I left my pride & joy to get serviced for the first time to a rather large and well known bike shop on Tuesday. I needed the brakes bled and the rear bushing replaced. I also asked them to look at the shocks and Chris King hubs to see if they needed serviced – but phone me before they did any work. They asked if I wanted the gears checked but I specifically said no. I gave them a phone on Thursday evening but they said the bike probably wasn’t done and confirmed they would definitely phone before they commenced any work.
I got a text today (Friday morning) saying the bike was ready and just picked it up. Both shocks and hubs were serviced and brakes were bled resulting in a bill of £200 without phoning me as I requested. On first inspection the works looks good and it needed done. The mechanic also said he replaced the bushing and a nipple without charge. Fair enough. But what has annoyed me is the have removed my expensive gore-tex inner cables, threw them in the bin and replaced with Shimano inners (charging me £8 for the privilege). I did argue I didn’t want this done and they should have phoned me before doing this.
Am I within my right to make further complaints about this or should I just suck it up?
If you asked them to bleed the brakes then you can't complain that they did it, however, they should have phoned you as requested about the other stuff. But if you have no written record of what you requested and there is no recording on the phones (if you requested by phone) then there probably won't be much you can do about it legally. However, I would definitely be complaining to the store manager about the poor service and not using them again.
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I would have though that replacing the cables was pretty standard as part of the stuff you [b]always[/b] do as part of a 'service'.
On first inspection the works looks good and it needed done.
Leave it at that.
No written records needed in this scenario.
I'd complain, their stupidity, but you'd hope the work needed done though, in which case you will have had value for what you pay.
Dunno, but I reckon I'm one of the few here that could pronounce the OP's name. 🙂
Thanks L.M.Panda - its more the fact they have changed my cables for a lower spec and charged me for it 🙁
How were your gears, and have they explained why they changed the inners?
To be honest apart from the cables, if you acknowledge the rest needed doing and asked them to check it doesn't seem unreasonable and they've saved you trouble.
I would be complaining yes.
It's illegal to demand payment for unsolicited services. If they've carried out the work without your approval then you shouldn't have to pay for it. Proving it, however, might be tricky.
If they'd phoned and said "we need to do all this work, it'll be £200" would you have told them to go ahead? Whether or not the answer is "yes" would affect how I'd want to proceed if it were me.
At the very least I'd be writing a letter so that the next customer doesn't get similarly bitten. Though if it's the store I'm thinking of, when I wrote to complain about something the manager wrote back ostensibly calling me a liar. So good luck with that.
its more the fact they have changed my cables for a lower spec and charged me for it
If you took the bike in for a "service", they almost certainly have a list of things that they do on a standard service. Is this change on the list? If not, then it's unsolicited; if so then it's your own fault for not reading what work was included.
I specified what work needed done (I have this on e-mail and they have it on their computer system). This didn’t include the gears or cables being looked at. I don’t mind paying for the work I requested and I’m sure it is done well. I'm happy to pay for the shocks, hubs & brakes service. I'm not happy the cables have been changed. A quick spin round the car park and the gear cables don’t feel as smooth….
A few points.
You do have rights in this situation but sadly you have missed a few elements that will prevent you progressing the issue further
You have to agree a limit to the costs at the start.
As long as you are specific about the type of work you want done then you don’t have to pay for unauthorised work. This is covered by the Consumers Act.
You made sure you were clear about what you want from the start but missed setting the limits of costs (which is required by the act to protect yourself).
the problem is in case law it's been clarified as
"- at a reasonable charge, if no price is agreed beforehand"
Depends if you see the charge as resonable.
If they estimated the costs again this would help.
Sounds like it may be one of those "lessons learnt" situations.
I would just ask them to replace the cable with gore for no cost and leave it at that
If there really is a difference (not sure there is - my older Gore cables came with inners which look just like standard stainless ones, it's only the outers which are fancy), then I reckon you've got a case for asking them to restore the bike to the condition it was in before - ie replacement Gore inners.
rockhopper +1 - posted while I was typing
The workshop should have given you an option on cables, rather than fit standard replacements and they should have also consulted you before doing any work out of your plan.
