

i worked out that given I was having to exceed the max of the cat (and therefore would be disqualified) just to stay in the bunch, it was utterly pointless racing

real shame though, as it really did push you and was an excellent and rewarding way to train

used to quite enjoy the zwift racing. shitty weather tomorrow so maybe time to unpack the jetblack volt I bought a couple of weeks ago and is catching dust in the corner...

i worked out that given I was having to exceed the max of the cat (and therefore would be disqualified) just to stay in the bunch, it was utterly pointless racing

That only existed for a while

Like TPBiker I also stopped racing as moved from a C to a B to a rubbish A. Was 66kgs and w/kg was 4.7. But absolutely no top end power what so ever. I’m not complaining about it by the way, and I did pick and choose the races. It was good fun but I found it incredibly difficult to maintain that level of effort.

I was a crit racer in real life so was used to getting destroyed by guys with monster power!

In Zwift I would still occasionally race in the B and C field and just get DQ’d, I’d never contest the sprint or try for a position. I did like the handicap races though, they were good fun.

Unlike others on here, even a 40 or 50 minute race would absolutely wipe me out for a good few days. I couldn’t really train and do a race series. And again this is similar to real life, I’ve always took longer to recover than most other people. When I was racing road series my non racing rides would be zone 2. I would only be able to train during the winter and early spring.

With cat enforcement boundaries you may be B again now.

has there been a recent change? It was towards the end of last winter I received my poisoned chalice

Does the Tron bike actually do anything or is it just a bit of virtual bling?

It's a solid all-rounder. There are faster climbers and faster flat course boxes but nothing really gets near it on a mixed course.

That and it's bling 😂.

Yes it changed earlier this year I think.

Found dropping the trainer difficulty down from 100 to 25 percent allows me to hang on for the duration mostly,

Oh, definitely do this. It doesn't affect your power figures in the game, just means your flywheels spins faster and it's more like real riding.

@mashr can't remember exactly when but there was a change that pulled a lot of low As into B. I think it was since last winter.

Ok, that gives me some hope when I kick-off my sub again for winter! (Still get a kicking in B, but at least I wont be as lonely)

June 9, 2023: Updated zMAP limits after Zwift updated them today. Also changed power window from 60 days to 90, per Zwift’s change today.

From end of the article here https://zwiftinsider.com/category-enforcement/

Ok, that gives me some hope when I kick-off my sub again for winter! (Still get a kicking in B, but at least I wont be as lonely)

I'll see you there. When I went up to B I was 6th in my first race (flat). Then the next one (hilly), I was DFL.

I was low A when the change happened so now top B. Enjoying the opportunity to boss the races (till I build back to A power). Sprints, hills and flats are all fair game now and attacks (which is what I like doing in races) seem to work a bit more with the pack dynamics changes 😀.

Those struggling with being lower end of a Zwift category should have a look at events running with results based categorisation from a 3rd party like Zwift Racing app. Not really any that are just turn up and ride, but DRS is the biggest series running it, and a not so subtle plug for my own Club Ladder league. Both of them are team based series so you'll need to get some friends together, or join an existing team.

Category Enforcement C allows you do up to ~4.1W/Kg for 6mins (zMAP) and ~3.7W/Kg for 20mins without getting a promotion after the race providing your zFTP is >200W, as the zFTP limit of 3.36W/Kg is ambiguously for 40-60mins... Way higher than the old Zwiftpower best three average 95% of 20mins limit of 3.2W/Kg.

A pen ability range was reduced earlier in the year, at the cost of making pens B-D having huge ability ranges, making a borderline promotion very tough love.

Those struggling with being lower end of a Zwift category

i was at the top end of my zwift category and still got absolutely battered😂 obviously when things went up hill I was laughing, but there weren’t that many hilly races as I recall . The crits were by far the most fun.

I think they just needed to take the aero aspect of bigger riders more into account. Plenty of big guys in my club who put out way more power but keeping up with them isn’t a problem in real life as they are as aero as a brick.

the first stw race series was great. Although I’m still waiting for my t shirt for runners up spot that never materialized. I can only dream of being that fit nowadays. Injury and covid mean I reckon I’d struggle in the D cat right now 😢

Category Enforcement C allows you do up to ~4.2W/Kg for 6mins (zMAP) and ~3.7W/Kg for 20mins without getting a promotion after the race providing your zFTP is >200W, as the zFTP limit of 3.36W/Kg is ambiguously for 40-60mins

Jeepers... that ain't C... well, it's not the old C. It's clearly the new C and explains why i don't get anywhere near a podium any more.

I'll just have to try all the harder to get promoted and I'll be all the more pleased when I do.

I’ll just have to try all the harder to get promoted and I’ll be all the more pleased when I do.

Not happening in my world... I've been a B, a bad bad B for a while when at my peak and on a road-bike, but now and on a Hybrid that doesn't quite seem to make the 300w cruise needed for B as easily, i'm never getting out of C. Although that said, used a roadie a few weeks ago and still couldn't make the 300w cruise speed lol.

