Would it help my status if that pace included 1,500ft of elevation gain. It's very hilly round here.
Just to twist the knife a little more I'd say that's not very hilly, you do more climbing in the Surrey Hills...
That course looks ace, but it'll be a total mare if it rains
Just to twist the knife a little more I'd say that's not very hilly, you do more climbing in the Surrey Hills...
not flat but certainly not steep, Glentress black is around 3700 ft of climbing in 17 mile for context...and it takes just over 2 hours if you are reasonably fit.
I think the main issue is the bursts of power these guys put in, you'd be nowhere near even with an extra 250 watts at hand. Take comfort in the fact that I reckon the average club rider would be competative at the tour on an ebike however, at least on the climbs (as long as the get to change the bike every climb to a fresh battery)
Someone did Dfyi enduro this year on a e-bike. I was stood next to him at the start. He then came past me on the first big climb weaving thru us mere mortals like we were going backwards. I believe he came second ( and was promptly disqualifed). Couldn't beat Nick Craig though but then not a lot of people can.
But the Dyfi is all long relatively smooth fire road climbing, with the odd exceptional, followed by long descents. Nothing like a WC XCO course at all.
So 15 miles, 1,500 ft in 2hrs
Conert to proper units 😉
24km, 460m in 2hrs. Thats not bad as a ride
This was Stage 1 of a pairs race I did
https://www.strava.com/activities/436215604
25km, 700m in 2hrs.
Rest of the results
http://my3.raceresult.com/45372/#1_51EA79
Winner is 1hr11, one of the pair has managed a top 50 in WC XC
So basically you are looking at needing to double your pace if you want to get close to not getting laped and pulled from the race.
Seriously without actually doing it the way to work out the difference in performance is (VO2+Epwr)/kg
I have no idea how this stacks up with other people but the only time I was actually measured with ergo/air bags (long, long time ago) it came out VO2max of 5300ml/min at 525W, so 10ml/W
Soo assume can do 70% of VO2max over the course of a race = 365W, add 100W of e-dope -> 465W then convert that back into VO2max = 6642ml/min doped VO2max and then just divide that by rider+edope weight to get relative per/kg performance.
It is pretty easy to guesstimate your VO2max by plugging in a time/distance from a flat run/ride into an online calculator.
That Kulhavy video, to my mind that's some seriously impressively skilled riding where I'm looking from. Never mind the pace.
No surprise there, of course, but still nice to see from on-board.
the other part twisty is that it's way more than physical these days although you need to be fit you also need a lot of skills to put that power down.
I'd say the issue is more down to he fact that you wouldn't be allowed to enter the race. So, no. 🙂
the other part twisty is that it's way more than physical these days although you need to be fit you also need a lot of skills to put that power down.
also combined with the fact you will be on a 25kg bike rather than a 10kg bike which will take it's toll when manoeuvring around the tricky course
That kulharvy vid. is the best I've seen of Rio so far.
That Rio course looks good.
Back to the original question, it depends how powerful the e-bike is, surely?
You might as well ask,
"would I win a world Cup XC on a classic twin-shock motocross bike?"
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Oddly enough, after posting on this yesterday, I left the work bike shed at the same time as a bloke on a Haibike. I joked with him about keeping up with him and he said something about it being one of the new ones and quite powerful. As we hit the main road, I was keeping up with him easily, couple of mph off my normal pace.. then he was slowing me down. I was freewheeling and cruising while he was pedaling away (I wasn't close enough to draft as I didn't want to upset him!)
So after a mile or so I overtook and made like Froom (with a rack & pannier 😆 )
A few miles later, going up a hill, I overtook a bloke with a IronMan "M" tattoo on his calf. That was more satisfying, but man, was I on it yesterday!
😀
ps. I'm not fast 🙂 [edit] this post was to say neither are ebikes!
The answer is obviously no, just based on skill levels. A better question is would an e-[b]road[/b] bike take a competent 3rd cat road racer to pro level - by which I mean competent domestique in the peloton, not GC or stage winner.
I think the answer is yes, an extra 150 Watts to my FTP would be very welcome indeed. I still wouldn't be next to Sagan on the sprints, but I would certainly be hanging with Froome on the climbs (300W is my climbing threshold and 4.2 W/kg).
That's why mechanical doping is a big thing in road racing now - forget 250 Watts, just adding an extra 50-100 Watts will be a huge advantage on the climbs.
ps. I'm not fast [edit] this post was to say neither are ebikes!
