Back on topic, I consider myself a hardy type but when I ventured past Watford Gap for last years 3 Peaks Cyclo X I discovered the real meaning of the word "Hills".
Damn that was tough!!!!
SFB - only from your photos which mainly seem to be rocky fireroads 😆
nice views, shame about a lot the trails....
wl - your right on most accounts, but our micro terrain has many many perfectly formed had made trails that are so much fun, built for riding bikes. Would glady show you around if your ever down here.
Plus its only really the Lakes that has the bigger descents.
Anyway its all riding and its all good - at least we don't live in Holland!
I'd quite like a few more man made trails with jumps etc up here - but I wouldn't like it if that was all there was.
There is loads of good trails in the Lakes in a pretty small area, the Dales has some nice stuff, North Wales and S Scotland are not far away - I'm sure there is good stuff down south but I struggle to see how it can be as good overall.
As said anyway, it's all relative and people in the Alps would probably look down their nose at most of the riding we have.
only from your photos which mainly seem to be rocky fireroads
we don't have much forest, so what you're seeing are ancient roads and packhorse trails, but I find them plenty rocky enough to make up for them not being narrow 🙂
"i get the impression that the north is filled with vast expanses of bleak moorland where no-one ever goes (except to bury/look for murder victims).
is this a generalisation? "
No..........It's what I can see out of my window now. If I had a telescope I probably could see people being buried, We've all done it.
Grum - is going up and down big hills all you enjoy about biking?
I think what we need is two STW rides where Northerners visit the South and vice versa.
Essentially a bloody silly thread - can't believe I have not only contributed to the nonsense, but am also adding to it again!
Just because an area might be regarded as not quite as good and varied, doesn't mean it is "crap". And as I pointed out before, you tend to grow to like what you've got (my point on that was predictably mis-quoted - I said that I preferred woodsy non-rocky stuff because that was what I was reared on, not that this added up to Surrey Hills being better - [b][i]I[/i][/b] prefer it because of my background).
As for all of the other bunkum about Southerners being less friendly and all that crap - well, its just bollocks, frankly. When you start with a shoulder-chipped prejudice you tend to remember only the encounters that confirm your original bias.
We've all done it.
"Are you [b]local [/b]??"
- is going up and down big hills all you enjoy about biking?
here's a clue: [b]mountain [/b]biking 🙂
If riding is so good down south why did they base singletrack towers UP NORTH ?
If riding is so good down south why did they base singletrack towers UP NORTH ?
Because that's where the bloke that had the idea lives? Long shot, I know.... 😉
MBR are in the South are they not? 🙂
Mbuk are from the south, Thats killed that arguement
What is this mbr and mbuk you speak of? Sorry I have heard children talk of these comics 😆
This argument is similar to that of some claiming that you don't need to eat meat because you can make some really delicious vegetarian meals (this, the good riding in the south argument) The thing is; there's no vegetarian meal that can't be made tastier by adding bacon, just like there's no ride in the south that doesn't have a bigger and better counterpart in the North.
Go North, Add Bacon.
Mbuk are from the south, Thats killed that arguement
but isn't that mainly about jumping off street furniture?
just like there's no ride in the south that doesn't have a bigger and better counterpart in the North.
Possibly not, but impossible to prove again. Just an opinion, that's all 🙂
I could say that there's no ride in the North that doesn't have a drier, twistier version in the South, which would be just as controversial! 😀
dasilva - Like almost everyone else you've gone with the same dumb logic.
The argument is not whether it would be made tastier with bacon, but if it is "crap" with no bacon at all.
Incidentally, I totally disagree with your example anyway, but even so I think I know what you mean, and even that is nonsense.
And just to get back to riding - I am not aware of any riding away from the south with the same blend of varied woodland (not pine forest), sandy well drained soil and smooth flowing singletrack, plus cracking views and very easy access. There may be plenty of riding elsewhere which is just as enjoyable for different reasons, but I don't think there is a "northern" counterpart to Surrey Hills.
Dasilva - nope - there is riding in the south that does not require bacon
glenp - I would be fairly sure you can find plenty of that sort of riding
Go South
get a suntan
and add falafel 8)
I agree glenp - possibly the quantocks.