There's a few organisers that do variations on these super sprint races these days for hopefully improving your VO2 and your ability to repeat it again after a short recovery, but the Zwift Insider Tiny Races quartet within ~65mins usually gets good sized strong fields.

Quartets start at 1000, 1600 and 2200 BST.

Must do first race and any races finished after taking a break in the quartet will get a DQ ("no sniping rule," so in theory everyone is racing with the same accumilated fatigue, but so often fresh legs join for race 3/4).

This week it's increasing distances up to one full lap of Two Bridges, been run a couple of times this year and it's a lot more fun than running the same course four times suggests due to how they finish.

https://zwiftinsider.com/tiny-race-week-56/

Tiny races are excellent for racking up ZP points on the right courses for riders like me. 10 mins full chat, with 300+w average for it, yes please... Some of the flatter courses suit me perfectly... although as you'd imagine, i struggle on the summit finishes 😀

i was at the top end of my zwift category and still got absolutely battered😂

Should actually re-phrase..... everyone should give results based category races a shot, because they are just better!

I've been bumped to A and actually find the racing to generally be more consistent there. In B I found that 95% of the race people are sandbagging, and then smashing the last couple of km.

Cat A seems to be a more consistent pace throughout the race.

I’ve been bumped to A and actually find the racing to generally be more consistent there. In B I found that 95% of the race people are sandbagging, and then smashing the last couple of km.

Cat A seems to be a more consistent pace throughout the race.

I think if you're bumped to A legitimately this is what most find (ie. not some lightweight with high WKG who ends up in A due to the quirk of Zwift categorisation)

I am exactly some lightweight with high w/kg :p

I just have to hide in the pack and prey I don't get dropped before the hills

A is better racing than B definitely. B so often ends up being a slow procession to the sprint.

first race last night in a while.

https://zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=3843679

didn't seem quite so mental as it used to be but new jetblack turbo seems to have found me an extra 50W over my old kurt kinetic and blew through the C category limits.

tail end of B from now on then...

I'm going to restart my Zwift account after 18 months or so away. I've lost all my fitness as usual, so this should be fun. Even when I was on if fairly regularly, my FTP was only 215 or so. It's going to be a long hard winter.

so often ends up being a slow procession to the sprint.

Same as all C races. Another yesterday, Crit City, i tried 3 attacks but couldn't make any more than a 3s gap, as soon as you reach the cobbles you get caught by everyone in seconds, it's just instantly closed by the group. You need to pull at least a 6-7s i think and that takes 500w+ for a minute... If i could do that, i'd race in B 😀

I think thats the mistake i made last night, some hard efforts during the race up the short hills to try and break from the group and just got swallowed up again after. should have just sat in until the last hill up out of the tunnel and then gone. probably would have got in under the power limits.

Its very hard to judge I think because the demographic is not the same as a pro race (or a pro CX or XC short track race being more analogous to the shorter flatter races)

I skirt the borderline between healthy weight and overweight on a BMI chart; and Im closer to the top than the bottom of B category by W/kg.

If I got myself to the middle of healthy weight maintaining my FTP, I'd be well in to A cat with 4.3 W/kg.

I'm going to imagine that a lot of people who zwift, and zwift race regularly, but are not in a zwift race team or heavily focused on workouts (and so make up most of your opponents in an ad-hoc race) are going to be similar - fairly fit but unfocused and slightly porky recreational riders.

Basically, recreational riding isn't going to get you holding a minute at double your FTP (and still being able to carry on after) for a flat break, and too much beer and pizza means we aren't making a break on the uphills either.

A bunch sprint with no need for positioning/manouvering and zero risk of crashing is the obvious remaining tactic. It just comes down to how many people you can dro poff the back before that point.

It just comes down to how many people you can dro poff the back before that point.

That's kinda my tactic with a decent bunch, try and get a few out and whittle the group down. But even with say 25 in the group it's so so hard to get anyone out, or get out the front yourself... So you end up just sitting there bored and waiting for the last 500m. (admittedly bored at a high HR) but it doesn't make for exciting racing that's for sure.

I find in B only races I’m flat out the entire race so at the end I can only muster a 400-500w ‘sprint’ at best and that’s not enough.

On my last race I averaged 291w (ftp according to Zwift is 275w) for a 35 min race and came 79th out of 147 people - I definitely wasn’t sandbagging. I only held the 1st group for about a lap before dropping off and getting into a chunky size 2nd group. I tend to push at the front of the group where I can, as trying to pace myself in the middle tends to find me dropping off the back if I lose a bit of concentration.

Doing my first race in about 20 minutes....

catdras

Doing my first race in about 20 minutes….

Have fun.
You need to go harder than you think at the start. Hang on & it settles down.

20 seconds before the race starts push your watts up - ideally go off at 300-400 watts for a bit 

After a summer of building work the garage is nearly back in my hands so not entirely looking forward to seeing how much fitness ive lost. Preparing for dry heaving and wobbly legs sometime next week.

Some races like Team Electric Spirit at 1215 Mon-Fri have all categories race together, making them even more of a baptism of fire if you are a C/D rider desperately trying to keep up with the main pack including A/Bs during the insane 1-2mins at the race start.

