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Running Butcher T9s front and rear ,do a great job off road but in between road bits boy the front sticks like the proverbial to a blanket ! I know it's what it's meant to do but I wonder if something like a High Roller would be better ?
If I could turn back time.
Anyway, butcher T9 f+r!? Stick a purgatory T7 on the back and you'll be fine.
If I could turn back time.
Anyway, butcher T9 f+r!? Stick a purgatory T7 on the back and you'll be fine.
The highroller 2 isn't especially fast on tarmac either tbh and you'll give up more grip than you really gain in speed (not because of hte speed vs grip thing, just because butchers are really good and highroller 2s are just OK. IMO of course)
Confusingly they seem to be packaging the new highroller 3 as just the highroller so if you do go this route watch out for that - the HR3 is a lot of tyre, I've still not ridden one but it's going to be slower than your butchers.
You could pick up a little speed with a T7 rear butcher and keep much of the same behaviour, just with a bit less outright grip. I've not used the current Purgatory T7 but it's basically "one step faster" in both tread and compound and could make a lot of sense. The Eliminator's the next step out but (imo) not that great. Depending on what you ride, tread grip or rubber grip can be more or less important so you might be able to gain speed without actually losing much.
Carcass is the other thing, people always think of tyre drag in terms of grip and knobbles but a big part is hysteresis, essentially tyre lag- the tyre deforms as you roll, and the less compliant the carcass is the slower it can get out of your way. Gets multiplied if you like low pressures or are a big un because it deforms more. This is way more obvious with tarmac miles because it also scales up with speed- if the tyre is still able to flex quickly and get out of your way it's not so draggy, but once you exceed that it's like pushing a bow-wave of tyre and so the drag goes up massively. This is really obvious on fatbikes or plus tyres but every tyre does it to some extent and on tarmac you're way more likely to hit that speed while pedalling and suddenly it's like you're pushing against a wall.
So a lighter weight or more compliant (which usualyl means more tpi) tyre can be quite a lot faster even if the tread and compound are identical. So if you're on a gravity or grid trail carcass now you might be able to go down a level, just obviously be careful of losing puncture resistance.
A T9 Butcher is going to be similar to a MaxxGrip HR - it’s the compound doing a lot of the damage here. Whatever you get look at getting a harder compound on the rear than the T9 (eg T7 or MaxxTerra)
Thanks @mashr and @Northwind thanks for the advice 👍I've looked again the rear isn't a T9 it's Gripton 2bliss which I guess is the older version? So would it be worth swapping them over ? Another option I've got is a Maxxis Dissector 3C Maxxterra I guess that's no benefit?
you're welcome 😉
a maxterra will roll faster than a maxxgrip or a T9 IMO. also, shit wheels roll shit. spend a few bob on those if you've got crap ones.
I've checked again , the rear isn't a T9 just Gripton so swap them over or not worth it ? Another option I've got is a Maxxis Dissector 3C Maxxterra? Thanks @mashr and @Northwind
Double post
Yeah, leaving the older gripton butcher on would be fine. If you want a faster rear then a dissector/eliminator type tyre is ok, but better when the trails are dry. Fwiw I have t9 butchers front and rear and it's ok, but it's only a mile or so of road to put up with for me so ok.
Can't hurt to put the dissector on though. Grip on the front and speed on the back can work really well sometimes. I really don't like 'em at all but better riders than me get good results out of them... And since you have it, it's got to be worth the experiment.
(basically, I hate how they slide, very unpredictable imo. I don't mind a low grip fast tyre, I use rockrazors more than is smart and I was out at the golfie today on an aggressor and they're not much good, but those slide nicely, you can skitter around the edge of grip, catch side slides at least some of the time, and just let it go when there's no choice... I don't feel comfortable doing any of that with a dissector, which means riding within the traction and being super cautious, just no fun. But like i say that might be a skills thing or even just a perception thing)
Leave the front as it is - look to make speed savings on the back like a few people have said.
It’s always going to be a balance of speed vs grip.
If you already have the dissector then try that - it’ll roll faster than a T9 butcher - but in mud it will get overwhelmed. Depends where your priority lies.
The old Maxxis Forekaster (if you can find one) was great on the back as an aggressive xc tyre in exo+ casing. Found surprising grip in the mud and rolled along quite well.
I always think the Maxxis DHR2 in the 2.3” size rolls pretty well for a tyre with decent winter grip. Don’t get the 2.4” though for what you’re after - that’s a chunk bulkier / slower as the knibs are bigger. I’d go 3c maxx terra as it find better grip on slimy rocks etc than the standard dual compound one.
Casing is important here too - I’ve mentioned exo+ above which has done the job alright for my riding. It’s probably similar to Specialized Grid Trail in strength. If your a butchers are Grod Gravity then on maxxis you’re going to want double down casing.
Other tyres you could look at are T7 Purgatory / Schwalbe Nobby Nic / Conti Xynotal - all of which are probably nearer the dissector than the DHR2 for outright mud grip.
Dissectors are my favourite rear DH/enduro tyres. They don't brake as well as a DHR but they're not bad, they roll faster and they're lighter. They're not as 'solid' (can't think of a good word) through corners as they slide a bit and then catch but I find that makes them loads of fun, especially with the extra speed. Maybe not as great in the mud, but way better than you'd expect. I'd probably stick a DHR on for a wet race, but otherwise I rate Dissectors.
I've just stuck a new Forekaster on for more trail stuff and that's ace too. Rolls really well, feels nippy and agile and while it's not amazing on steep off-piste stuff, it's definitely not stopping me having fun.
(For what it's worth, I've got a T9 Butcher on the front at the mo and that's ace too!)
I really like the T7 (aka old Gripton) Butcher 2.3 (measures 2.4”) as an all conditions rear tyre. Rolls pretty well, good cornering, braking and pedalling grip, wears amazingly well considering it’s almost as grippy a compound as MaxTerra. T9 is better up front for sure but wears so much faster and rolls a fair bit slower. That all in Grid or Grid Trail versions.
It’s actually on the back of my commuter bike all the time!
This afternoon I tried the wheel with a Dissector on seems a lot better rolling than the Butcher , might swap them over the Butcher should work well on the EBike