[Closed] Why do people think Southern England riding is crap?

Definition of a mountain
You fall [i]down[/i] a hill, you fall [i]off[/i] a mountain.

Some of the scottish "mountains" are really just big hills despite being over 3000 ft, ( drumochter munro anyone?) whereas some of the non Munros are definitely mountains - Ben Arthur anyone?

I have to say some of the lake district would be mountains to me but not much else. And yes - I have walked or biked in all the high areas of the UK

I don't think anyone is saying there is no good riding down south - clearly there is and some of what there is is very good indeed. The quantocks was some of the best riding I have done. Its just that the quantity and the spread is not the same as further north. There are few areas in the north with no decent riding and most have plenty

cod Yorkshire ?

trying too hard sound like a 'local' person 🙂

And as for London I lived there for a year and visit often. Its awful. the air is horrid, the people are rude and unfriendly and the water is not worth drinking - its horribly claustrophobic as well. Not for me thanks

Londoners - when did you last have a chat with a stranger on public transport? Wheat happens when you smile at someone on the street? here people even thank th4e bus drivers when they get off the bus!

just that the quantity and the spread is not the same as further north.

just that the quantity and the spread is not the same as further north.

Depends what you're into - it's certainly very different. If you think there's anything like the variety of natural technical riding down south, you're deluded. And for long, continuous descents the north wins hands down, purely because of elevation. Half of southerners don't get it because they bypass the best northern riding to hit theme parks like Glentress. Yes there are plenty of exceptions to this on STW, but they just prove the rule.

Representing the North well just one county Yorkshire (ish)
Pace, Orange, On-One, Ragley, Hope (border bandit now Lancs country though)

Representing the Sarth
Whyte

5-1 nuff said

Oh do shut up!
And also in the South - Curtis, Robin Mather, Pipedream (South Wales) Chas Roberts, Argos Cycles, Burls (Custom Ti, no less!) Demon Frameworks... Shall I contine looking? 😉

And a couple from the Midlands, just for good measure - Mercian and Dave Yates 🙂

Yes there are plenty of exceptions to this on STW, but they just prove the rule.

And as for [s]London[/s] Scotland I lived there for a year and visit [s]often.[/s]never again Its awful. the air is [s]horrid[/s] full of bitey insects, the people are [s]rude and unfriendly[/s]bitter closed minded alcoholics and the [s]water[/s] food is not worth [s]drinking[/s] eating - its horribly [s]claustrophobic[/s] old fashioned and primitive as well. Not for me thanks

Yeah, lets all play the regional stereotypes game - huzzah for small mindedness, bigotry and ignorance 😉

Lets face it, UK is not 'mountain central' by any stretch of the imagination, a few rocky hills maybe but very little that most other countries would call a 'proper mountain' - let's just enjoy what we have and ride it before it's gone.......

Definition of a mountain
You fall down a hill, you fall off a mountain.

Phhhhhhhhhhh. More utter garbage. TJ, you can 'fall off' a brick wall, but it don't make it a frikkin' mountain, or any different to 'falling down' your bleedin' stairs! 😀

Representing the North well just one county Yorkshire (ish)
Pace, Orange, On-One, Ragley,

shed bikes and warranty claims - nice 😆

What 'rule' is this, please?

the rule that any gobby northerner always quotes when proved wrong 😆 😆

I shouldn't, but PMSL @ Hilldodger! 8)

The rule that says tons of southern riders who venture out seem to drive for hours to reach Scottish trail centres rather than hit real trails in real hills and mountains far closer to home in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cumbria etc etc. As far as I'm concerned, long may this continue. I'm not saying all southern riding's sh*t, it's just a certain type of riding and generally not for me or the folk I ride with.

PMSL even more at the 'fall [i]off[/i] a ladder and fall [i]down[/i] the stairs' comment, new keyboard please mine's full of coffee....

Jeez, I think it was my uncle Billy, in the institute, who last said to me "How can it be mountain biking when there aren't any mountains. Cough. Spit. Wibble" before he shat in his hand and passed it to the nurse.
Now they're saying it on here.

FFS

The dark peak is pretty cr4p really, when I leave home on a sunday morning and ride 400 yards down the road to the bridleway that takes me out of sheffield and don't come home till dark having not ridden the same trail twice all day, I often wish I was able to load the bike onto the car and drive for an hour or 2 to get to a car park in a forest with a visitor centre and toilets so that I can buy a map of the trails and then follow other people round the same 10k route back to the car park, that would be so much more fun.
I'm just so jealous of you guys in the south east

I live in one of the larger cities in the South East. From my house I have two minutes of riding on tarmac, then I'm offroad and can ride a mix of technical woodland singletrack and fast open hills for a good few day's worth of riding before repeating myself. Like I said, rubbish!