Some real northerners
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And sometimes we ride the bikes as well
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2 things to add to this, as a Notherer living in London:
1 - Surrey Hills riding(no northern equivalent that I know of) is in the top 3 for me in England, Lakes is first
2 - Anyone who thinks that Londoners / Southerners are not as friendly as Northerners is just plain wrong in my experience, most of them are from the North anyway!. I've lived in West London for 7 years and I never had such friendly neighbours in the North. The simple reason for this is that all of them came to London for work, are open minded people with no preconceptions and really want to get to know other people in the area. Almost all my neighbours in the North (Pudsey, Darlington, Middlesbourough) were never as freindly, some were downright rude, even violent and several were just small minded small town people.
Great example kaya - that looks great fun. But it doesn't look better. All rocks, no trees - each to their own, but I likes me trees.
Add garlic - head South West.
just like there's no ride in the south that doesn't have a bigger and better counterpart in the North
That's just a stupid thing to say. The riding's different, you end up doing different things and having a different day. I don't think the South is better, or the North. If I won the lottery I'd move to Mid-Wales, but for a variety of reasons - biking being one 🙂
You might like Northern/Welsh/Scottish trails better, but riding in the South is definitely NOT CRAP. That's my point. Thanks for listening.
Add proper mountains - get on the Eurostar...
Where does Milton Keynes fit into north south scheme of things?? I would call it south but it's flaming miles to the south or north downs and the Quantocks is even further. We have a decent enough local woods here but it's always under threat of closure from the land owner due to the volume of riders etc...on this basis i would have to say that unless you live within a reasonably short drive from the surrey hills or the quanocks then the riding is quite limited (albeit with the exception of small local woods). I say keep the local woods untouched but find a few areas of land down south and build some centres for us southerners to use which dont anger the local landowner, this might make the local hotspots a little quieter as well.
Where does Milton Keynes fit into north south scheme of things??
If Britain was a body Milton Keynes is the arm pit, does that help?
Milton Keynes is 100% the south. if not its south midlands,
Milton keynes -its in the south for sure.
we have agreed I am going to redraw the map as anywhere that has decent riding is in the north by definition and all the crap places are in the south.
So the quantocks is relocated to the north and Doncaster to the south
I knew a lovely girl from Milton Keynes, fancied her a lot at Uni. She died a while back tho.. hmm..
I think we can all agree that's Lincolnshire
Lets be fair though it's whatever floats your boat. Now this weekend we are going for some knarly concrete cow and rounabout action and we're heading straight for the big MK!!
Question is what tyres for knarly Concrete Cow and Roundabout riding
and Doncaster to the south
Nahh. Just cut Doncaster out, and sink it in the North Sea,
Milton Keynes is 100% the south. if not its south midlands,
it's flippin' not... it's pure North; everyone knows that North begins at the North Downs that's why they've got NORTH in their name...
but then coming from Sussex I would say that 🙂
glenp - Member
Great example kaya - that looks great fun. But it doesn't look better. All rocks, no trees - each to their own, but I likes me trees.
I don't think it's any better just different, I was brought up in the dark peaks and moved to the east coast for the surf. But there was the added bonus of the north Yorkshire moors being on my door step as well.
Sorry for no pictures of trees but I don't normally stop in the woods 😆
Grum - is going up and down big hills all you enjoy about biking?
Not all no but I've always loved mountains (or big hills if you prefer 😉 ) - like I said I would quite like some more twisty woodland singletrack with jumps etc up here though.
Go South
get a suntan
It never rains up here, it's a myth - don't you know there's a drought in the North West? 😛
Grum, yes I saw that today on the news and did notice last week that all the little tarns etc in the Lakes were very dry.
Not the norm though!!
MK is a good few hours north of here. Anywhere north of Newbury is north to me. 😕
To be fair i'd live anywhere and i'm sure the riding would be good enough. If it's not all that there's always the bmx or roadbike.
If riding is so good down south why did they base singletrack towers UP NORTH ?
I expect the offices were cheap to rent because no one wants to be there
Living near Caerphilly I'm smack in the middle of some excellent natural welsh terrain, 5 miles from cwmcarn and within 10 miles of 4or5 of the dragon downhill courses.
I've worked in London on and off over the last 10 years. I've ridden trails in south downs & the chilterns on a par with my local natural trails. My favourite is a figure of 8 killer loop that appeared in MBR about 10 years ago. Starts from the checkers pub in prestwood.
