I've been riding in Morzine pretty regularly through the season so far and now I have two weeks of riding ahead of me.
I have a long term borderline carpal tunnel problem that I manage through sleeping in wrist supports and the occasional ibuprofen when it gets bad. It is now, officially, bad. Yeah, I know. Don't ride Morzine, idiot.
Bike is a Devinci Spartan. Fork is the original fitment Dual Air Pike RC 160, freshly serviced. Grips are the locals' favourite Ourys. Bar is a Renthal fatbar carbon. Brake levers are levelled out. Brake reach is nice and close to the bar. Shock on the bike is a Vivid Air and it is really apparent that the back of the bike is unflustered in places where the fork gets out of its depth.
I've been keeping a log of my fork settings as I've tried pretty much every available combination. Yesterday's gambit was to drop the air pressure a smidge (90psi down to 86 psi) which eased the ride feel until I started hitting the steeper, faster sections on the Pleney black, so i guess the dropped air pressure was keeping the top end supple on the lesser trails and then I was getting battered by the brake bumps deep into the travel.
Saving my wrists is important. I'm 47 years old and injuries don't solve themselves any more.
Can I fix this with bottomless tokens, or is the Pike outgunned to the point that it is new fork time?
A new Lyrik would certainly give you a bit more comfort and control, but I couldn't promise it would solve your problem.
I think that bike deserves a Lyrik anyway though, so why not give it a whirl.
Ride different trails at least some of the time. Off-piste is less harsh on the body than pounding the purpose built trails.
Part of the problem IMO is where you are riding.
We're out here, and haven't been here for probably 3/4 years now, but the tracks, as always, are in a sh*t state.
Most of the mainline stuff is hilarious. They arnt just braking bumps in most cases, they are craters, literally smashed to bits.
I've experienced more arm pump here in a day than a whole season in Whistler. Maintenance is borderline non existent, so in 10 years nothing changes.
You have to go off piste and ride some of the locals stuff if you want to be able to feel your hands at the end of the day, the downside to that for some will be the off piste stuff on Pleney & SM is on the rowdy side of steep.
The only 'official' stuff I've ridden that's not been wrecked is the stuff at the top of Super Morzine. But then there are only so many berms & table tops I can stomach. Still at least up there they can build a corner that means you don't have to brake half way round it because it finishes 1/3 too soon (Les Gets bikepark).
I think I've just been spoilt elsewhere. We're still enjoying it, just not as much as before.
Have you tried rotating your brake levers back down a bit?
Carpal tunnel is an RSI often caused by typing or using a mouse with the wrist bent back (wrist and forearm on the desk), the solution is to bend the wrist the other way (I.e. brake levers down).
Try ESI Chunky non loc on silicone grips. Really helped me with my hands.
Hob Nob has the answer.
Hob Nob get sessioning walker's trail,no way that can have braking bumps!
OP Hob Nob is right what you are riding is most of the problem, I'm 26, reasonably fit and have my forks perfectly dialled yet still suffered a little bit. What might help marginally though is speeding your rebound up at 86psi so when you're on the steep bits the forks might not pack down as much. Might not be any better but that's what I'd try
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fast-damper-tune-mini-review#post-7881188
I'm getting a lot less spiking in my Pike with this. It also allows you to run the fork more on the compression circuits than the spring, so you can set it up softer if you really want.
You can't fix it with bottomless tokens, that makes the fork spikier - you want more linearity and better compression support and less spiking from the compression circuits - so that the fork blows off nicely on square edge/high speed hits.
You could swap out the dual air spring out for a coil from CRConception and get loads more sensitivity as well.
You're riding an Enduro bike on trails that challenge a DH bike - what do you expect? Get out and do some exploring more in keeping with everything you said above. The PDS is a big place and you don't have to ride Pleney (I'd actively avoid it)
Downhill bike
mike smith/speeder has it...
I had wrist surgery last year so have to look after mine too..
done 3 weeks there this year, 1 on a dh and 2 on a strive, definitely better on a dh, but with the esi chunkies on I dont suffer any issues anymore so maybe try those..
Thanks for all the great suggestions.
What I'm hearing from the consensus is either:
1) avoid the craters
or
2) equipment makes a difference and I'm expecting too much from the DPA Pike
Tom, thanks for the link to your FAST upgrade experiences. Makes interesting reading. Probably not something I can execute in a matter of days.
Thisisnotaspoon, thanks for the levers suggestion. I think I'm at a good middle ground at the moment. I'll maybe give them a nudge just to confirm.
Chrishc77, thanks for the suggestion on the rebound. With the drop in pressure I did speed it up and it felt good in lots of places... until the bumps combined with a bit of steepness. It feels like I'm hunting for the narrowest of sweet spots.
Researching fork options at the moment. Lyrik is in contention. I've had good experiences with Bos before, tuning out brake bumps, but find it hard to believe a design from 2010 is still in the peer group with the latest options. Fox is more money. My wheels can do 15mm or 20mm.
I've been sold on the promise that Enduro bikes are just like mini DH bikes. Whaddya mean the marketing men lied?
I think hobnob probably has the best advice, can you go and ride stuff without braking bumps instead?
