[Closed] Would you buy a UK made light anymore?

Yes, I have a trout light and an exposure light. Although my next light will be another exposure as having bought a cable free helmet light I want one for the bars too.

absolutely.

which is why i shop at USE exposure for almost all my lighting needs......(except when i wanted a road legal / car friendly beamed light for road use in the city - so i bought german)

the lads do a cracking job with product development - might not be the brightest but they dont release them full of glitches like other brands AHEM Lupine. and they stand behind their products for years - i had a 7 year old maxx D repaired for 15 quid a year or so ago after dropping it onto monoblocks. AND they support events around the uk with prizes , back up lighting , charging stations etc

whats not to like.

broken down into years of use the exposures have been a bargain.

Yip. Lumicycle for me for I guess much same reasons.

Yes

Mtb batteries, brilliant back up, great product at good prices, won't burn your house down while recharging.

Wouldn't buy anything other than Exposure.

Lumicycle on my bars, Exposure on my noggin.

Would buy again for both.

The only reason can possibly be because you feel the need to support UK production. Makes no economic sense at all from what I can see.

I made my own years ago when the current generation of LEDs were first released - was ahead of the curve for a while (even before Troutie et al were working with those LEDs), yet I struggle to justify the idea of updating what I have rather than just buying off the shelf something made in the far east.

Yep, I would. Four4th user here and very happy

http://four4th.co.uk

I probably would, if it was a snazzy, road suitable, all in one unit that ran on removable cells. A bit like a torch I guess, but with an ideal beam pattern.

"The only reason can possibly be because you feel the need to support UK production. Makes no economic sense at all from what I can see."

Hands up all those with what are now 8 year old chinese lights used pretty much daily during winter that still work , still perform well , and still have spares back up ?

Where does one get the chinese equivalent of a revo ?

Maybe.

I considered 4fourth when buying my last lamp. But even if they are better in every single way, they're not (to me) £300 better than my Chinese lamps, bright enough, wide enough, reliable enough, more than cheap enough. They do look cool though.

Yes - top end uk stuff such as exposure and four4th is very good with great race/event support and back-up.

Very crowded market now. I think you'd need it to do something that the others don't or appeal to the hand made, bespoke crowd. Those that don't like the Chinese lights have plenty of options. I made my own for many years but the latest Chinese ones are hard to beat and made the exercise pointless IMO. Yes the batteries and chargers are questionable but they are easily replaced with the same (chinese made) units sold by the UK sellers.

Another happy Four4th user. Over 5 years running a Genesis which still works perfectly and is still on the same battery so great vfm considering how often I ride at night. Plus the head unit is nice and small and weighs just 63g so it isn't noticeable on the helmet.

Hands up all those with what are now 8 year old chinese lights used pretty much daily during winter that still work , still perform well , and still have spares back up ?

You'd probably be on to a winner if you could integrate the battery - Exposure rule the roost on the point and for good reasons as stated above.
For service and longevity, I am completely happy with my Exposures

Makes no economic sense at all from what I can see.

I don't agree. They make economic sense because they're great quality, last and if they do have a problem, back-up is great. (Good support at events too). Can't stand outboard batteries too.

And I like supporting the UK where I can. So yes, total economic sense.

+another for Exposure. I buy them because they're bloody good lights, that they're made in the UK is a happy bonus.

Hands up all those with what are now 8 year old chinese lights used pretty much daily during winter that still work , still perform well , and still have spares back up ?

Before LED's took off I had some bodged together (Q5 LED?) 250lumen lights, 4 of them, powered from a bank of AA batteries. They outlived their usefulness.

My original 'bastid' P7 is still going strong on the commuter, on it's original battery!

My Smudge lumenator battery died.

My new Nitefighter BT70 Chinese light is doing fine.

Part of the point of chinese lights is I'll never need spares backup for the Magicshine (although there are spares available) because having cost about £5/year over that time it owes me nothing. If it had cost £200+ for the equivalent USE or Hope lamp dam right I'd expect it to be repairable in perpetuity, but that's not the point.

[quote=nickjb ]Yes the batteries and chargers are questionable but they are easily replaced with the same (chinese made) units sold by the UK sellers.