I will bite
I live in Glorious green surrey - we have some of the best woodland singletrack in the country with plenty of gnar if you know where to look.
We also have great riding down south in the Quantocks, UK bike park and welsh trail centres etc - but also some really quite shit riding!!

When we venture out of this god forsaken place we tend to go and ride stuff like this [url] http://www.flickr.com/photos/71958789@N00/sets/72157623770296923/show/ [/url]
as its very different to what we normally ride - but we normally don't see many northerners/locals on this sort of stuff as they all seem to be juts blasting down rocky fireroads which seems pretty dull to me 🙄

All I am trying to say is that there is great riding all around this glorious country of ours - but also plenty of crap riding north and south.

The rule that says tons of southern riders who venture out seem to drive for hours to reach Scottish trail centres rather than hit real trails in real hills and mountains far closer to home in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cumbria etc etc. As far as I'm concerned, long may this continue. I'm not saying all southern riding's sh*t, it's just a certain type of riding and generally not for me or the folk I ride with.

So, not actually a [i]rule[/i] then, just a point of view or preference? 🙂

And of course NOBODY in the North [i]ever[/i] vistits any of the trail centres, ohhh noooooooo.... 😉

PP - the definition of a mountain was lighthearted - its at least as sensible a defintion as any other

As for London - I lived there for a year. Thats my experience.

Riding - how much riding is there within 30 miles of central london? Come off it - due to the population density there simply cannot be the same amount of riding available. Look at a map FFS. There is no need to be so defensive, reread what I wrote. Even some of the southerners on this thread admit there is not much around them

I don't think anyone is saying there is no good riding down south - clearly there is and some of what there is is very good indeed. The quantocks was some of the best riding I have done. Its just that the quantity and the spread is not the same as further north. There are few areas in the north with no decent riding and most have plenty

From my flat I can ride west east or south ( no need to get into a car) and ride many hundreds of miles of trail from woody twisty singletrack to wide open moorland to old industrial stuff

and obviously, being southerners we've never ridden anywhere else in the country...

Mountain biking is about what you make of it, other than living somewhere very flat, there's good biking most places.

Whatever. You don't see many folks heading south to ride though.

Methinks the men doth protest too much

wl - I did to sample the quantocks and I am sure other areas are worth it as well

TJ, and so was my retort, hence the smiley... 🙂

[i] how much riding is there within 30 miles of central london?[/i]

Did you miss my post about the 500 miles of(legit)Chilterns singletrack?

Northern riding is OK, sure there are the occasional nicely techy descents, but you can keep they endlessly dull shite moorland double-track thanks...

Got to say; the south east isn't just London y'know?

You don't see many folks heading south to ride though.

I do: To The Purbecks, The Qs, Surrey Hills etc.

Oh. And to the Alps tonight. Which is a fair bit closer from down here.... 8)

wl - think you would be pleasantly suprised around here (surrey hills)

TandemJeremy - Member

PP - the definition of a mountain was lighthearted - its at least as sensible a defintion as any other

As for London - I lived there for a year. Thats my experience.

Riding - how much riding is there within 30 miles of central london? Come off it - due to the population density there simply cannot be the same amount of riding available. Look at a map FFS. There is no need to be so defensive, reread what I wrote. Even some of the southerners on this thread

Doesn't take long for you to get defensive, claim misquotation and then miss the point.

As usual.

There's enough riding within 30 miles of London, if you were to ride nothing else, to last a lifetime. I don't need to look at a map, I live here.

Nobody claimed there was the "same amount" of riding, just that there is loads of it (there is) and that it is "different" (it is).

🙄

Why is everyone from the south so stroppy then? Nothing I posted disagrees with you.

I don't think anyone is saying there is no good riding down south - clearly there is and some of what there is is very good indeed. The quantocks was some of the best riding I have done. Its just that the quantity and the spread is not the same as further north. There are few areas in the north with no decent riding and most have plenty

Methinks they protest too much

[i]Its just that the quantity and the spread is not the same as further north.[/i]

Specifically that bit. To get as pedantic as you do sometimes, you're clearly talking from a position of a lack of knowledge. Otherwise you'd know this is just rubbish. Southeren riding is different from Northern riding, is all.

