[Closed] Why do mountain bikers carry backpacks?

I've just got no idea what I could possibly leave out.

Perhaps paranoia sums it up?

I hate back packs, long rides and winter only for me and even then it's minimal stuff in there (and never a bladder of liquid)

There is of course some practicality in not having water bottles rattling about in cages when you are doing drops / jumps / roots, and also not having hard objects in a thin jersey right next to your spine could be seen as a good idea if there is a likelihood that you may land full weight on said back.

For me, I feel naked without a backpack now. I like to carry the extra clothing, tools, and drink. Sometimes a camera when it is nice weather.

You could look at it in much the same way as why rodies _don't_ carry them, it is just the done thing, call it fashion if you want. But there has to be some practicality involved.

At the end of the day, why worry about it? Use what you want, carry what you like.

This is also a good reason for wearing a backpack - http://www.mountainbikebill.com/milescrash.htm

Because they are a better way.

I'd like to see you fit a 3L camelbak bladder in a jersey pocket...

Every tried off-roading on anything slightly rough with all the usual crap stuffed into jersey pocket and on frame bags. It sounds like your bike is about to fall apart and makes it a thoroughly unenjoyable experience most of the time.

Because they want to.

I've tried water bottles and stuffing stuff in my pockets ... it is not for me. I prefer to keep the weight off the bike and love the fact you can still grab a drink on single track ... also seen way to many people stopping to pick up bottles at the start of big rides. Sure if I'm doing my local short route it's nice to go "naked" but in almost all other situations let me have a pack.

3kg of water on your frame makes your bike feel shite.

I too wondered why most of the mtbers at Cwmcarn yesterday felt the need to carry such large packs.

Maybe its a trail centre thing?
The back pack didnt seem to help their riding any.
Most had to stop on every technical section, stop on almost every climb and slow down to an almost stop on the descents.
They did have very expensive full sus bikes though...

The fact that the majority of MTBers use backpacks must mean they're the "best way", otherwise it'd just have been a fad that would've worn off by now...

3l bladder
3x Tubes
1 Pump
1 Multitool
Selection of food (Bars/Sandwich)
Hip Flask
Spare Top
Jacket
(possibly shock pump and more tools)

Sounds like a rubbish idea to strap all that to my bike and pockets

Jacket gloves hat spare tube pump zip ties camera wallet keys chain tool multi tool penknife shock pump puncture kit jelly babies 3 litres of water and Jaffa cakes ...... I'd need frikken big pockets!

Im in the "backpack" camp. Not a giant rucksack but something that holds a bladder, a multitool, my phone, my keys and my snack. (small size camelback) hate the feel of guff rattling around in my pockets.

I carry one as my current bike has no bottle bosses. It only ever has the bare minimum in it, ie water, pump, multi tool, tube, patch kit. I hate using them though and if I'm going for a local fast blast of an hour or so I won't use a pack.

There is a downhill track near me, most of the guys that ride it all live within sight of the bottom of the hill. Whenever they are riding it, they all have massive backpacks on, I often wonder what they have in the packs and why you would session a downhill with one on!?

well mine carries 3ltr of water, innertubes pump and a extra coat for the rain, if i didnt bring my bag id be stuck in the rain soaked with a flat tyre ;p

I don't like wearing one but it's the most convenient way of carrying stuff on a bike. It's mostly for the water and I don't carry loads of unnecessary stuff in it but I will start taking a camera when I get one - nowhere convenient to put that on a bike without risking damaging the camera.

3 litres of water? How long are you going out for? 6 hours+ it makes sense - assuming there are no sources to refil from.

Some mtb frames can't support bottle cages very well, so a pack is fairly essential.

I'm in the "use what makes sense for the ride" camp. Sometimes a bottle and jersey pockets, sometimes a full pack.

So maybe the question should be "why a backpack for 2 hours round Swinley"?

