[Closed] Yeti 575 v Spicy - Why does the Yeti climb so much better?

Spicys seem to have pretty slack head angles

They also have very slack seat angles (so very far back with the seat up), the 316 I rode had a layback post and was clamped quite far back on the saddle rails and I didn't get on with it (until I moved the saddle fully forward)

Could be something to do with that?

How was it easier? Was it easier to spin the cranks? Did it lose traction less on technical bits? Did the front end wander/lift less? Did it bob less?

We neeed more, goddammit.

Yetis do climb incredibly well.
The MBR review of the Zesty said it was a tad sluggish on the climbs.
Isn't the Spicy the longer travel version?

Thanks James.

I don't think I'm saying that the Spicy climbed badly, it was probably as good as my current 4" Stumpjumper (which has a steeper head angle at 70 degrees). It was more that the Yeti just seemed to want to run up the hills in a way I've never felt before... it felt like every time I pressed the pedals there was no wallow, no sogginess, the bike just moved.

I know the Yeti has the PR23 shock rather than the RP2, I don't know if that makes a difference? Or is it that it's a single pivot which I'm not used to? Or is it that the wheelbase is shorter on the Yeti? Or might it just be shock set up? Am confused!

my Yeti is crap at climbing - but only when I ride it

They are quite fast bikes TBH - the only problem I find is that it struggles in tight corners

Sorry, first time I've ever posted on here so bear with me and ask questions of what you need to know.

My partner rode behind, he said there was no bob on either bike.
The Yeti felt like much less effort.
The climb wasn't technically difficult so there was no risk of front-wheel rising and no risk of spinning wheels or losing traction.
The difference seemed to be that there was no wallow, no softness, it seemed very direct.

This is only my second attempt at buying a full-suss bike but have test ridden lots that didn't feel this good uphill.

Problem is the Spicy and the Zesty feel sooooo good going down. If they could climb the same as the Yeti I'd be a dead happy girl!

Wow, breakneckspeed, I thought the Yeti's other strength was the really, really tight switchbacks... but maybe that's cos I had the XS which is tiny.

Could be the suspension design: The horst link design of the Spicy does have a tendency to bob and therefore suck up energy: My Titus Motolite bobbed a fair bit. I have since moved to a longer travel, slacker angled, heavier bike (Banshee Rune) and it climbs far better than my Titus ever did, solely due to the suspension design (kind of VPP design)

Mine is also an xs - it may be the 150mm forks on it or that my other bike is an old skool orange clockwork - the handeling is very good in general but most of my riding is woodland and tight switchbacks at slow speed do seem difficult

no idea, but i sold my yeti asr (575 'lil brother) because it was just too quick uphill, i coulnt pace myself!

Only thing thats come close was a giant maestro. Didn't like specializeds, dont ask/know why. Maybe one design is squatting (horst's do?) and the other is extending (single pivot yeti) meaning when you mash the pedal the suspension on the yeti in effect throwing your weight forewards where as the laperier/spesh squash themselves into the ground.

To test or prove that you'd need to test another couple of bikes. Say an orange 5, trance and hemlock with long plates. I suspect you may find the orange and trance to your liking, and the hemlock not?

I owned a 575 before i changed it for a Spicy. The 575 definately was a more efficient climber. My Yeti was a comparable build (160mm up front) and weight to my Spicy but going downhill its the Spicy all the way.

Yetis do climb incredibly well.

[img] [/img]

🙂

I expect the biggest fator was that the sizes and geometry were different, meaning that your weight distribution was difference on each of the bikes.

You were probably further back on the lapierre, meaning more sag at the rear and a lighter front end.

Gosh, selling a bike cos it was too fast uphill?!

I really struggle uphill so the Yeti seemed to be the answer to all my efforts. But I ride bikes for the downhills and the Spicy and Zesty both put a huge grin on my face on the dropoffs and rocky terrain which the Yeti didn't (feels a bit 'over the front' on big steps). I think I'd rather keep the grin-factor on the downhills and keep struggling up if I can't have both.

I have also tested the Trance, new Blur LT, Mojo, Pace 405. I'd discounted the Orange 5 as I wanted to get sub 27lbs and sorry but I find it dead ugly. Liked the Blur (but maybe wait for carbon version)and Mojo but not so keen on the Trance or Pace. None of them climbed like the Yeti. I'm limited a bit by standover and reach as I'm only 5'3". Will happily go top of the range to reduce weight and get the 'perfect' bike. Want to test a Motolite but can't get a demo in small.

If anyone suggests a cheap girl's bike in pink with a flower...

Ah, there was 20+mm difference in effective top tube length between the two bikes so what you say, scienceofficer, could well be the case.

So if I want a non single-pivot suspension design for the downhilling, I need to aim for a slightly shorter top tube to help the climbing?

Hmmmm... the Yeti I tested didn't look quite like that!!