I know how ruined I was after one day at pila last month, which is in a similarly bad way this year.
Otherwise a 170mm lyrik will help, but It's unlikely to be a night and day difference.
Same where I am, the blue trails are in a right state now and the braking bumps are just comedy bad. ESI grips have helped me, as has a pre-emptive ibuprofen!
Don't forget the ESI's! game changer for me..
Ok. Started reading up on the ESIs
I've been sold on the promise that Enduro bikes are just like mini DH bikes. Whaddya mean the marketing men lied?
They are, just like mini DH bikes IE not like DH bikes, so something you can pedal up and around and still smash down some runs. If your going to be hitting the sort of rutted, stutter bumps that I'm assuming have made their annual appearance then it'd going to be harder work.
Tom, thanks for the link to your FAST upgrade experiences. Makes interesting reading. Probably not something I can execute in a matter of days.
Send your fork to TF tuned tomorrow and it will be back by Friday.
If you're going to get a Lyrik, get one from TF Tuned with two spring assemblies, one for 180mm and one for 160mm. 170mm won't be enough of a difference for you to feel that "wow" factor - 180 will and the increased BB height and 1 degree slacker head angle will be useful on steep rocky alpine terrain. Whilst 160mm is IMO the perfect setting for most enduro bikes in the UK. If you really want to go the whole hog, TF Tuned will sell you a lyrik with the FAST damper upgrade.
One of the biggest differences I've found with braking bumps was dropping tyre pressure to 20 PSI, so dual ply tyres are a must - but procore would allow you to drop down to 14 PSI and really ring the final few percent of comfort out of your bike.
EDIT: I see you edited your post 🙂
All this costs money for negligible gains - the biggest difference will be gained by really smashing it on the cardio fitness before you go.
Its his wrists that hurt, he has carpel tunnel.
As I and others suggested he needs to ride something other than rutted bike park trails.
Yup - I forgot this thread wasn't about arm pump.
He could stay away from rutted park trails - but then he's going to have to stay clear of all but smooth alpine trails - my experience of much of the off piste stuff was that it was very technical.
Personally, If I had carpel - I'd be going out on a DH bike. But a 180mm fork will get you a reasonable way to that level of comfort. Still, a 200mm dual crown is the same length as a 180mm singlecrown - time to downduro his bike maybe? 😆
A 160mm 29er with heavy duty plus tyres in it for alpine trips) are probably what 650b plus tyres are perfectly suited to - giving more comfort to either new or injured riders.
Hi Tom,
I'd been thinking about going direct to tf. Not thought of the two air spring assemblies. That is very tempting.
I had a bit of an overnight think about the steep braking bumps conundrum and how my latest changes in setup might have made it worse.
I'd raised my bar height for Friday's riding. Dropped it back by 5mm today and then the front was too low. Put back in the pressure I'd taken out and I was riding straight and level again but the fork was going to have a bit more in reserve.
Then had a rethink on the damping. Figured the main aim was to keep things from packing so took the rebound to the faster end of where I've been testing and then a click or so more. Wanted to prevent the new, looser rebound circuit from having to cope all the time with all my bump energy, so cranked the compression further closed than I've ever tried before. On the RC damper I ended up on 8 clicks out of 0-10.
I've been bashing out a load of test runs, tipping the rebound back and forth on a 4 click span and...
... On slow rebound I'm able to get tingling wrists from a single short run
... On fast rebound I'm aware of the mayhem but it isn't beating me up in the same way
The compression damping setting really seems to be the key to it.
Sag looks to be 22%. Rider weight probably 95kg loaded up. This may be as good as the Pike gets for me. I've not thrown it up against Pleney yet but it feels like a much more realistic reflection of the performance I'd expect from the Pike.
If I still find myself looking to buy my way out of trouble a 180mm lyrik is definitely high up the list.
Yeah, the middleish LSC settings on the FAST mod is like 2 from closed on the standard RCT3 damper - but without the associated spiking. It is a known issue that the ports flow too much oil through them on the standard Pike so that adding LSC doesn't make much of a difference until you get towards the closed end of the fork.
I really think - if I were to buy a new air fork tomorrow, it would be a Lyrik direct from TF tuned with two spring assays (160mm and 180mm) and the FAST mod. Quite a lot of money though, for the extra spring assay and the damper tune.
My dads Lyrik does feel a lot more sensitive as well, so that will help on top of the extra travel.
Have a look at the AWK mod as well, which you can order through a user at mtb-news.de - adds a second chamber to the Pike... a bit like the Ohlins fork so that you can run a more linear fork and still keep some midstroke support.
I might add that if you do get the FAST tune with the Lyriks, make sure you tell TF Tuned about your issues with your hands - that you are looking for comfort first and control second. I'm pretty sure they'll able to do something for you that would cut down on some of the feedback caused by the damping.
Following the best advice on this thread, I've been avoiding the worst of the bumps. Wrists are back to stable function and don't feel beaten up at all after 3.5 hours on the bike.
Maybe, just maybe my settings on the fork are helping. I was able to hit some high speed sections into some braking bumps with everything feeling confident and comfortable. Nothing extended, but encouraging all the same.
No call made to TF yet. Might be I don't need a FAST Lyrik after all. Shame.