Winter months it's just a Camelbak bum bag with the bladder removed for me...just big enough to get the essentials in and then a water bottle on the frame. Good enough for up 3 hours riding as long as I'm decently hydrated beforehand. Can't stand carrying loads of stuff.

hmm, i guess i could squeeze everything i carry into pockets and saddle bags, and strap things to my frame.

but i regularly ride different bikes: rigid singlespeed/hardtail/bouncy Xc bike/downhill bike with a granny gear.

and i wash my clothes.

having all my stuff in a bag means all i have to do i pick up my bag, and i'm ready to go.

i don't want to spend time moving my pump/saddlebag from one bike to another.

i don't want to spend time emptying pockets after a ride, and then reloading pockets before a ride.

putting everything in 1 bag is a much better idea.

but in case you're still curious what i put in my backpack:

water
pump
2 tubes
tyre levers
puncture repair kit
inhaler
multi tool
shoe laces
leccy tape.
quick links
mech hangers
snack
cash
and often:
house keys
car keys
phone
extra layer
buff

For races/lap events I use frame and jersey pockets, but any rides in the Peaks Dales defo need a backpack.

On top of the usual water,tools & tubes when crossing some of those high fells, you'd be daft not to carry an extra layer, 1st aid kit - even a map & compass if its proper remote. And that's note to do with fashion.

As long as people are safe and enjoying themselves, who gives a carp what they are wearing/carrying.

it seems to annoy some people, which is 1 more reason to carry on doing it.

I like the fact that all the essentials are in one place. Just pick it up and go, without worrying about whether I've forgotten something. I then just add extras (food, jacket, etc.) as required.

As long as people are safe and enjoying themselves, who gives a carp what they are wearing/carrying.

best answer!

I had to laugh at the other thread. there was some comment along the lines of "Their backpacks and expensive bikes didnt make them any better" . Its the old argument that you need some kind of MTB cycling proficiancy test before you are allowed to upgrade from a carerra..

Pure fashion. Its a part of the "uniform"

I very rarely carry one. You don't need 3 l of water, you don't need a rucksac full of stuff.

A bottle ( or two if its hot), spare tube, pump, patches, multitool all go on the bike. Its much nicer to ride without a rucsac

No bottle mounts on my frame, means having to use a camelbak to carry water, and since I'm wearing the pack anyway, I put my pump, spare tube, multitool and patch kit in there. If the weather looks a bit iffy then the waterproof goes in there too. Also handy for carrying food for longer rides.

. You don't need 3 l of water

Fatties like me do - when its hot. We dont need coats though when its cold 😉

also, if i stop for a wee, if i've got my backpack on i can easily give my hands a quick wash.

there's often a bit of tearing and sharing of food during or after a ride, and it just seems polite to wash my hands after i've made pee-pee.

i suppose i could use a bottle for this, but that would mean carrying a bottle with me as i walk away from the trail, and that would make me look like a piss-drinking weirdo.

God, this one gets debated at least once a month, more than helmets and rlj's. Just do what you want.

I have a good selection of water bottles found on various trails.
I also have a few good tools, tyre levers, bits` bobs found out on various trails which have fallen out of unzipped or broken saddle bags.
Before Camelbacks I used to ride with all the bits strapped to my bike, stuffed in pockets and got fed up wearing out short/trousers rubbing against saddle bags, losing tools when saddlebags burst open or became detached from the bike when straps broke etc.
So when the first hydration packs came on the market(or at least I found out about them)some 20yrs ago I got one.
For me it has got nothing to do with fashion and get fed up with guys who "don`t see the need" but then rely on the riding buddies to carry stuff or feed and water them when the run out 🙄

I use a bag.. It's more comfortable..

I feel a bit of a lemon carrying extra clothing.. food.. spares.. etc. I do however nearly [i]always[/i] need to carry a map and compass..

My feeling like a lemon was laid to rest on a ride earlier this year when the weather turned very bad a long way from home.. I was absolutely soaked to the skin.. it was incredibly cold and foggy and I was alone and navigating by map and compass.. the terrain was much slower going than I had anticipated and required a lot of hike-a-bike and I was already very tired and [i]very[/i] cold..

It was nice to be able to change into some warmer gear.. get a good feed and sort myself out before the next leg of the journey..

if i stop for a wee, if i've got my backpack on i can easily give my hands a quick wash.

have you tried not weeing on your hands?

If your actually riding anything slightly rough, having stuff attached to your bike is a nightmare and I expect to fall off 1 in 4 rides. So having my stuff in my bag means its still usually on my back afterwards.

if you actually have decent mounts for your kit it does not fall off the bike - even on rough trails

why do stw whingers care so much what other people choose to do/not do/wear/use etc?
oh that's right, it's so that you have something to whinge about, obviously. and what better way to spend your time than picking faults with eveyone else's lives?
i'm going for a ride. without my backpack (this time).

andemJeremy - Member
if you actually have decent mounts for your kit it does not fall off the bike - even on rough trails

Ortleib seat pack, mini pump on a frame clip secured with an o ring, water bottle in a secure mount. None of it falls off. I have never lost any kit in decades of riding. Once a bottle came off but I went back for it.