I wouldn't trust batteries and chargers direct from China, but then my "Chinese" light was bought through candbeseen - so not quite as cheap as the direct route, but still far cheaper than UK produced and with UK support and I presume decent batteries and charger. Though I'm using either my home-made charger or proper RC ones, and quite capable of rolling my own batteries (was rebuilding LiIon laptop packs for my Lumicycle lights when they still only supplied NiMH packs).

sounds like you used some shit lights if thats the case.

Id rather a quality product that lasts and doesnt let me down or need replacing often.

I've got a C&BSeen light and a different one I got from Ebay (Chinese).
The C&BSeen battery is dead and the Chinese one is still working fine (used about the same amount).
I only use the C&BSeen charger though.

I realise that they are both produced in China and I paid a bit more for the QC of the C&BSeen unit. I'd pay slightly more for a light with a decent battery and charger but cannot justify the outlay for Exposure etc given that I don't use them every day in the winter / race with them etc.

I'd definitely consider paying more for a self contained light for helmet use, but again, not Exposure price levels.

*Edit* I'd also pay for a decent guaranteed battery pack, waterproof etc (maybe with the option of a reliable charger) to pair with my existing lights. That might be worth looking at producing?

Si

[quote=rone ]

Makes no economic sense at all from what I can see.

You don't appear to have justified your assertion, not when mine cost 20% of a UK made one - no obvious problems with the quality, and as suggested above if it failed who cares about the back-up when you can just buy another one and still be quids in. Not that I'm seeing lots of reports of them failing.

Of course there are other reasons you might buy a £200 light, but economics isn't one.

I just did buy a British 'sourced' light a few weeks back.

Mainly for back up and communication ease. MTB batteries were great when one of the lights developed a fault. Repaired for free, and back within 4 days. Great to deal with, and their 'Lumen 2200 light is very bright, well made and reliable.

Saving a few extra pounds has always been a path to disappointment IMO.

Just ordered an exposure diabolo.
I don't want to charge stuff in a pan outside. I wanted a quality light that would last a long time and be backed up. The cost is reasonable.
Im relegating my 5 year old Ay up lights to bar & back up duty. But as a true 500 lumen each lamp with good optics they are still good lights.
Cost per use is tiny.

[quote=lardman ]Saving a few extra pounds has always been a path to disappointment IMO.

Strangely enough that's not been the experience of most of us who have bought Chinese made lights.

"if it failed who cares about the back-up "

depends if your riding for fun or racing/training i guess....

always fun waiting for your new light to come from china 70% of the way through a 24 hour race.

edit * strangely enough around here on group rides its always the chinese lights that give mid ride issues - normally cutting out completely never to illuminate again but we have had such gems as the bracket comming to pieces on rocky descents , we once had a battery catch fire - which somehow ended up under my car while smoking like ****.

twas entertaining times.

Of course there are other reasons you might buy a £200 light, but economics isn't one.

It depends, doesn't it? If, objectively, we agree that a UK-made light is "better" in some way, then it's simply a case of how much that's worth to you.

always fun waiting for your new light to come from china 70% of the way through a 24 hour race.

"if it failed who cares about the back-up "

depends if your riding for fun or racing/training i guess....

always fun waiting for your new light to come from china 70% of the way through a 24 hour race.

Except no ones had that?

In fact the only broken lights on this thread seem to be from Exposure, and Smudge.

[edit] you edited

Hope R4+ here, really nicely made bit of kit and bright enough

"Probably not that much worse than waiting 4 days to get it back from the UK supplier. "

what sort of events do you do that you would be waiting 4 days.....

the one time i had an issue with a lupine light i wandered over to the use stand and they lent me a light.

It was good

so i bought one - And every time ive been to a 24 hour event since - there they have been doing the same service.

Good lads.

Funnily enough I need a new 4-cell battery. Are Torchy's ones still alright?

[quote=trail_rat ]the one time i had an issue with a lupine light i wandered over to the use stand and they lent me a light.