Too many mechanics are afraid to speak with their customers or to charge them correctly for work done.
I'd go in and complain but complain really nicely and you'll likely get a money off voucher for next time. But yeah otherwise suck it up.
t's illegal to demand payment for unsolicited services.
What do you mean by illegal?
At the very least I'd be writing a letter so that the next customer doesn't get similarly bitten.
I think you may not be as influential as you think.
Thanks for all you input guys.
unless you've got goretex cables and specifically tell them to leave well aloneI would have though that replacing the cables was pretty standard as part of the stuff you always do as part of a 'service'.
They asked if I wanted the gears checked but I specifically said no.
Sounds like there was a glitch in communication and the mechanic just got on with the work. They are in the wrong but if the work was done and probably needed doing I'd probably accept paying 50% of the bill (maybe some replacement goretex cables fitted FOC)
What do you mean by illegal?
I mean it's a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. What do you take it to mean?
I think you may not be as influential as you think.
Well, no, I'm assuming a reputable store that gives a toss about its customers, which is optimistic I know.
Evans?
I would have though that replacing the cables was pretty standard as part of the stuff you always do as part of a 'service'.
Err no. We don't.
What SHOULD happen is that you inspect the bike and agree what's to be done and quote a price. Record what's agreed and the price on the (electronic usually) job sheet.
If the mechanic finds anything else then he should call the customer and get them to agree to it BEFORE starting the work.
Anything else is unprofessional.
Most customers will gladly pay for a good, thorough job. Earlier this week I quoted £140 for a service that went to £235 in the end. That's the way it goes, and the customer was happy.
I'm fairly new to this game, but I'm sole mechanic in a well established West London LBS. That's how I operate. 🙂
Poddy, you're working in London? Cool, I may try and find you 🙂
£200 to get your bike serviced? I don't even pay that for my car.
General rule of workshops....
Bike is booked in with customers opinion of what needs done
Bike comes in and is briefly assessed to tally with what customer would like done vs. what can be seen needs done etc.
Bike is seen on specified day/slot - and assessed fully by mechanic
If within estimate given at brief inspection then proceed, if not..
Then make contact with customer to explain why the e.g. £45 estimate will not cover a rear hub service as thats found to be the culprit of dodgy shifting etc.
If no contact can be made, then personal call of do it or not is made. I.E if its a little over, e.g. estimate £40, actual £48, go for it. If nots more then do not proceed, do not pass go, do not collect £200
I'd have thought that was standard practise?
Esp with higher end bikes where you find exotic grades of bearings in them, exotic cables and pads etc, that your average LBS would just replace with standard, because either they don't know the difference, or no matter how fancy a cable is, its still kinked/corroded/frayed/buggered and a £2 std shimano is better in that situation
he should call the customer
That's all well and good as long as the customer answers his or her phone eh? 🙂
Mol, err not sure of the technicalities of "London" but it is to me! 🙂
Isleworth to be precise.
cables ~£2
Everything else ~£198. Would see you're point if you were grumbling about the big bit but really life's too short.
[quote=Cougar ]Well, no, I'm assuming a reputable store that gives a toss about its customers, which is optimistic I know.
Indeed
[quote=ChunkyMTB ]Evans?
[quote=thestabiliser ]cables ~£2
Everything else ~£198. Would see you're point if you were grumbling about the big bit but really life's too short.
You seem to have missed the point that he's grumbling about them downgrading his cables more than them charging him to do so. Well that and they actually charged him £8.
I'd still be more cheesed off about the £192
In all honesty you need to get a set of tools and learn how to do this all yourself.
There is no job on most bikes that 99% of people can't do themselves with a pretty basic 30 quid bike tool kit, a pair of circlip pliers and decent cable cutters. Even fixing wheels is pretty easy.
200 notes is expensive for something you could easily do.
goretex cables which presumably the OP considered to be in good working order and told the shop to leave alone £40ishcables ~£2
whilst only £8 of the bill he's actually down closer to £50 cablewise
fair enough - didnt pick up on the gore bit
OP - KILL, KILL, KILL
You seem to have missed the point that he's grumbling about them downgrading his cables more than them charging him to do so. Well that and they actually charged him £8.
