[Closed] Why can't Froome stop slagging off Bradley

TT-heavy grand tours are boring though. You want the duel to be in the mountains.

[quote=D0NK ]Ed Coode, Sarah Ayton, Leslie Law?

Only won a single gold medal at a games (I have to admit I even had to look up Leslie Law) rather than winning multiple golds at a single games. Ayton though did I think get rather more recognition as a repeat winner - she's certainly somebody who I instantly know what she did, despite also only following sailing at Olympics.

Though in terms of recognition, there's a big difference between Wiggo and Froome within the cycling community - Wiggo has come up through the British system, I remember him when he was a top junior, even as somebody who follows cycling I hadn't heard of Froome until a few years ago.

Which isn't exactly going to help with the love for Froome (which is what this thread is supposedly about), not when it's seen as him being the one who has a problem, and to be honest I've seen very little to suggest that's an incorrect assessment.

Apparently the animosity stems from the 2011 Veulta when Wiggo and Froome were roomies. Apparently Wiggins was very offish with Froome, hardly said two words to him and treated him like dirt until Froome was moved rooms as the management thought he may be ill.

The 2012 TdF was then Froome pouring fuel on the fire by generally being a bit of a dick.

2013 then saw Brad trying to undermine Froome as the team leader but didn't have the form to back up his words.

2014 apparently sees Brad trying to heal the wounds, undoubtedly to try to get into the tour team. Froome publicily isn't winning any fans by restining this but then can you blame him since what BW says and what he does are often two different things.

Who is to say that BW isn't thinking that he can get into the team as a super domestique but since the first few stages suit him then maybe he can be 2 mins ahead coming off the cobbled stage despite not activelty attacking his team mate. Then all he has to sit as second man in the Sky train up Les Plance des Belles Filles, lauch Froome like a good team mate but finish with the favourites on the stage only losing a handful of seconds to Froome. Sudenly he is in yellow, maybe Niballi and Contador are ahead of Froome as well after the cobbles. Then what do Sky do?

This is the situation Froome fears, why he doesn't want Brad in the team, not because they don't get on and he thinks Brad won't work and instead will soft pedal round at the back rather than being a good team mate.

Ironically if Brad wasn't good on the cobbles I think he'd have a better chance of getting in the team. He's more of a danger to Froome if he can be ahead, than an asset to help pull Froome along. He's got G for that.

Aracer you're obviously a lot more interested* in sport generally than me. I didn't even know who Pinsent was and had to check what sport Ainslie did 🙂

*That wouldn't be hard, it has to be said.

[quote=D0NK ]I didn't even know who Pinsent was and had to check what sport Ainslie did

I think that makes you rather less interested in sport than a lot of the general public!

Oh and further to my point, Wiggins came home from Beijing already in the top 10 of all time British Olympic medallists with 3 golds, a silver and a couple of bronzes.

I think that makes you rather less interested in sport than a lot of the general public!

I'm not a big fan of the Sky team - expensively assembled but boring and seemingly tactically limited. Then again I'm not a big roadie so I may be missing some of the genius of it all (and they've clearly won plenty "despite" that

Being non supporter of football I would have said that about Ferguson's Man Utd.

Has anyone else realized that the daily media coverage of Froome vs Wiggo is actually brilliant publicity for Sky, and that it is probably being managed/encouraged by the Sky media machine (and lets face it, Murdock knows a thing or two about the media)

While every other TdF team is quietly practicing/preparing for the tour, and not getting a square inch of media coverage between them, Sky have been on the front pages 2/3 times this week.

I wonder if the week before the tour we get a huge 'Froome and Wiggins bury the hatchet to ride in Sky super team' media push?

Personally I can't get excited about Froome, and really like Wiggins, however I think Sky are missing a trick if they don't have Wiggo riding the UK stages at least.
It would be great to see Wiggins pick up a couple of stage wins (TTs) while Froome goes after the GC?

He now lives in Lancashire.

I'll read Froome's book then make my mind up. And Brailsford's once he's retired.

I didn't hear anyone saying Froome had no class a year ago when he attacked, won the stage, and went into yellow on ax 3 domaines; or when he stayed strong despite his team blowing up the next day; or when he attacked on Ventoux and won while in yellow. All of that is pretty classy.

He is a dullard off the bike though

I did wonder if it's all a publicity thing - after all, Wiggo hasn't said Sky have told him he's not riding TdF...