So it appears you have a solution to your [s]Chinese[/s] German light failing part way through a 24 hour race. Though ISTM that spending £80 on two Chinese made lights would also be quite a good solution and likely to be more reliable than a single UK made light.

Solarstorm X2 has been good to me for about 3 years now. Makes a good head-mounted lamp.
Their XT40 has been in service on the bars for a couple of years but doesn't seam much more powerful than the x2, so I'm a bit underwhelmed with that.

Generally, up until a year or so ago, the outputs were rising rapidly year-on-year, so buying an expensive light that was made to last but would be outgunned within a year made little sense.
Performance seams to have plateaued a bit now, so I'd consider spending a bit more today.

Think I'll be buying a Hope R8 when the cycle2work thing comes around again. The light output and spread from that is way better than the XT40, so yes I'd buy a UK light now, though I haven't previously.

Four4th lights here. All good, no complaints and certainly no reason to buy Chinese.

I've got a Lupine from 8 years ago still works just fine and has a long run time , only 1000 lumens but with a helmet light that seems plenty. I have been on loads of group rides that have been spoilt by people having issues with cheap Chinese lights packing up mid ride and for that reason I am not a great fan . I'm sure all Chinese lights are not the same and obviously my light isn't made in Britain but I think that peace of mind is worth a bit extra , it's just about how much extra and does paying more always give you that.

Generally, up until a year or so ago, the outputs were rising rapidly year-on-year,

Performance seams to have plateaued a bit now, so I'd consider spending a bit more today.

I'll be using 1 for my helmet and 2 on my bars 🙂

[quote=stevied ]The LED manufactures have moved forward a bit in the last 6 months or so. You can now get 4000 lumens from a single LED

The efficiency hasn't changed much though*, so unless your rides are all 10 minutes long or you like carrying huge batteries, in a practical sense that makes no difference.

* and you have even more problems with heat dissipation from an LED with that much power going through it, not to mention the even more nerdy issue of a larger die size making optics less efficient.

The LED manufactures have moved forward a bit in the last 6 months or so. You can now get 4000 lumens from a single LED
I'll be using 1 for my helmet and 2 on my bars

I've got 2 higher end chinese lights, the excellent MJ872... They'd be 3 or 4 years old now, I've replaced the battery packs just because I don't take very good care of them and they're cheap. Everything else is good as new. I think I just timed it nicely just as lights got "good enough" and the lumen wars calmed down so there's nothing out there I'm really keen to upgrade to, chinese or UK.

No, they're not 8 years old. And that's a bonus, because it means I'm not using an 8 year old light. And I can do that because they're relatively inexpensive so I could buy a better light in the first place that's lasted a long time and remained competitive, but also I can replace it at will.

The heyday of the DIY superlights seems a bit past, to me- they really were kicking arse for a while but mainstream lights got better. I've a feeling that the more common really powerful lights got, the more the novelty wore off and the more potential buyers got a chance to see them in the real world and go, maybe not worth it.

So that largely leave the midrange ones and they compete directly with equivalently priced, high quality, more powerful chinese lamps. Once you get out of the bargain basement there's some great options- and that's more or less what a lot of the resellers are selling anyway. So you mostly get left with speed of delivery, and aftersales which quite likely you won't need.

I use Lumicycle's on the bars and a cheapo Chinese on my lid.

I love the Lumi's and while they're old (halogen) they seem to be indestructible and the battery seems as strong now as when new back in July 2010 - and they've been used pretty much every week on a regular 2hr night ride in the woods.

They're certainly proof that you don't need a ton of lumens to see in the dark and that the quality is worth the price.
That being said, to replace my set up from their current range would cost me at least double what I paid back in 2010, I'd love to buy from them again but they may well have priced me out of a repeat purchase 🙁
Been looking at the Hope stuff recently - R8 looks good.

I think I'm on my third of forth battery for the cheapo light in 2 years - it's done the job but I've certainly got what I paid for.

To the OP you are always going to have a small niche market for anything, even a pair of trousers from Hebden Bridge! Will it make you rich, no, will it be more hassle than its worth to you personally, yes.