This precisely. (£8 is ballpark for an inner + outer fitted)
IMO each bike should be assed at its reception by someone who is mechanically competent. If I'm in the shop I'll check every bike in if I can. My colleagues (who both know what they're doing) generally call me out of the workshop to do this. I go over it with a fine tooth comb. There's 2 reasons for this:
1) Customer perspective: if a bike is coming in for a service, it needs to last as long as possible before coming back and it's cheaper to get as much done as possible at once. The customer will also notice more difference the more thorough the service is
2) Shop perspective: I'm employed to sell a service. The more I can sell with that service the more money I make for the business. The better I can do that service as above, the better the reputation of the shop and the more likely the customer is to return.
Example: There's no point in doing a service and fitting just a new mech if the cables are gunked up. Sell the cables too, then the customer can really feel why he spent his money.
[quote=thestabiliser ]I'd still be more cheesed off about the £192
£192 for stuff he acknowledges needed doing.
aracer
send me you're email address so I can forward any post I'm about to make and you can tell how wrong it is, why and what to do about it.
s'ok - you put them up here and I'll do that for you FOC
I'd be pissed off but if it needed doing I'd just take it on the chin.
Lesson is to learn and do this stuff yourself. £200 is enough of an insensitive for me.
As for the cables, thought that was part/parcel of a service. I've never had fancy cables so can only imagine what your going through. Hmmmmm, nope, just go and ride.
In all honesty you need to get a set of tools and learn how to do this all yourself.
There is no job on most bikes that 99% of people can't do themselves with a pretty basic 30 quid bike tool kit, a pair of circlip pliers and decent cable cutters. Even fixing wheels is pretty easy.
200 notes is expensive for something you could easily do.
It's very easy to say that. And, to be honest, that's how I started.
But you have to realise WHY people go to a shop with their bike. Some people simply don't do mechanical things. They don't have the aptitude. Others do, but they don't have the time or the space to do it. Others simply have the money and will trust a mechanic to do it for them.
I get it. I understand why I'm working on other peoples bikes. I love spannering, I really do enjoy it, but I don't look down on people that can't or won't. 🙂
£192 for stuff he acknowledges needed doing.
Just because it needs doing, doesn't mean you have the money to do it, or even want to. I wouldn't be pleased at all. I'd want to know exactly how much it costs before making a decision, whether I do it now, next month when I get paid, or do it myself because I can't afford it.
That's without them touching parts that you requested to be left alone.
It never ceases to amaze me the absolutely trifling, petty insignificant nonsense that some people get worked up about on here. Amazing! 😯
I'm surprised some of you poor little bunnies can sleep at night
Just because it needs doing, doesn't mean you have the money to do it, or even want to. I wouldn't be pleased at all. I'd want to know exactly how much it costs before making a decision, whether I do it now, next month when I get paid, or do it myself because I can't afford it.That's without them touching parts that you requested to be left alone.
Yeah, so there.
Next time, ask me to service it. I do everything for cost & curry money. I do it for the looooove of tinkering. That goes for anyone in and around Mancland as well.
helpmybike@yahoo.co.uk
[quote=joolsburger]In all honesty you need to get a set of tools and learn how to do this all yourself.
There is no job on most bikes that 99% of people can't do themselves with a pretty basic 30 quid bike tool kit, a pair of circlip pliers and decent cable cutters. Even fixing wheels is pretty easy.
200 notes is expensive for something you could easily do.
Does the same apply to cars? Ok so the tools might be a bit more, but a lot of them aren't - just that nobody seems to be telling me to DIY on a garage job costing £300 in labour, which I could do myself (and probably have all the tools for). In fact I have just done a job which would likely have cost >£50 in labour, but I have my limits and don't do engine out jobs and the like!
I haven't ever paid a bike shop to do work for me and have built several bikes from scratch (as in hubs, rims and spokes level), but I don't see what's so wrong with people paying to have stuff done.