But even with say 25 in the group it’s so so hard to get anyone out, or get out the front yourself… So you end up just sitting there bored and waiting for the last 500m. (admittedly bored at a high HR) but it doesn’t make for exciting racing that’s for sure.

Find a course that's got flat bits and hills. Stuff happens on the hills, you get attacks all over the place.

Find a course that’s got flat bits and hills. Stuff happens on the hills, you get attacks all over the place

Not a lot of use to me as i'm then one of the people getting dumped as the lighter riders his 4.5w/kg up the climbs.

Came 10th in cat D. 44:22.5 mins and 222 watts. It was stage 1 of Race Watopia. That last sprint hurts. Should have started further out. HR hit 201.

Looking forward to the next one!

20 seconds before the race starts push your watts up – ideally go off at 300-400 watts for a bit 

Try and cut it finer than this. My target is 500W off the line and I'll sit spinning around 200W while waiting. Ramp to 500W starts slowly at 20s and I only achieve launch power 1-2s before the off otherwise you are just wasting power. I then throttle back as soon as I can and let others do the work will the excitement dies a little. If you are right out front from the start then ease off.

But even with say 25 in the group it’s so so hard to get anyone out, or get out the front yourself… So you end up just sitting there bored and waiting for the last 500m. (admittedly bored at a high HR) but it doesn’t make for exciting racing that’s for sure.

It's a race with other people, if you want to win the race you'll have to have some race craft about you and do something better than the other 25 in your example and a lot of the time that's just being patient. If you could just ride off the front, would that be a fun exciting race? The group is whittled down over the lumps and bumps, whoever's left at the finish has to sprint it out. If you can't sprint then do some sprint training.

Try and cut it finer than this. My target is 500W off the line and I’ll sit spinning around 200W while waiting. Ramp to 500W starts slowly at 20s and I only achieve launch power 1-2s before the off otherwise you are just wasting power. I then throttle back as soon as I can and let others do the work will the excitement dies a little. If you are right out front from the start then ease off.

I just idle at 50rpm 100W right until 2 seconds then absolutely stamp on the pedals, it's your W at 0 seconds that matters so if you're spinning up 20 seconds before the start you are just tiring yourself out for no reason.

I guess what I mean is I ramp up at bit about 20 seconds out - but only hit the bigger numbers a couple of seconds before…

True but also need to get the blood pumping. I'm normally tight on warmup time so every little helps. Stamping on the pedals also hurts your legs more than spinning it up. The spin up is a slow increase.

As for the attacks if you attack enough and come back then it becomes expected. This can result in two effects. One the pack stops chasing which can open the opportunity to a deeper attempt. Or two someone will decide to join you.

The main reason I hoof it at the start is to get a 1st/XX screenshot and then slow down to a wheezing crawl once that's done.
Coach Robbo doesn't approve.

Out of curiosity are people doing full gas standing sprints at the end of races?

I am so in the habit of not standing on my indoor trainer that it only occurred to me recently that people might be doing proper out the saddle efforts... which might explain my dire finishes even when I manage to hang on to the lead group to the last km(s)

At the start I always aim for FTP+30% for a few mins which seems to at least give me enough room to adjust slightly upwards or down as needed depending on how manic it is

Out of curiosity are people doing full gas standing sprints at the end of races?

Of course, if I have the energy! Why ride all that way and not go flat out? Don't you want to win? 😉

I am a reasonable sprinter but I lose out big time when I just hang onto the bunch, because some people are cruising so have plenty in the tank and I'm knackered.

Duggan
Full Member
Out of curiosity are people doing full gas standing sprints at the end of races?

I am so in the habit of not standing on my indoor trainer that it only occurred to me recently that people might be doing proper out the saddle efforts…

I think you already know the answer to this but yes, yes they are. Don't think there are many people in the world about to put out their peak power whilst seated

I've just spent between 20 mins and an hour near max heart rate, for the chance to sprint for the win, I am 100% standing and giving it my absolute all.

Well after 6 months off Zwift and getting placed back in D class I finally "won" a race!

I'm sure after a couple of weeks back on it I'll be back to finishing middle of the pack in C as per usual 😀

I did a race a couple of weeks back and thanks to Zwift's (not ZP) new categorisation, it's bumped me to Cat B. To be fair, I did win the Cat C race but only because of went on a kamikazi break and the other 30 riders just marked each other - so it does occasionally happen. However, I agree. Normally, any semblence of organisation results in no breaks forming or them no lasting long.

Not so enthused about doing a Cat B race until I bump the FTP a bit more over the Autumn/Winter. Tour of Watopia is good for racing in non-races.

I’ve not raced on Zwift since well before category enforcement came in. Looking forward to giving some races a shot again this winter. Just need to shake this post-covid fatigue first 🤦‍♂️ had it a week so far, hopefully it’ll clear up soon enough. Took 2-3 weeks to feel back to normal when I had it last year FFS.

Managed a few easy spins on Zwift this week without too much drama.