London is crap I know this 'cos I live here (ish) 'Surrey darling'
The riding arond London is crap also (ish)
The South Downs are long and good but not ace.
Surrey Hills are okay.
I live in London cos I dick around with a computers all day.

When I get bored of dicking around with computers and want to bail hay, not sleep while lambing, watch ducks play football and stop using the letter 't' I'll move back home to the Dales.
The riding is ace

The thing most people are missing is it's quite simple. (and this is hard for a Yorkshireman to say)

The North (of England) is better than the South
But [b]Wales and Scotland are better[/b]

It's all to do with glaciers

We're sensitive souls down here. 😉

There's more riding than people think. But truth is we just don't want more people migrating to the South. 🙄

*yawns*
This thread should be prescribed as a cure for insomnia

Nickc - so in the south you have a broad variety of riding in all areas - none of which are crap?

several of the southerners on here say that there is less riding than up north and some areas have little good riding - read the thread. So they agree with me

Read tigers post for example.

Northern riding is OK, sure there are the occasional nicely techy descents, but you can keep they endlessly dull shite moorland double-track thanks...

We will keep our hundreds of miles of bridleways, double tracks and single tracks cheers, Sorry its hard to navigate the stunning country side,

Oh btw we built a few trail centres up here for those who choose to follow one trail and not need a map. Some people at the UCI seem to think its good enough for the World cup, get in.

As a south-wester, I think this thread is hilarious!

I've ridden all over the UK although I've only made it to Scotland once. This [i]northern trails vs southern trails[/i] thing is pap.

You don't need to have dirty great mountains to get good riding, and it seems to me that whether you like southern style or northern style trails (because they [b]are[/b] different) is more to do with personal preference and critically, knowledge of the local trail network.

Day/weekend trippers outside their own local area are likely to not know where all the good stuff is, hence come away with a skewed impression of an area.

For example, I've tried Dartmoor three times for day rides with the OS map. I've always had a rubbish ride there, but I know from locals posting here that there is superb riding there. Based on my own experiences I'd not be going back, but theres a bigger picture that I'm now aware of.

Preference and knowledge is all it is.

[i]several of the southerners on here say that there is less riding than up north and some areas have little good riding - read the thread. So they agree with me[/i]

I do...
There's enough down here to keep me happy and that's all that matters. I don't get enough bloody riding time as it is, so there's no way I'd want to be somewhere where there's [i]more[/i] of it (but it's colder and wetter) !!

several of the southerners on here say that there is less riding than up north and some areas have little good riding - read the thread. So they agree with me

And several don't.

And the enlightened few can see the plusses and minusses to the whole of the UK. But it's head/brick wall time for thsoe poor sods... 😉

Surrey Hills/North Downs kicks alot of the north of England firmly into the weeds.

I'd go as far to say the Surrey Hills is BETTER than the Peaks....but then I prefer riding in trees/woods, singletrack, thorn scratches on my forearms and variety.

North England does have a lot of exposed/open top moorland-type riding with doubletrack or wide trails IMO. I said this years ago and I still largely stand by it.

For example, I've tried Dartmoor three times for day rides with the OS map. I've always had a rubbish ride there, but I know from locals posting here that there is superb riding there. Based on my own experiences I'd not be going back, but theres a bigger picture that I'm now aware of.

Preference and knowledge is all it is.

There's always one isn’t here, keep you intelligent and reasoned postings to yourself please. We need banter.

Bloody Cider drinking, combine driving, Rick Stein loving weirdo

I'd rather ride in the south that anywhere in the Netherlands, Ireland, Northern Ireland and plenty of other places, so don't think any of us have got it that bad really.

Unless you live in London of course and ride the likes of Redbridge

Is it the hot weather making everyone so grouchy?

Just chill everyone, ride or plan your next ride where ever it is and realise riding a bike soars above all the petty childish "my area is better than yours" purile arguing going on here

I do apologise.

You're all cock-ends! 😈

I didn't mean to start a thread establishing which is best.. merely to point out to all the prejudiced folk out there that the South does have some cracking trails. As does the North, Scotland, Wales etc etc.

Btw SS_shep - what's wrong with Ireland? I always imagined it'd be a good place to ride, but know nothing about it.

[b]Scienceofficer[/b] - [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/profile/scienceofficer ]Member[/url]

I do apologise.