£200 to service a bicycle - you'd have to be stark staring mad. For that you could buy all the tools, all the consumables and still have change for a pub lunch for a family of 4.
The tag up there ^^ says it all
£200 to service a bicycle - you'd have to be stark staring mad. For that you could buy all the tools, all the consumables and still have change for a pub lunch for a family of 4.
Once you have bought the tools, and had your lunch, do you know how to operate said tools? or have the time to learn? 🙄
Tell them to get the cables out of the bin, pretty sure Gore have stopped doing gear cables a while ago.
I looked and seemed everywhere was out of stock.
If you have exposed gear cables you will really miss the full length inner liner thing, especially with the current weather.
£200 to service a bicycle - you'd have to be stark staring mad.
Indeed. My mate who isn't 'into' cycling as such, but commutes daily on a cheap Boardman hard tail was quoted £250 for a service by Evans last week. Its not even got any suspension FFS! He nearly had a coronary!! I bought him a new cassette, chain, rings, cables, jockey wheels, and we replaced everything for the princely sum of £85 in an hour or so.
Considering what they'll be paying for parts, how much I imagine they pay in wages, shops like Evans must be making an absolute killing!!!
Yes, I know I should service everything myself. I expected to get flamed for this but bear in mind:
1. Some of the tools required (e.g. Chris King Hub Service Tool) are quite expensive.
2. I really don’t have much free time so if I have half –a-day per week I would much prefer to ride the bike than tinker.
3. Most importantly I am completely abysmal to servicing or anything mechanical. Just don’t have the aptitude for it all. I’m fine fettling with gears, brake pads, etc but when it comes to the suspension I’d prefer pay to someone competent.
ChunkyMTB – No it wasn’t Evans.
Therealhops – Thanks for the offer (I’m sure you will swamped) but I’m a bit too far from Mancland!
I used to do all the work on my old hard tail but they were v brakes,I had to send my bike to the shop this week to bleed the brakes,fit a new headset and sort the du bushings in my shock out,always feels more solid when someone else has done the work,cost me £65 and I'm pleased,i would have stated that I didn't want my upgraded components changing and iff I sent it for a service you can safely say they have free reigns on your bike.
There was a thread about car tires last night and it's probably he same with big bike shops,if you take it there it's going to be on the dear side rather than cheap.
Cougar - Moderator
What do you mean by illegal?
I mean it's a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. What do you take it to mean
I don't take it to mean anything, which is why I asked. Its a vague term commonly used by armchair lawyers.
And...what binners said.
£200 to service a bicycle - you'd have to be stark staring mad. For that you could buy all the tools, all the consumables and still have change for a pub lunch for a family of 4.
No, you wouldn't. Read my post above.
Just because YOU can, doesn't mean everyone can. Or want to.
Can you service forks? Shocks? Remove stuck BBs etc? I can.
The other day I took a headset out that you wouldn't believe the state of, or how difficult it was to get out. But I had the tools and resources to do it. For £20......
Anyone can be the internet mechanic. I have been, for sure.
But once you see what really can happen to a bike, and what you can be called on to fix professionally, everything changes, believe me. Until you've worked in a shop, you really have no idea. There's not a day goes by when I don't see something new and learn something. 🙂
Sadly, most of the "new" I see in my work are new levels or neglect or shitness of bike...
PeterPoddy - MemberMol, err not sure of the technicalities of "London" but it is to me!
Isleworth to be precise.
well o/t but what shop? one of the girl who rides with us was bigging up new mecahnic out that way who'd sorted out her brakes and gears recently, have to see if it was you 😉
Gore stopped making cables at the end of 2012 ,and the cable inners were not that special just some kind of PTFE coating ,It was that combined with the full length liners and sealed ferrules that made them 'Special'.
I have never had a problem running decent quality stainless inners, I find the bigger gains to be found with smooth shifting are by decent cable routing ie.nice smooth bends , combined with clean cable cuts and a bit of attention spent making sure the outer cable is deburred and using metal ferrules.
Agreed that they should have called you beforehand though its just good practise.