Personally I will stick to Chinese lights that I can afford to change every 2-3 yrs

You don't appear to have justified your assertion, not when mine cost 20% of a UK made one - no obvious problems with the quality, and as suggested above if it failed who cares about the back-up when you can just buy another one and still be quids in. Not that I'm seeing lots of reports of them failing.

You will never be comparing like for like with the Chinese made stuff. That's why it's an almost irrelevant comparison.

You can always buy cheaper but it doesn't mean it's the same product.

I used to do a lot of night guiding for our club, and you could guarantee the thing that held it up the most was poor quality lights. Almost certainly the Ebay junk. Ruined lots of rides. You would then have to educate them about where your money goes.

N.B Clearly not all Chinese stuff is rubbish - the Chinese factories will build to spec whatever the *manufacturer/designer* wants them to build. But, it's mostly a cost exercise in my experience.

Clearly some parts for the Exposure lights are going to be of eastern origin but I put faith in them to source the better quality stuff - something I can't say a lot of Ebay imported stuff.

[img] [/img]

chinese lights on a chinese car 😀

I do think cheaply made lights have a place - they have a place for people who want to try night riding. Once they start getting regular use and further away from the car - i would encourage buying something better made.

I dont give night riding a second thought. ill go as far and as long as i do during the day - but thats only because i have confidence in my kit not failing. Nothing ive seen with imported lights first hand while out riding my bike has changed that opinion so far.

Oh and the lupine wasnt mine. it was loaned to me by lupine by prior agreement for the event they were supporting....but they were not interested in the fact it stopped working part way through the race - so my solution as you put it was highlighting the fact that USE stepped in above their duty and made sure i was kept rolling.

Ive had 2x Chinese lights fail on me mid ride. I've also witnessed others failing mid ride, over heating a common issue. As is loose connections.

Some Chinese lights are pretty good quality nowadays, but they tend to cost around £80-£100. So imho I'd rather pay double that, have excellent local support and have integrated batteries - far superior to carrying batteries around in bags.
You can usually pick up virtually new Max-Ds, 6 packs etc for 30/40/50% cheaper than list price - my latest maxx d cost me £175 and it's awesome. Bloody awesome in fact. If the Chinese fan boys could have a Maxx D for the price of their current light, they would.

Almost everyone I know with Chinese lights has had them fail mid night ride. My six year old Exposure Joystick, though totally outgunned in terms of brightness, has been faultless. As is the Strada on the bars. I'd have no hesitation buying Exposure lights again.

Most of the issues I've had/witnessed with Chinese lights are with the even cheaper copies of the solarstorms etc. The hardest part of buying them these days is being sure you have the genuine version.
I like exposure stuff but not a fan of their helmet mounts as they stick up quite a bit and I've seen a few get caught on low branches in the woods and new mounts aren't cheap. I use a magicshine mj880 which is about as good as it gets from China in terms of quality. It's small and lightweight so I can attach it to my peak.

Thinking about it, with the exception of the one dude that insists on buying the cheapest lights on ebay, most light failures I've seen have been Hope 😆

And joystick battery issues but that's not really a failing, it's just that they're powerful wee lights with little, fixed batteries so people screw up the battery management.

Hope Vision R1 and R2 for me. Designed, Built and Tested in Barnoldswick (so they say).

I dont give night riding a second thought. ill go as far and as long as i do during the day - but thats only because i have confidence in my kit not failing. Nothing ive seen with imported lights first hand while out riding my bike has changed that opinion so far.

Maybe. But others have no issues at all with them.

For balance I also bought a ####fire (cant remember which fire) branded 7000lumen Chinese light just to compare it and see what it was like. It was appalling. Battery died in minutes, replacement battery got warm, output was no more than 2000lumens, sealing was non existent. That's the kind of crap that fails.

So it's not Chinese lights in general that are the problem, there's 2 billion people in China, I'm sure someone somewhere is just as good at making lights as USE or Troute, it's the crap ones that are the problem. My cheapest (decent) light cost £50 (magicshine in the early days), the BT70 was quite a bit more (£100 IIRC) but does come with a proper Panasonic battery and even the cable is a heavier gauge wire (it needs to be, it draws 5A!).