You're all [b]Southern[/b] cock-ends!

Sorted that for ya 🙂

😆

Molgrips - north / south thread - bound to get a few folk going.

Edit - I was just thing about Manchester conurbation ( wher I lived for ten years) ridings not great around there either. Takes as long to ride out of the city as it does London and not a great deal of riding anyway.

Mind you it does count as the south anyway

Molgrips - north / south thread - bound to get a few folk going.

Yeah, mostly 'friendly' Northerners with blinkers on..... 😉

Irelands not that bad, just not as good as the south of England.

They struggle with right of way laws, Downhill is ok but there is a very slow up take of work on trails, so most riding is like it was here 15 years ago forest roads and drovers roads, but still lots of these are closed becasue of rights of way. You basically have none.

Very good and pretty Road riding mind. I liked that.

PP - I thought most of the vitriol came from the southerners living up to their unfriendly sterotype

[i]PP - I thought most of the vitriol came from the southerners living up to their unfriendly sterotype[/i]

Ahem, may I refer you to Gary_lager's marvellous posts? Which have actually been noticed by non-forum members! 😕

I've lived the south for about 10 years now, originally from staffordshire.
The wooded type singletrack is as good as anywhere. And there are lots of places to go for this
guildford/surreyhills/northdowns/chilterns/swinley/tunnel hil etc

There are also some places that are reasonably quiet ie chilterns and areas like the ridgeway/marlboroughdowns/lamborndowns/southdowns can give you that big open space feeling but the descents are nt as good in comparison to the north. Although the ups can be difficult with the chalk reflecting the sun.

The main problem with the south is that turns into a mud bath in the winter. You do get use to riding through it and there are trails that arent muddy but there still is ALOT of mud.

Coming from south staffs the soil is very sandy and drains easily. If does nt really matter what time of year you ride there.

I stayed with a friend in Henley and she wanted to go out for a decent long MTB ride and had some 'routes' which i scoffed at. Awesome day, lots of really nice bits of singletrack and just a day of real fun trails. I was fully surprised esp as I'd just spent 4 weeks riding all over Scotland and done some epics. Ridings what it is really, if you think somewhere is sh1t then your closed mind will make it so. Very zen. I've had a bit to drink.

PP - I thought most of the vitriol came from the southerners living up to their unfriendly sterotype

Well, as a passive observer (Did I mention I'm a Midlander, me duck?) I think if that's true the Northerners are really showing the chips on their shoulders too... 🙂

showing the chips on their shoulders too

That's Chips with Gravy though, non of those un-moistened chips

Dez - aye its a good job Fred was banned - he would have been apoplectic by now.

Midlander = southerner. anything south of manchester = the south. I think manchester should be reclassified as the south as well.

We don't want Manchester thanks.

Midlander = southerner

Do I [i]really[/i] have to point out how geographically incompetant that statement is? 8)

If that's true, then you're a Southerner too. South Scotland. 😛

Clutching at straws? Nahhh not TJ.... 😉

Whoa whoa whoa there.

Manchester is almost level with West Yorkshire.

Don't you dare class true northerners/Yorkshiremen as southerners.

Yorkshirefolk are the true northerners. Anything else is wannabe.

I do so love it how some people are tying themselves in knots trying to proove a point that is no more than an opinion, with no knowledge at all to back it up! 🙂

TJ's been to the Qs and walked round London, and therefore KNOWS his local riding is better.
Oh pur-leeeese.

Not better. Just different. You might [i]prefer[/i] it, but that doesn't turn a PoV into a fact, you know? 😀

Anyroadup. Carry on, time's flying by here at work, and at 3.30 I'm off to some REAL MOUNTAINS! 😀 😉

Bloody northerners, [b]all of you[/b]. Down here in Spain (real South) is where the decent riding is, better weather too. And little-to-no mud.

Not better. Just different. You might prefer it, but that doesn't turn a PoV into a fact, you know?

It does if its Chuck Norris's POV

Manchester is almost level with West Yorkshire.

And it's also almost level with Wales. And we KNOW what happens there!

Baaa.

😉

TJ's been to the Qs and walked round London, and therefore KNOWS his local riding is better.
Oh pur-leeeese.

He's probably found some peer reviewed papers about it as well.....

It does if its Chuck Norris's POV

Yeah, but Chuck Norris doesn't go to a mountain to ride a bike, the mountains come to him and pass under his wheels.....

LOL @ Hilldodger again.