I haven't worked in a bike shop for 8 years now but since leaving I have noticed service prices going up very sharply. My LBS now charges £70 to fit the bike to you - when I was working in the trade that came for free with the bike! As cycling has got more popular there are more people who are prepared to pay excessive amounts of money. I thought the same when I saw the service costs in PC World.
Anyway I digress....
Servicing shocks and Chris King hubs often requires specialist tools. Most chain stores don't have these tools - it would cost a fortune to equip all the shops. Therefore, they send them off for servicing. Bike in on Tuesday and done by Friday seems very quick to me. It was a least a week last time I sent a shock off. I'm just a bit dubious about what sort of service they did on the hubs and shocks.
What this forum needs is a complete set of You Tube videos on how to repair/service a bike. Tools are getting cheaper and there is always a bodge to avoid the expensive tools. There always seem to be people here have spent an bikes worth of cash on getting stuff fixed.
But you have to realise WHY people go to a shop with their bike. Some people simply don't do mechanical things. They don't have the aptitude. Others do, but they don't have the time or the space to do it. Others simply have the money and will trust a mechanic to do it for them.
This is a very sensible comment. 🙂
It is difficult for me to organise my working week so that any spannering happens in the evenings. That means it has to happen during the weekend, otherwise known as "riding time".
I'll do a job if I can see what needs to be done, know I have the tools and spares ready to hand and am confident I can do it so as to have the bike running again inside about an hour or two. Otherwise I'm delighted to pay someone else to do the job while I'm doing my job so that I can be riding the bike when I'm not doing my job. That includes paying someone a material proportion of the bike's value to get it running nicely again in the spring.
EDIT: I do indeed have a fair amount of money available. I quite like using it to buy myself more time riding a bike that works, rather than using it to buy a more expensive bike that I have to spend sunny Saturday fettling with.
I wouldn't trust any bike shop to service my bikes for me.
I've learned to do it all myself.
My gob is smacked by this thread
its a bike not the space shuttle .
all you shiny arses who say they cant do a simple service on a bike
what happens when you have a breakage out on the ride .
or is there a cycling equivalent of the AA
£200 to get your bike serviced? I don't even pay that for my car.
I rarely spend that on my car servicing either. The thing is, a £200 bike service is more likely to have labour around £60/£140 parts. A car service for me would be more likely to be £50 parts and £150 labour!
I've carried out services on bikes in the past few years totalling £550+. A fox fork with a new csu and shock service along with a new drive and pads gets you up there with ease.
What this forum needs is a complete set of You Tube videos on how to repair/service a bike. Tools are getting cheaper and there is always a bodge to avoid the expensive tools. There always seem to be people here have spent an bikes worth of cash on getting stuff fixed.
Yeah, well, a 'bodge' is usually a half-assed way of doing something that should be done properly. I can, and do, service a fair bit on my bikes, but I draw the line at bb's, headsets, hubs, and suspension, [i]especially[/i] suspension! There's a whole universe of hurt waiting for the time a stanchion tube gets gouged, either by improper fitting of bushes, or just ham-fisted fitting, and if that's going to happen, I want the person responsible to mend it with a new part, and I don't want that person to be me!
I want a professional job done, and I'm not a professional.
I can bleed Hope brakes, and I can do complete drive trains, although I find setting gears up a royal pita; as it happens, my hooligan Inbred has full length cables, which so far have lasted the life of the bike using SRAM X7 gears, about seven years, so far.
Do we really need to service everything in the first place I have never had a service on the disc brake (oil) on one of my bikes. The rear is rim brake and I have replaced the rear wheel 4 times due to ware. Seems a bit of con in the first place.
Some brakes benefit from new oil every so often more than others. If you never changed the oil in the likes of a Formula Oro that's about 5 years old, it's likely to have brake fluid looking more like milk in it. Some other brakes around that age could still be running fresh looking fluid and seals fit enough for it's first ever bleed. The build up of old brake fluid in the Oro and the effect it has on the seals compared to the state of the internals on a shimano brake of the same age could be night and day. One costing a straight forward bleed.. the other costing quite a bit more in seals.Sometimes people leave brakes too late and it ends up being more cost effective to just buy a new brake. A syringe of fluid each year can save quite a bit if you can be bothered to keep on top of it.