No. You need to make sure the bike fits you right!
😀

design for the downhilling

To be honest I would stay away from the Motolite, if that is the case. Although I enjoyed mine, I found it suffered from the "feels a bit 'over the front' on big steps" characteristic you refer to, even with 140mm Pikes, plus the front end had a tendency to wander on steep climbs.

Isn't the Spicy a much "bigger" bike than the 575? If you're wanting a more direct comparison I'd say the Zesty would be the one to look at. I've spent a lot of time riding both (own a 714) and the Zesty is the faster climber in my experience.

Which model Spicy did you try by the way?

You're right. I'm not actually thinking of buying the Spicy, I'm thinking of buying the 714 Zesty 😉

I first found I liked it when I tested the female geometry 514L Zesty but I wanted a higher, lighter spec so have been trying to test the small male geometry Zesty for months. It seems impossible to get hold of them as test bikes so when Dalby said they had a Spicy (same frame sizes/shapes I gather) I thought that was a good way to find out if the body fit was ok.

I know it's convoluted but getting hold of high spec bikes to test in small is a nightmare!

It was the 516 that I tested in small.

[i]you're right. I'm not actually thinking of buying the Spicy, I'm
thinking of buying the 714 Zesty[/i]

I said that! way up there ^^^ !

Sorry DezB, you did. Took us a while to catch up!

So I guess the bottom line is...

I love the Zesty but it's a little bit too long for me. With a very short stem (650) it's pretty much there.

Is there any way I can make it climb more like the Yeti and is it a mistake buying a bike that I suspect may be just a little tad too long? Can I just move the seat forward a tad or will that impact the effectiveness of the suspension?

The Zesty 714 is a much better climber than the Spicy 516 - although the bikes are quite similar in some respects the combination of all the small differences has quite a large effect on the various ride qualities...

It's rare that people run bikes completely as standard fitwise but there's a massive difference between "tweaking" a bike to get the perfect fit and bodging a bike which is way to big/small!

out of interest where did you get to test all those bikes?

A couple of questions: did you try altering the shock pressure on either bike? And did you alter the fore and aft set up on the saddles? A harder shock or a saddle placed a little further forward will also improve climbing.
I test rode a Meta 4 a long time ago, and it rode horribly. It wasn't until I put the correct shock pressure in that it started riding 'properly' - I'd forgotten to check the settings before bounding out of the shop. I liked it so much with the proper setting, I bought one...

Most of the bikes I tested at various Demo Days. I think there is one at Donnington Park this weekend but not sure which makes are there. The Yeti and Spicy I tested at Dalby Purple Mountain Bikes. Tested Zesty on road only at Nirvana Cycles in Westcott near Dorking. Quench at Bedgebury have Lapierre demos but not my size. Stif near Leeds have demo bikes in SCruz, Ibis, Trek and others. Leisure Lakes near Nottingham have Orange, Yeti, Trek, Spec test bikes. I gather Mountain Trax near Bracknell have lots of demo bikes and have been recommended. Jackie at Beyond Mountain Bikes near Guildford is excellent for advice but takes a bit longer to get demo bike.

Hope that helps.

We did set the suspension sag before we set off and I did alter the air pressure a little during the trail but you're right the Yeti may have been set harder. The Yeti also had an inline seat post and the Lapierre had a setback.

I think I may be becoming convinced that the Zesty is the one!! 😉

Thanks JVC

haha, maybe i was a bit unspecific with that statement.

It climbed faster than i could, so i was always knackered at the top, it could co with a lot more power than i could put down. I'd rather have a bike that encourages me to winch to the top and hoon down again. Big hardtails suit me nicely 🙂

Why don't you get the Zesty 514 L and then 'pimp it up'?! (i.e. change the sec to your suiting) If it fits really well and the men's version is a bit of a compromise in that regard, then I'd say it would be worth the hassle. A good shop might even trade the bits over for you and get you to just pay the difference. Plus you can have all the uber light pretty and shiney bits you want!

Btw, I'm a 5'3" woman and am testing the Zesty L next week so am pretty chuffed you found it fitted well! (Oh and, the Orange may be ugly but it is sooooooo fun!)

JVC

I own quite afew lapierres throughout the range, and as an ex owner of a 575 I cansafely say both bikes are completely different.

for a better comparisson ther zesty would be better, as travel is similar plus weight and typical builds.

My experience of the 575 that it was light and climbed well, ubfortub=nately it is also very flexy on the descents and i didnt like it for cornering especially in alpine conditions where i regularly ride.

I have various spicys and I they are very fast machines, both up but especially down, the slack angles, long wheelbase but short reach = excellent handling and great for lomg techy descents (lapierre and nico tested them where I live) on the climbs i find them better than Giant (bikes I used to own).

If you are in the south east, check out nirvana cycles, they have a zesty 514 you can try, very nice machine.

I cannot understand when going for a 6inch travel bike people are more oncerned about its climbing abilities than its descending abilities? can someone explain this to nme as surely the fun mtb'ing is going DH!!!!

for the recorf I was chatting with Geg Germain (a french enduro champion) and he said the lapierres were gat at climbng but not as good DH!!!