Went for a ride with my uncle who's a fair bit slower than me these days. I was on the road bike, he was on his new eMTB. Wasn't sure what to expect. It was pretty slow on the flat bits, I guess it's limited, and knobblies and a poor aero riding position probably doesn't help. Really slow on the downhill bits. Hit a hill though and it just didn't slow down as the assist really kicks in! Was amusing to watch. I'm 71kg and was riding a decent threshold pace (~350W) up some of the longer (5 to 10 min) climbs, unable to speak, and my uncle was just riding alongside chatting away. He could so easily have ridden away from me.
So eMTB on the road, slow on the flats, snail like on descents, bloody quick up the steep stuff!
That's why mechanical doping is a big thing in road racing now - forget 250 Watts, just adding an extra 50-100 Watts will be a huge advantage on the climbs.
Absolutely, at that level 50W would be huge (and probably pretty bloody obvious.) An [url= http://sportsscientists.com/2007/11/the-effect-of-epo-on-performance/ ]article a while back detailed EPO gains[/url], a motor is much more potent!
Simple answer, little to no hope I think .. On certain hills you could probably win a hill-climb TT though.
E-bikes don't simply add to your power in a linear manner though so it'd get complicated over time on a varied course. Before hitting the motor's max output an averagely fit rider would find the amount of pedal input required to get the assist is fairly minimal.Seriously without actually doing it the way to work out the difference in performance is (VO2+Epwr)/kg
also combined with the fact you will be on a 25kg bike rather than a 10kg bike
Most are 'only' +5 or 6kg over an non-E equivalent, unless you get into those 500W E-motorbike jobs with DH-like set ups.
Agreed though, if I was on an e-bike I think my upper body would give out first trying to keep up with top-level XC riders.
There is a tedious tendency on this forum to hit anyone on the chin immediately, if they lead with it. Rather than giving any potential naivety the benefit of the doubt by taking a more measured and rounded approach to forum replies.
Welcome to teh internetz petal.
Femke van den Driessche certainly thought they had a use! 😆
The vivax assist is less than a 2kg weight penalty incl battery and provides 200w for 60-90minutes depending on battery. While I wouldn't win a WC event, I'd certainly have a lot more KOMs to my name 😆
Agreed though, if I was on an e-bike I think my upper body would give out first trying to keep up with top-level XC riders
It would be a toss up between a broken collar bone and concussion for me!
ferrals - Member
The vivax assist is less than a 2kg weight penalty incl battery and provides 200w for 60-90minutes
<- sits at his desk dreaming of 250W for a cross race 
I'd be happy with an extra 50W 😉 . EPO gives about 4-6%, aero about 30W, iron supplements maybe 1%, losing 2kg weight another 3%. After than I need electrons 😉
250W would be much too obvious. Soflty, softly...
Most are 'only' +5 or 6kg over an non-E equivalent
Oh, wasn't aware of that. Which manufacturer sells 15kg eBikes?
Although the 2kg option up there sounds good. If only 2kg is being added then I would say the race against OP and world champ would be a lot closer. OP would still lose as they are one of the slowest riders in the UK (but at least they know that now as they have been told many times)
Oh, wasn't aware of that. Which manufacturer sells 15kg eBikes
When was 10kg 'normal'? Stick the same kit off your 10kg race bike onto an ebike and it'll be close I'll wager.
Which manufacturer sells 15kg eBikes?
I don't know tbh but a Shimano or Bosch system is about 6kg more (not the 5-6 I had in mind) than a std geared set up, plus a little for the frame drive unit mount and that's all you'd need to add. Pinnacle has a city E-bke with Shimano STEPs that's ~17kg with full guards and heavier duty rims and tyres so a 15kg MTB shouldn't be too difficult. Most are built to the fun end of things though, XC race spec on an E-bike seems a bit odd.
When was 10kg 'normal'? Stick the same kit off your 10kg race bike onto an ebike and it'll be close I'll wager.
As this thread is about XC World Cup then it makes sense to compare with the bike the XC riders would be using doesn't it, where 10kg is 'normal'.
The point is there is not a 15kg XC eBike available so the OP could not use one which is why I said the bike (a readily available bike not a hypothetical bike) would be closer to 25kg and much more of a handful than the imaginary 15kg XC eBike.
Which manufacturer sells 15kg eBikes?
The point is there is not a 15kg XC eBike available
13 kg XC ebike [url= http://ebike-mtb.com/en/revolution-focus-presents-sub-13-kg-e-mountainbike/ ]here[/url].
OP would still lose as they are one of the slowest riders in the UK (but at least they know that now as they have been told many times)
Brilliant, that made me proper laugh out loud!!!!