If we were in the business of tarring all manufacturers with the same brush, we'd not touch USE with a barge pole, they'd be no better than a Rover 25 with a leaky head gasket compared to the Lupine BMW M3.

Presently 90% of my rides are in the evening. I use lights all year round; even in the summer on that last descent though the woods.

Lights are so essential to my riding that I don't mind paying for quality, or failing that, good support. My lights cost about 10% as much as my bike and I expect at least 5 years use from them, probably 7-8 IME. In the scheme of things, I would buy UK again, it's not much to pay for peace of mind.

The only reason can possibly be because you feel the need to support UK production. Makes no economic sense at all from what I can see.

I have a draw full of dead lights that say otherwise. Exposure everytime.

lumis were the first decent/high o/p set i bought. HID with li-ion. they lasted about 6 years, then i had ballast/bulb issues, so lobbed some of those new-fangled LEDs in the head, which lasted me another couple of years, and the battery started to die. that set relegated to commuting.
exposures now. if they last as well as the lumis i'll be happy. the cable free thing is great, clip on and go, no pissing about.
the times you end up waiting for guys on our weekly night ride, cocking about with cables, crappy velcro straps, poor mounts etc. i don't like being 'that guy' that puts everyone's ride on hold for a mechanical of any sort, let alone something very avoidable.
they have their place, they get people out riding, and that's great, but long term it's not for me. i would just find trying to use the chinese stuff frustrating, i can afford to pay for a better overall experience, so i do. supporting UK industry is a happy side-effect.
YMMV.

[quote=g5604 ]I have a draw full of dead lights that say otherwise. Exposure everytime.

Yet there are plenty of others on this thread with Chinese made lights which work perfectly, don't fail in the middle of a ride, have mounts which work great, last for 5 years etc. I'm not sure whether all the critics have just bought the cheapest no-name Chinese light available or they've not tried them at all, but clearly as mentioned several times there is a happy medium (which is still way, way cheaper) where you get decent quality. It's not even that hard to find - I mentioned the UK company I bought my Chinese made lights from earlier, and here's a link to what I own:
http://www.candb-seen.co.uk/product-green-1200-bike-light-kit.html

Oh and to come back to the economic argument, it produces light, it recharges when plugged in without blowing up, it has a switch to turn it on and off. I'm not quite sure what other features UK made ones have which makes it impossible to compare.

Buy cheap, buy twice, as my dad always says.
I'm going to agree with him on this one. Exposure user here, fellow night riding buddy has been through numerous lights in the same time I have had only one replacement exposure as the first got pinched out of the garage with the bike it was fixed to.
He hasn't spent any less than me, he has had more rides ruined By light failure and brackets breaking after crashes though.

Lights from China? Is China in the EU?

Oh and to come back to the economic argument, it produces light, it recharges when plugged in without blowing up, it has a switch to turn it on and off. I'm not quite sure what other features UK made ones have which makes it impossible to compare

Well in Exposures case:

Accurate digital fuel gauge

Reflex technology so it gets brighter as you go faster and dimmer when you go slower

Smart port

Plug in rear lights and front light boosters

PTO so you can use the battery to charge your phone/GPS

Tap control for helmet lights

Remote dip switch to change the output without taking your hands off the bars

Multiple modes so you have high/low or high/medium/low etc

Piggyback batteries.

Beam dispersers so they can be used as a lantern in a tent.

They really are very good and very clever. I take mine camping to provide light as well as power for phone etc. as well as lighting my winter commutes. I'm not sure any chinese lights can do the same thing. Of course whether the features are worth the money is up to you. For me, no question.

[quote=boriselbrus ]Well in Exposures case:...

A whole load of stuff which isn't particularly fundamental to the purpose of a bike light. Sure it's nice, but it's like having metallic paint and leather seats in a car.

I'm not sure any chinese lights can do the same thing. Of course whether the features are worth the money is up to you. For me, no question.

Some of those features are available if you want to pay more. For you it's apparently worth paying 6 or more times as much for the frills - fair enough, but given the primary purpose is fulfilled just as well by the cheaper one, the economic argument is flawed.