I use mine for carrying extra cake. So i can feed the trolls on route.

What about these frame bags, like the Revelate ones. Are people that have these using them for normal rides to replace a camelback?

Camelbak for me too, why would I spend £3k on a bike just to weigh it down with crap?

I can easily empty 3 ltires of water when out for 3 hours, couldn't get all that on a bike. I only carry spare tube, park patches, couple of energy bars, Co2 plus pump, a tenner, phone, powerlnks and a whistle (you never know).

Handy for big rides but rides from the house i take a phone,a set of allen keys and the music player.I think ive had 2 punctures in the last 6 years.Most of that has been tubeless mind you.On cold days i like my clothing to be working well too.The camelbak restricts how the layers work. Last nights ride i returned home warm and dry.Very comfortable. The same layering used with a backpack leaves me returning home damp in places.

Some of us don't have proper cycling jerseys with big pockets. All my bits live in my little camelback, which is good cos you can just fill up the water and go without digging about for pumps and tubes and jelly beans etc.

Pure fashion. Its a part of the "uniform"

I very rarely carry one. You don't need 3 l of water, you don't need a rucksac full of stuff

your full of crap

As we are more rad than gutter bunnies we need more stuff. 😀

I suppose it is not necessary if you're doing roundy roundy stuff at a trail centre.

If you are venturing into actual mountain riding, then being able to fix your bike or yourself is important, thus a first aid kit and basic tools. Then there's the possibility of being snowed in, so food, fluids and clothing for a possible overnight. Not to mention navigation stuff like maps and compass. Oh, and a phone so you can ring and say you don't need rescuing. (My wife knows not to panic until 1 day overdue - can walk out of anywhere in UK in that time)

I suppose you could leave all that stuff at home and just carry the phone in your jersey to summon the aerial taxi when something goes wrong.

Carrying a proper camera is a lot safer in a backpack.

I also get through a lot of water, it would require a fair few bottles. I only took 1l out with me in the week and woke up the next day feeling like shite due to dehydration - headache, nausea etc. Seem to sweat a lot on a mtb ride, but maybe this is due to the backpack!

'Cos I'm very slow and have to pack emergency rations potentially for overnight. Cake etc.... Wouldn't all fit in a pocket.

Hmmm.

Water/fluid - I've yet to find a bottle/cage system that simultaneously gives as good access to your drink yet holds it so securely. Before I switched to a camelbak, I always had trouble with bottles rattling and bouncing out of cages, and strapping them securely was a pain for a quick swig.

3l? Its reckoned that if you're giving it the beans, you use a litre of water per hour. so that gives an effective ride of three hours if you allow water consumption to dictate your ride length. I'm a sweaty get and in the summer, I do use about a litre an hour. Carrying 3 litres in bottle is quite difficult and a pain. I also tend to carry more water on the MTB, since most of the time I can't just stop at a newsagent and get some extra given the more remote nature of mtbing.

So, once you've made the switch to a backpack to carry your water it only seems logical to put your tools and food in there too. Does it not?

Granted, there are loads of folk I see with maahoosive backpacks, but they might only have the one for carrying water and have virtually nothing else in it.

Couldn't think of anything worse than loading your pockets up with stuff when out riding.

It's easy, that's why. Everything is in it permanently so when I go out for a ride, backpack goes on and off I go. Can't be arsed stuffing pockets and lashing stuff onto the bike.

Anyway, wtf is TJ doing back. I thought he had flounced off forever to lick his wounds. Good to see his spell in the wilderness has allowed him to come back with an open mind and a willingness to take on board others opinions.

Whatever people feel comfortable with or uncomfortable without. I guess if you're out for a quick bimble round some locally well used woods, a few bits in pockets is fine.

Even my local rides take me minimum 20 mins walk from the nearest road, and I like to stay healthy by keeping up my fluid intake so I never go for a ride with less than:
1l of water per hour (no space for water bottle on frame)
Pump
2 tubes (my mates never seem to carry any)
Multitool
Riding glasses
Phone
Trail food - dried bananas and apricots
Chain links
Mech hanger
Headtorch, hat, gloves

Definitely don't need to take the last few items on every ride, but like others said it's just easy to pick up your pack knowing everything is there. If you're going to carry a pack, might as well keep the extra bits in there for the minimal extra weight.