Make of it as you want

ciao for now

Ah Mountain Monkey, good to hear there are more short women out there on bikes! I'd suggest that you maybe get them to put a shorter stem on the test bike even with the 514L as it's still pretty long in the top tube, unless you're very long in the body of course.

Good thought re building the 514L up to better spec and I have looked at that but 1) I want the carbon rear triangle which only comes on the 714 and 914 frames, not available for girls ;( and 2) I can't buy a bike with a flower on it! and 3) It is proving quite hard to get component changes on Lapierres. Oh, and the black 714 is beautiful.

Good luck with your test ride, I'm sure you'll love it, downhills fantastically well!

Thanks Nasher.

Glad you like the Lapierres so much.

Nirvana do indeed have a 514 but not in my size, they did get me a small 714 that I could test but only on road - not a very useful test really. You may have seen it in their window as they kept it there for a while.

The reason I'm concerned about the climb is that I know the Zesty and Spicy descend like a dream... and I can be in the front few of the crowd on the descents. But then I have to get back up the hill again which is my main weakness and I start to drop behind. Anything I can do to find a bike that plays to my strengths, makes me smile AND helps with my weaknesses too is the perfect bike!!

Thanks JCV - I'll make sure I've got a couple of spare stems to try out. Can you remember what length stem it comes with? I couldn't tell from the measurements on their site how long the frame comes up but just figured as it's a women's design it's got to be better than the standard...

Totally understand what you're saying about the necessity of a higher spec frame - I hadn't realised that the higher end ones have a rear carbon triange (very nice btw)

I'm a bit concerned about the flower thing though - does the 514L have a flower on it?! Not that that would stop me as it is a very good looking frame, but nonetheless it is concerning!

Anyway - good luck finding the perfect compromise! (I'm having enough trouble deciding between the 2 I've ridden!)

Thanks for all the comments, really useful!

Will go buy a Zesty tomorrow 😉 Best discount I've found so far is 10%, anyone know where I might get better?

Also keen to swap out Fox Float 140 RLC for a TALAS, shops so far aren't keen as Floats arrive cut down already. Anyone know a shop that might build me the bike with the TALAS forks?

MM, If I remember rightly the Ladies is only a few mm shorter in the top tube and EXACTLY the same in all other measurements as the male bike but would need to go back and check my notes.

It comes with about an 800mm stem which I changed for a 650mm (it may be an oversized handlebar so your stems may not fit)

The Zesty male geometry has 575mm top tube, my current bike has 551 so couple of cms difference. I think the female was 570. Most of the other bikes I tested were more similar to my current bike, the Zesty is def longer!

The ladies has a small flower on the top 😉 just so you remember you're a girl whenever you look down... condescending, huh? Otherwise it looked really nice but the boys colours look better. The white male 514 looks great.

[i]My experience of the 575 that it was light and climbed well, ubfortunately it is also very flexy on the descents [/i]

Hmm, well I don't notice that on mine (and I'm 13st) so I reckon a rider of a XS one isn't going to!

Still, I sure the Lapierre is just as good a bike, in different ways, certainly great value for money.

Pics when you've got it JCB??

Cool - thanks JVC - that's really good to know. That's pretty interesting as I thought it'd be shorter than the Men's Orange five, but it's actually slightly longer...Hmmm...

(Anyway, I've got a 70mm O/S stem so will probably wack that on - thanks for the tip)

Oh and a little flower on the Lappy is nothing compared to the 'barbie pink' Orange Diva! Still, I can't say too much as Orange have been very good to me - plus hopefully the men's 14" will fit! 😀

I found the Zesty climbed really well (and is quicker than I'm prepared to go DH :p ), pity you couldn't get hold of a small demo though. Front-end is a bit light on steep techy climbs but that's to be expected, think I'll swap the forks for the 2010 Rev U-turns when they come out (although the Fox RL the 314 comes with is better than I expected).

I have a zesty 714 (last years non-carbon model - carbon is for fishing rods, not bikes)
I have also test ridden a 575 at wheelbase in the lakes.

as others have said, the 575 is flexy in the rear end, pretty spritely though. I don't like that wierd carbon pivot thing in the seatstays either.
zesty has a longer top tube which has allowed me to run a 50mm stem
I suspect the 575 could be built lighter

zesty basically fit me better, is stiff in the rear end with a 10mm bolt through axle
get rid of those fox forks off it (I have pikes on mine) as they will undoubtedly leak
I'll be taking it to the alps this year (doing passportes on it as a test before 2 weeks later in the year) will be interesting to see how it holds up versus my nomad

I don't like that wierd carbon pivot thing in the seatstays either.

dasnut - sounds like you rode the earlier version 575 - the new one is a lot stiffer?

 

it was the new one - its that thin bit on the seatstay I am refering to....