Ah the great North/South Divide.
In the North - ale, ferrets, flat caps, wind, rain, coal and massive slag heaps to ride down.
In the South - fizzy beer, baseball caps, scorching sun, droughts and massive slags to ride.
Such a contrast.
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I'm actually hoping that 13thfloormonk will organise a Forum Ride. 😉
Will certainly sort out the men from the boys. 🙄
Scotland for me next year. 8)
[s]My ASBO will be spent[/s]
Riding in the South isn't crap.
It's just twee.
I hear they've resurfaced Richmond Park and all the gnarly stuff has been sanitised. Sad news if it's true 😉
I envy all you guys who need 500sq miles of countryside to play in...As a south Westerner, there is lots to play in, much within riding distance and I havnt seen a fraction of it, yet...no time!
The north is clearly better. People should move there for the riding!
Unfortunately I can't for personal reasons so will have to suffer the trails down here. 😥
Have a look at the clips here
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-tbc-wednesday-night-ride-this-week-the-movie ]TBc ride in the pentlands[/url] if you havent already.
that will give you some idea of what we have within riding distance of Edinburgh. This is not some fantastic area that we have to drive to - this is just the local trails,
Druidh, i get the point, but that is quite possibly the worst photoshopping ever 🙂
but a more polished version would be an excellent ad for the Scottish tourist board
TJ, a video of a flat doubletrack absolutely packed with riders isn't going to help your case much in the mountains/no mountains argument, but it looks fun all the same
I used to live about a 3 mile ride from Grizedale, apparently some of the best riding in england round here. I wouldnt know for sure because Ive never really ridden anywhere else
Rd - did you miss the bits in the woods? Those vids show the variety of riding available in an average / mediocre area of Scotland
I didn't watch all 9 minutes, but even the bits I did watch are longer than my local stuff, so still jealous!
Riding in the south is not crap - there is some good stuff to be had .... and it still doesn't compare with places like the Peak District etc - since there is simply not the height or terrain, in that way, down south.
I wouldn't want to ride in the north because Tandem Jeremy lives there.
Milton Keynes is in the midlands, however Wobourn is south of milton keynes and as Milton Keynes is the border Woborn is in the south.
"Riding in the South isn't crap. It's just twee"
I don't disagree with that actually. There definitely is a propensity for rides to finish a tea shoppes and rural pubbes. And all the better for it.
rOcKeTdOg - Member
Druidh, i get the point, but that is quite possibly the worst photoshopping ever
Really? It took me ages to get the sky that colour!
So let me get this right; that long straight moor land (I would call it a descent, but that's not doing descents justice is it?) un-technical double track is something you though was worthy of filming?
Christ on a horse, that's some dull shit. I'd need some large quanties of mind altering substances to call that "good riding"
I feel sorry for you, I really do.
cod Yorkshire ?trying too hard sound like a 'local' person
My comment was wasted on you.
I'm more Yorkshire than Yorkshire Pudding, you owd gimmer!
and rural pubbes.
I hope that means pubs and not pubes or have you taken up dogging 😯
Sorry to dig this up, but I had a thought on this argument whilst I was battering my way down an Alp a couple of days ago (believe it or not!) which went something like this -
'They insist the North is better, but what they're really inferring is that this makes them better riders.'
Discuss...
🙂
So by inference you are thinking that you are a waaay better rider than north and south added together cos you're riding down an Alp?
I am betterer than you however cos I always ride wth my eyes closed innit.
I'm from the North, I live in the south and I'd kick your ass down an alp PP
but what they're really inferring is that this makes them better riders
not in the least - I just think we're lucky to have all this wonderful stuff to ride! We might get more practice at riding over really gnarly rocky stuff but miss out on the skillz needed for chalky singletrack or whatever...
I think there needs to be a North VS South STW Weekender.
That'l sort it.
That'l sort it.
Optimist.
'They insist the North is better, but what they're really inferring is that this makes them better riders.'
Yes, and they're correct. 😛
But really, I reckon obviously if you ride it all the time then you will be better at steeper, rockier stuff - but I would like to be better at jumping and whatnot.