Another big plus for wearing a pack is that if come off anywhere rocky they give you a lot of extra protection

I'd throw up If I drank 1 lire of water an hour, some of you also seem to carry a small buffet with you as well.

tazzymtb - Member

"if i stop for a wee, if i've got my backpack on i can easily give my hands a quick wash"

have you tried not weeing on your hands?

absolutely yes.

but a quick simple rinse is a common courtesy.

a polite break in the chain of contact from my sweaty nob, the shared trail-side malt-loaf, and my friends mouth.

you mucky pup you.

😀

What it's about, for me, is choice. Backpack means you can carry an extra layer or waterproof, or a change of gloves or stash a layer if it gets hotter. Not needed but helps keep things comfortable. You can carry more water than you usually need which means you'll never run out- which is handy when one of your mates loses a bottle on a rough bit or just didn't have enough in the first place- pretty common.

You can carry spares you probably won't need but you'll appreciate it if you do, or a big pump that'll inflate your tyre far faster and easier than a little toy. You can carry a choice of food... Will I have the rice crispies squares or the cinnamon oaty bar things? Or some haribo? Or this banana?

Oh and you can strap other crap to it- camera on the right side, sunglasses on the left, watch on the upper left strap. Elbow pads on the back on a long climb. And yet fully loaded it's still more comfortable than a back pocket with stuff in it.

Also, when we were off in Luchon, I remember going through 3 full bladders on one ride, never seen a mountain bike carrying 4 bottles conveniently.

Dancake - Member

"Its the old argument that you need some kind of MTB cycling proficiancy test before you are allowed to upgrade from a carerra..."

Oooh you had it lucky, my dad made me pass the cycling proficiency test before he'd let me upgrade to a carrera.

Currently I'm riding with a bottle and pump on the frame, a small saddle bag with multitool, tube, lever, sram powerlinks and those pre-glued patches - these are for local rides of up to 2.5-3hours. If though I'm going out into the cheviots I'll probably take a smallish backpack, mainly so I can a stash a jacket if I need to. To be honest I prefer not wearing a backpack.

Mind you when I wear a backpack I don't take much more kit; a compass and bodybag, both small. I do wonder what some people carry, they look blooming heavy.

I don't think roadies don't wear a backpack because of fashion, the riding position can mean that the pack falls forward onto your neck, well it did when I tried it. Bit like not wearing a helmet with a peak as it gets in the way of your view, well it did when I tried it.

I'd throw up If I drank 1 lire of water an hour, some of you also seem to carry a small buffet with you as well.

I was handed up 16 bottles in and Ironman race bike leg (112miles) once - but it was 35Deg C and I was wearing a silly hot pointy aero hat and some of it went down my back and under my helmet - maybe 10-12 bottles in my gob. Still ended the race 20lbs lighter, on a drip and having an adrenaline injection I was in such a mess. I guess it's about the amount going in vs the amount coming out.

absolutely yes.

but a quick simple rinse is a common courtesy.

a polite break in the chain of contact from my sweaty nob, the shared trail-side malt-loaf, and my friends mouth.

you mucky pup you.

With your sensitivites you probably would not want to experience the toilet habits at the front end of triathlon 🙂 There is something wonderfully primal about just standing up on a gentle descent and pissing yourself!

For me the biggest difference between MTB and road riders is often intent. MTBers tend to be (how shall I say this) slightly older and more comfortably built with a mindset of having a nice day away from the kids. A lot of roadies are event orientated and are training for something - whilst the ride might be pleasurable often the primary purpose is one of training. Consequently they would not dream of stopping and ride to a more consistant effort level which means that carrying extra layers for a stop or a "relaxed" section is not an issue. They are also often working much harder and as long as they are warm (from their own energy expenditure) don't care too much about being dry. Food will be well thought out and compact. The route will hopefully be pleasant but has often been ridden a thousand time previously and therefore taking photos is less of an issue. Roadies bikes don't take the same hits and are often far more fastidiously looked after.

I have to also admit there is a bit of an arms race in most roadie groups - if your mates have faster kit than you and you are having to work harder to keep up you are going to be made to suffer at the end. In my prime I have to say I was a bit of an inverse gear snob and often road shonky looking kit with my commute pannier still attached just to get a rise from the others. Nowt better than besting someone to the top of a climb with a pannier slapping about next to their carbon best bike. You have to be very confident in your ability or you will be found out very quickly!