.martinxyz - Member
A syringe of fluid each year can save quite a bit if you can be bothered to keep on top of it.
Noted
Servicing a car includes changing the oils and filters and any wear parts like brake pads. Most people allow their bike cables to get into a shocking condition then they complain about poor shifting. If I was servicing bikes I would tell customers that a full cable change was standard, part of the service.
As above, I am also gobsmacked that people actually entrust their bikes to SOMEONE ELSE to do their servicing. What happens if something needs adjusting in between services? They deserve to be ripped off.
Ludicrous comment.
What if you live in a flat and don't have a garage? Service it in the living room? Remember, some of us actually have girlfriends or wives.
I could probably do most jobs myself if I tried but chose not to. Mine goes into lbs for repairs. With work, family & hobbies bike time is limited so I wouldn't give up a ride to learn how to do a job I don't like doing.
What if you live in a flat and don't have a garage? Service it in the living room? Remember, some of us actually have girlfriends or wives.
Yeah but we have kitchens.
. globalti - Member
Servicing a car includes changing the oils and filters and any wear parts like brake pads. Most people allow their bike cables to get into a shocking condition then they complain about poor shifting. If I was servicing bikes I would tell customers that a full cable change was standard, part of the service.
We are talking about bicycles not cars. Changing cables when they work okay is way of ripping people off. NO bicycle mechanic I have taken a bike to will point things [u]that need doing[/u] not what he wants to make money on. The mechanics that has done work for me said although the outer is worn it has an inner sheath so don't worry about it.
Is this a product of using small one man band shops?
. Getting those derailer just right is a real pain. Unless you do it everyday I could have pushed the bike the 6 miles to the shop and got it done quicker. And paid him a £10 (tip included).therag - Member
I could probably do most jobs myself if I tried but chose not to.
None of that applies to me other than doing a job I don't like doing. Sorting the maintenance problems by moving to hub gears and disc brakes. That should reduce it to a minimum. As I don't drive I think I was saving enough money to pay for a mechanic to do the job.Mine goes into lbs for repairs. With work, family & hobbies bike time is limited so I wouldn't give up a ride to learn how to do a job I don't like doing.
I have feeling that a lot of people like playing with there bikes more than riding them. They love spending time cleaning and adjusting stuff more than actually using it. Years ago before cars became so complicated you would see the same people fiddling with there cars every weekend. Nothing wrong with that of course but they should not expect the rest of us to have the same interest! 😕
sometimes I do wonder the amount of Pristine bikes you see on here without a scratch on them puggles me, how is that even possible, are there no rocks stones where people live? 😆They love spending time cleaning and adjusting stuff more than actually using it.
As for the op, meh it needed done anyhow, pay up learn from experience and find a cheaper bike shop next time and learn to fix more bits yourself. No idea where ye are but her mam Willie brain in Glasgow is cheap as chips.
As for gore cable, ye were robbed in the first place anyway.
OP - I agree they have taken a liberty.
. Getting those derailer just right is a real pain. Unless you do it everyday I could have pushed the bike the 6 miles to the shop and got it done quicker. And paid him a £10 (tip included)
Seriously, it doesn't take long to get the hang of gear adjusting.
I could probably do most jobs myself if I tried but chose not to. Mine goes into lbs for repairs. With work, family & hobbies bike time is limited so I wouldn't give up a ride to learn how to do a job I don't like doing.
My thoughts exactly! As I pick up knowledge/experience that makes servicing easier I'm doing more of it but I love riding my bike whilst I tolerate having to work on it.
Seriously, it doesn't take long to get the hang of gear adjusting.
Although that was true for me, is it true for everyone? Some people find riding big drops and jumps easy, some don't. Some people find fixing mechanical things easy, some don't. Some people find maths easy, some don't.
It's the lack of understanding of peoples' differences that is the root of so many arguments on here (and everywhere else!)