Could all you nice people start going on your hols to the South then please instead of blocking up our roads. Or at least go to Wrexham, it's the next nest thing to the South. Scotland is rubbish for riding. Stay away. You have been warned. Oh, and if you do come up this year, you may find the midges somewhat less annoying than all the "Out of Africa" pisstaking you will have to endure. Message ends
I do think Northeren riders have a skewed view of what Southern riding is, perhaps exacerbated by not actually coming down South to ride, and lets be honest here, if you had the Dales, or the Peaks to play in, would you be in a massive rush?
Which is a shame, I can do anything from 10 to 100 miles in the Chilterns, and do endless treeless vistas, cool shady woods with snaking singletrack that goes on and on for miles, techy steep drops, and killer climbs, not meet a soul, see wildlife from massive birds of prey to deer, and so on and on.
[i]but what they're really inferring is that this makes them better riders[/i]
Which is odd, as of all the Northern rides I've shown around the Chilterns, most of them can't cope particularly well with woods, and the twisty turn-y singletrack that we have. but blatting down a rocky straight double track is a piece of cake
If the truth be told I don't care if the North is better or not. I like what I ride and it's good enough for me.
What is a far more pressing matter is why they can get chips with gravy and I can't and also why they seem happier than us South Easters despite the lack of civilization North of Hemel.
"I think there needs to be a North VS South STW Weekender."
I would be an opportunity to make some new friends, and maybe dispel a few myths.
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-stw-mendip-ride-2010-sunday-15th-august ]Mendip forum ride - 15th August LINKY[/url]
Special guest Northern riders are extra specially welcome.
Well I've ridden the North, the South and Wales plenty. That must make me uber-all-round rider 🙂
Agreed about the different skills tho. Getting good speed out of say Swinley twisty singletrack is quite hard, as is blatting something rocky at speed.
buzzlightyear,
I would love to come but its on the list with SSUK for things i can't do because of a Wedding.
I do think Northeren riders have a skewed view of what Southern riding is
And then you go and generalise that all the riding up north is rocky doubletrack 😉
There's been little to prove otherwise though! Halfway through the video TJ linked too I've seen nothing but doubletrack on open heathland, it looks incredibly dull!
njee - you should watch both the vids thru - woodsy singletrack at the end of both. Almost none of it was vehicle track ( except quads) - just multiple worn lines from walkers and cyclists.
Anyway that was just given as a demonstration of the [i]average[/i] riding in the pentlands - not a particularly great spot just my local riding.
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-tbc-wednesday-night-ride-this-week-the-movie
Our club (TROG) build & ride trails in Tunstall Forest in Suffolk. Crap flat riding you say. No. It's not just about climbing & descending big hills (which I'm not knocking), nor is it about XC racing (which I don't do). It's about CREATING flowy, challenging, fun singletrack out of whatever terrain you have to work with. We do road trips to North Wales & Yorkshire & find that the skills & fitness we've built on our tight, twisty, pedally & technically demanding trails do us just fine when we have to climb for half an hour and descend a black run.
I'm a Yorkshireman by the way & I'd prefer to ride the big stuff any day of the week, but there's good stuff to be found everywhere.
Whatever you ride every week, you need to experience different trails & terrain to round your skills & keep the passion alive.
Mind you, arguing for your local trails is one thing. If I had no ties or commitments & could choose to up-sticks & move anywhere in the UK for it's riding, I'd choose The Independent State of Yorkshire (& sod the lot of you who say otherwise!)
Ok, watched all the first vid, CBA with the second one, there's no singletrack there, there's some woodland track at the end, it looks alright, but nothing better!
At the end of the day we're lucky that there's such riding variety in such a tiny area. In the US they have to fly a couple of thousand miles if they wanted a big change in their scenery!
You can just see a couple of bikers on the horizon negotiating some of our boring doubletrack 😉
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Some more in this thread
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/show-me-your-epic-lakes-mountain-trail-pics#post-1565098
Southerners - could any of your rides be described as 'epic'? And I don't just mean long. 😀
No singletrack? I don't know how you define it then. 🙂
As I said - those vids I merely mentioned to give some idea of the range of riding we have in the pentlands - which as anyone will tell you is OK but nothing special - its just our local riding.
You have the open moorland which is mainly what you see on that vid. There is lots of twisty woodsy singletrack - which you don't see the best of on that vid. there are built trails with berms and jumps, (Nibbler)
There is a lot of variety and good trails - but my point was that is not the best of around here - its just an average.