Best rearmounted AIRBAG, when you go sprawling over the bars 😆

I can manage the basics on my merlin with a saddle bag and 2 bottles on the frame but I too feel naked and unprotected without a back pack. When doing proper riding I will always wear one just in case I land on my back I like the idea of the padding and the camelbak bladder protecting my back.

It is also handy to make sure you don't leave anything and as mountain biking to me is about getting out and into the scenery I like to take a small camera.

One of my biggest reasons I have to take the backpack when sometimes I may not need to is the dog. I have to take enough water for the both of us and snacks for her. 2 800ml bottles (all that fits in my old frame) are not enough for both of us and if out for a long day I prefer to take her fold up water bowl so she can have a relaxing drink and of course she needs snacks just as much as I do.

I can't run a saddle bag on my fs bike as with the saddle down the tyre would mash it. I don't like carrying things in my pockets as it pulls the jersey down/makes it feel odd. I also carry more stuff and drink more fluid than I can carry easily on the bike. Without mentioning that I have several bikes and don't want to have to swap the bits over all the time.

One of my biggest reasons I have to take the backpack when sometimes I may not need to is the dog

And of course plastic bags for scooping poop...

Because we ride all day on stuff like this.....

[img] [/img]

Often in weather like this

[img] [/img]

or this

[img] [/img]

So we need stuff.
Simple.

Water. Simple realy. On road i carry 2 bottles and offroad i carry 2 ltr on my back

its all about water.

I dont like wearing one as i always get a sore back when i do, but for longer rides they do serve a purpose so i put up with it!

TandemJeremy - Member
Pure fashion. Its a part of the "uniform"
I very rarely carry one. [b]You[/b] don't need 3 l of water, [b]you[/b] don't need a rucksac full of stuff.

How do you know what anyone else needs you boring, sanctimonious, tiresome old man?

Do us a favour and flounce off again

TJ in sweeping generalisation and gobshite shocker. Everyone gets to choose what they ride with. I consider the saddlebags, frame mounts and loads of crap in jerseys a pain and would prefer to shove it all in a bag. Given not once has the water lept out of my bag, parts fallen out etc but I've had friends who've lost stuff off their frames or out of their pockets, I'm happy. Likewise, I don't sit around muttering about how stupid people who don't do it my way are.

For some reason I didn't think I was participating in an activity where orthodoxy and conformity was compulsory. Apparently I was wrong.

Couldn't think of anything worse than loading your pockets up with stuff when out riding.

This for me too. I just wear and old football training top when I'm out so don't have jersey pockets or anything. Even if I did I would hate to have bulging pockets stuffed full of crap.

Ditto for strapping it to the bike- I really, really can't bear the thought of mounting a pump to the frame or even having a saddlebag. It's clearly just personal preference, I'm sure we all agree that some things at least, are essential. It's pretty laughable that some seem to think there's a 'right' and a 'wrong' way to carry the same stuff.

[i]For some reason I didn't think I was participating in an activity where orthodoxy and conformity was what we pretend we're not doing, but actually the convergence of opinion regarding what to wear and what to carry suggests that we are as bad as every other sports fraternity out there[/i]

FIFY

What a bunch of sanctimonious pricks

For some reason I didn't think I was participating in an activity where orthodoxy and conformity was compulsory. Apparently I was wrong.

No you are right. Dare to question the orthodoxy (as I did) that you have to pretend you are in the wilds and need a full survival kit to go and play on your bike for a couple of hours and yo don't half get slated. I am not the only one on this thread to say a rucsac is not an essential piece of kit.

🙄

Read Crickys comments on the other thread for why you don't NEED 3l of water.

What a bunch of sanctimonious pricks

Pot to kettle, come in kettle..

Not saying your a pr1ck TJ but you can't half be one hell of a sanctimonious so & so..