(Sorry, Hilldodger is on form today, you gotta admit that, at least 🙂 )

PP - actually I have lived down south 🙂 Have you PP?

You need to reread what I wrote as I did not say what you claim. I did not say my local riding was better - I said there is a wider spread of good riding in the north. Repeatedly I have said there is good riding in the south - just not as much of it as further north and what there is is concentrated in particular areas.

Me - I'm off to redraw the map. I am putting the quantocks and dartmoor in the north and manchester in the south.

Argument over

PP lives in Hampshire I believe.

There is more riding up north, for sure. But there is still plenty in parts of the South and it's good 🙂

^^ TJ did say that.
(As well as the rubbish about mountains)

molgrips - Member

There is more riding up north, for sure. But there is still plenty in parts of the South and it's good

Which is what I said

freeridenick - Member

When we venture out of this god forsaken place we tend to go and ride stuff like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/71958789@N00/sets/72157623770296923/show/
as its very different to what we normally ride - but we normally don't see many northerners/locals on this sort of stuff as they all seem to be juts blasting down rocky fireroads which seems pretty dull to me

It's more a case of there being so many options that you'll be hard pressed to come across a local (here in the north lakes anyway).

So we're all agreed then. It's good everywhere and any whiney northern clog-dancing "smooth" beer-drinking, lard guzzling spotty whey-faced fag smoking shouters of mangled English are just being a tad unreasonable...

Love the Dales and Cumbria, meself. 😉

but we normally don't see many northerners/locals on this sort of stuff as they all seem to be juts blasting down rocky fireroads which seems pretty dull to me

I don't understand how you can tell where people you can't see are riding ?

PP lives in Hampshire I believe

Indeed I do. 🙂

And I cut my MTB teeth in the Peak District nearly 20 years ago, had a rest for a few years and started up again after I moved darn sarf.

I like any riding, on any bike, anywhere. 🙂

I said there is a wider spread of good riding in the north

And I'm not so sure you're right. I think that's just becasue you know your area so well, just as I know my area. If/when I visit, I hoping you'll show me round, though. I know it'll be ace! 😀

simonfbarnes - Member

but we normally don't see many northerners/locals on this sort of stuff as they all seem to be juts blasting down rocky fireroads which seems pretty dull to me

I don't understand how you can tell where people you can't see are riding ?

😆 😆 😆

Made me spit that mouthfull of tea I'd just taken in...

I don't understand how you can tell where people you can't see are riding ?

Becasue you take so many pics of them? 😀

As an aside, I've noticed Molgrips has an astonishing knack for starting mahoosive-long-running threads. Well done that man! 😀

Most of the riding in the UK is great fun, I like surrey as I live here and I'm sure those up North like their stuff for the same reason. Frankly all of our riding is utter crap in comparison to the French Alps, Pyrenees and other proper mountains in Europe. We all know this and for me this thread is like arguing about British "cuisine".

freeridenick - you're probably right, I would be surprised, but only because my expectations of southern riding are pretty low. To be fair, you look like you get out onto my kind of trails in the Lakes, but there's not much down south that offers that kind of riding on that kind of scale. Some folk love southern-style riding, that's fine, but up north it's way easier to get to bigger hills, longer descents and, I would argue, longer stretches of more challenging terrain - as far as I know that's beyond debate (although others here will still try to argue it).

Becasue you take so many pics of them?

ha ha Podster, however I only photograph that select group who are able to ride near me without extreme prejudice :o)

ha ha Podster, however I only photograph that select group who are able to ride near me without extreme prejudice :o)

Or do you need a longer lens? 😉

As an aside, I've noticed Molgrips has an astonishing knack for starting mahoosive-long-running threads. Well done that man!

Ah, it's a recent thing. There are also a few dead horses but they drop down the pages so fast no-one sees them 🙂

TJ - you seemed to imply that there was very little riding down here. There is plenty, although not as much up north.

Still I'm staying at the Bracknell Hilton next week which is across the road from Swinely - and I shall be enjoying hooning around the dry windy singletrack at breakneck speed very much 🙂

I would argue, longer stretches of more challenging terrain - as far as I know that's beyond debate

Depends what you mean by challenging. If you mean getting down in once piece, then perhaps. But I try and get down everything as fast as I can, and then Southern singletrack (and the above mentioned Swinley stuff) can be a great challenge. Whereas all it takes to do a lot of mountain stuff fast is just the balls to lay off the brakes and the arms to take the pounding.