I've been slowly upgrading and modernising the same set of Lumicycles for years. I ride in some sh1te weather alone at night up here in the highlands and they have never let me down.

I've had a little cottage industry started by buying in the lamp units direct from China, but making up my own battery packs with branded batteries from LG or Panasonic and selling the kit with a Magicshine charger. Best of both worlds and everyone seems well chuffed so far.

Yes. My Exposure lights have been fantastic. I ride in the dark a lot and am quite time poor. Worth every penny for the features, reliability, build quality, support, etc. It's nice to have a reason to buy British, whether or not aracer, stw's most blinkered and argumentative man, thinks I'm wrong.

Yes. My Exposure lights have been fantastic. I ride in the dark a lot and am quite time poor. Worth every penny for the features, reliability, build quality, support, etc. It's nice to have a reason to buy British, whether or not aracer, stw's most blinkered and argumentative man, thinks I'm wrong.

This to the word. Except the personal insults.

I do also plan to have leather seats, metallic paint and maybe some kind of superfluous gadget (padded coin holder maybe) in my soon to be purchased replacement car.

I've had a couple of magic shine lights in the past and they were very good for the money. Now I have Exposure lights on my helmet and bars and can't think of any I'd rather have. They work brilliantly and the lack of cables is great. The fact they are a UK company based only a few miles away (even closer since they moved) is just a bonus

I do like Exposure's piggyback batteries. "Our USP is the self contained lights! You want a self contained light!" "But the battery's not very big" "We can sell you a remote battery!" "but now it's not self-contained" "Yeah you never wanted that really" "but..." "Look at the eyes, look directly at the eyes..."

I finally got a chance to try to reflex mode last year, it's as completely useless as I thought it was going to be. Slow technical section? Light goes low power. Cheers light. Does anyone actually use this for mountain biking? It doesn't detract from the light though and I quite liked the way these features basically heralded the end of the lumen war. "Look- gimmicks!"

I'd still like a joystick though. I use a cheap torch in a joystick mount to do the same job and it's adequate but it's nothing like as nice- much bigger and heavier.

I do use reflex mode on my maxx-d and don't give it a thought, just tap it on to low for any road sections so I don't blind drivers so much. I use the tap mode on my helmet light too. In both cases I like the gimmicks because I use them without thinking about using them

[quote=chiefgrooveguru ]aracer, stw's most blinkered and argumentative man, thinks I'm wrong.

Wow, I get that for pointing out that you can buy lights for a lot less money which don't have any of the problems which seem to put people off cheaper lights? I'm the blinkered one?

I do like Exposure's piggyback batteries

I'd opt for one of their lights with plenty of battery and only consider the piggy back as an emergency back up. The beauty of their lights is the all in one unit

No I wouldn't. Why? Because I bought a strada and a joystick five years ago and they have worked flawlessly ever since.

I have, however, just bought a 400 lumen Fly 12, which is broadly Joystick like in pattern with a built in HD camera.

I do like Exposure's piggyback batteries. "Our USP is the self contained lights! You want a self contained light!" "But the battery's not very big" "We can sell you a remote battery!" "but now it's not self-contained" "Yeah you never wanted that really" "but..." "Look at the eyes, look directly at the eyes..."

Its financially crippling, but, I have bought USE Exposure lights and it's been worth it. I value those few hours every week so much I'm glad I made the investment.

Others may disagree, but I've had cheap lights die completely and forever on me. I also dabble in racing when I can and the Exposure guys have been helpful, supportive and damn good chaps.

Seen as an investment in what I care about I don't resent the money spent one bit.

And I'm TIGHT.

I do 200miles a week on and off road. Before I got exposure lights I was lucky to get 3 months out of a light.

See sense - drowned
Knog x 3 - strap split
Moon comet - drowned
Chinese super cheap - battery would not hold charge
MTB batteries - battery dead after summer
Fibre flare - drowned

The exposure traceR is under £30 and is the only rear light to survive a winter.

Piggyback just means i dont have to carry around something weighing the same as a small sun on sub 6 hr rides.

But when it comes to riding a 24 i dont have to stop and charge/change my battery.

Although wi my revo- thats a thing of the past.