 

guys,if you wana take a pack take one.Its about what you want to get out of it....personally;i have my bikes set up so i dont need any of the following: shock pump.why? i mean check before you go....
Spare pads....again look after your bike and it will look after you.
More than 3 tubes,ride tubeless with stans.
they annoy me on mechanic terms.
Its baisic principle to fully check your bike over before a ride,or usually in my case after so its sorted for next time.I learnt it slowly from experience at a young age riding by myself that mum cant always pick you up if something goes wrong.
I alway have a quick release saddle bag containing;
trail tool,with ten things on so not mega bike.
Chain tool.Snapped chains arent cool....
1 pedros tyre lever....my thumbs are steel after glueing tubs from the age of 10.
One tube.
one slime patch for said tube.
And a little plastic bag to fit a rolled up 10 pound note and 4 twenty pences in.
Then trial pump in pocket and your sorted.
2 Bottle cages on the bike on the road bike and 1 on the mtb and other bottle in the middle jersey pocket.Then paclite gillet with my phone rolled in and 2 bars 2 gels and a mars and banana in the other pocket .
That does you on rides up to 2 hr45 hrs over that same amount of food but extra bottle in jersey if on the road and if not extra tenner to buy drink on the ride.
Sorted.98% of rides covered....oh yeah and if you think you will lose your bottles.Get some tub glue and dot it on the arms of the cage it goes tacky forever and you never lose them on anything.
If you say....well thats pointless puting in on a light bike
thats the point.My bike weights 17.9lbs with 2x10 pedals 2.2in rubber the lot so 24lbs all in water the lot aint bad.
and a big morning poo ,sorted

Dare to question the orthodoxy (as I did) that you have to pretend you are in the wilds and need a full survival kit to go and play on your bike for a couple of hours and yo don't half get slated.

If you bothered reading the posts you would notice that for many people it is a matter of convenience. Multi tool, tubes, puncture repair stuff plus a couple of bits and pieces permanently live in a Hydrapak. If I'm going out, everything's ready. No messing about, pack on and out the door. What is the problem? Apart from the obvious fact that, according to you, I am a fashion victim playing survival games. You [i]really[/i] are incapable of seeing another point of view other than your own.

What a bunch of sanctimonious pricks

Pot meet kettle.

Stuff in pockets works fine as long as you have a tight fitting roadie style jersey. If it is baggie it just doesn't work and everything just bounces up and down/out.

I use a bag when I'm going into proper hills in winter so that I can carry spare clothes/bivi bag etc.

Summer rides/trail centres I get on fine with bottles.

It's easy to drink 1L of water an hour, you piss a lot but it's probably healthier than being dehydrated. If I'm going out for a quick spin I'll take as little as possible - a phone and keys maybe. I still wonder what part of my body I'd most prefer to have my keys stuck should I crash into and usually settle for arse.

On longer rides I'll take a pack containing a bladder, tube, pump, tyre levers, multi tools, a snack and maybe another layer. Crap that I'll need if something brakes. On building days an even bigger pack might include a hatchet, saw, more layers and a few beers.

Having stuff rattling around the bike is just nasty. Bottles fall out on all but the smoothest trails, the cages get mangled and mess the frame when you crash......things become the norm, or 'orthodoxy' when things are found to work better than other things.

Are we all sheep for running hydraulic disk brakes or suspension forks? (wierdos and mincers excluded of course).

No you are right. Dare to question the orthodoxy (as I did) that you have to pretend you are in the wilds and need a full survival kit to go and play on your bike for a couple of hours and yo don't half get slated. I am not the only one on this thread to say a rucsac is not an essential piece of kit.

You didn't question anything, you made a statement inferring that your preferred method was right. It may be right for you but that is your choice. I don't care how people carry their water and kit, you seem to care about how people carry theirs for some reason.

Nice one with the name calling. It lends a certain level of intellectual superiority to your argument. The full stop to the Plato-like debate you brought to bear in this, the agora of the mountain biking fraternity.

3 litres of water? How long are you going out for? 6 hours+ it makes sense - assuming there are no sources to refil from.

Eh? I can easily put away 0.75l/hour in winter, and well over 1l/hour in summer. Anything less isn't an option. Plenty of sound advice out there to advocate min 1l/hour in hot conditions. Having said that, I know people that get barely halfway through a 750ml bottle on a summer ride - weird IMO.

Then again, I don't fanny about on trails like some people do - I prefer to get a move on. And would much rather be hydrated as I do so.

Can we not have a sensible discussion without descending into pathetic, childish insults and a refusal to accept that we're all different and prefer different things?

Actually, thinking about it and looking back over the time I've been on here, no we can't.

Humanity - too many basic design flaws.

Can we not have a sensible, discussion without descending into pathetic, childish insults and a refusal to accept that we're all different and prefer different things?

Some of us can, yes. Others sadly cannot.