@freeagent, perhaps but my view of Sky is worse than it was before this. The management have allowed this spat to be played out publically with Froome trying to slap down Wiggins. Very poor.

I didn't hear anyone saying Froome had no class a year ago

You mustn't have been listening very hard then.

(I'm not a big fan of the Sky team - expensively assembled but boring and seemingly tactically limited. Then again I'm not a big roadie so I may be missing some of the genius of it all (and they've clearly won plenty "despite" that))

Tactically limited? That's one thing I'd say they're not - they clearly know what to do to dominate stages. It may not always work, but they're certainly not limited.

Anyone but Bertie™ for me but I hope there's some old-fashioned racing along the way, rather than a 3 week powermeter contest

Vamos Bertie!

Although as long as there's some proper racing I'm not that bothered. Don't particularly care for Froome, and I do prefer Contador, but the important thing is the action. Just please - please! - not another Sky-dominated borefest.

Tactically limited? That's one thing I'd say they're not - they clearly know what to do to dominate stages. It may not always work, but they're certainly not limited.

(I can't offer examples as I'm making this shit up to fit with my vague recollections)

@freeagent, perhaps but my view of Sky is worse than it was before this. The management have allowed this spat to be played out publically with Froome trying to slap down Wiggins. Very poor.

I agree, however I'm pretty sure Murdock has previously said something along the lines of 'There is no such thing as bad publicity' so I'm not surprised.
As they are both paid employees of Sky I doubt either is daft enough to go completely 'off piste' and risk getting the boot (second thoughts - maybe Wiggins is)

mogrim - Member

Although as long as there's some proper racing I'm not that bothered. Don't particularly care for Froome, and I do prefer Contador, but the important thing is the action. Just please - please! - not another Sky-dominated borefest.

Are you suggesting that last year's tour was Sky dominated? Froome dominated, but Sky didn't, certainly not in the way they did the year before.

I agree, however I'm pretty sure Murdock has previously said something along the lines of 'There is no such thing as bad publicity' so I'm not surprised.

He's about to learn how wrong that statement is.

It may be good in the short term getting lots of publicity but in the long term his brand is going to be forever associated with ****ing over one of the biggest sporting icons this country has ever produced.

Was this not totally foreseeable? If Froome is the main man you want specialists as the hired help i.e. pure climbers as good as or ideally better than Froome. Wiggins is a GC contender by being good at limiting losses in the group riding stages and making up time in the ITT - but that does not make you a good super domestique.

Wiggins should have left Sky last summer. A terrible shame to have a TdF starting in the UK with Britain's favorite cyclist fit but not involved. It will be almost impossible to fathom by the general public.

Oh, and if you think of Team Sky as purely a marketing vehicle for the sponsoring brands - I would have Wiggins as you main man and Froome as first reserve on holiday in distant lands every day of the week. Froome will never sell bikes and never make your sponsored brand look cool. Inside sources tell me Froome is not making the sponsorship numbers work for Rapha - he is just not a personality anyone wants to emulate.

both are whinging cocks.... and the media loves a good bitch fight

let wiggins cry off to another team and get his ego massaged there

i'll be following the colombian hobbit this year

Interesting from Matt Slater's twitter:
"This really is last one on Froome/Wiggo (for a bit). Froome wanted to delay book until Xmas. He was persuaded otherwise."
So Froome didn't want to stir it up before the Tour.
http://twitter.com/mattslaterbbc/status/474839834729926656

Now that does not surprise me.

... Froome wanted to delay book until Xmas. He was persuaded otherwise.

I would perceive that as a sign of mental weakness.

If Froome is the main man you want specialists as the hired help i.e. pure climbers as good as or ideally better than Froome. Wiggins is a GC contender by being good at limiting losses in the group riding stages and making up time in the ITT - but that does not make you a good super domestique

isn't it ?

...he needs team-mates to keep the ave speed up and get him close enough to the summit finishes to do his own thing, or else help him chase on the flat (including after a descent) if he's lost time somehow

Aren't those the two things that Wiggins is really good at?

Average speed up a mountain would be right up his street, where it seems to go a little awry for Wiggins is the last km or so when the surges come from other riders. And as far as chasing on the flat goes Wiggins is one of worlds best pursuiters and time trialists, an ideal person to lead a chase.

Aren't those the two things that Wiggins is really good at?

Which is why it's not just "don't like him much"

Aren't those the two things that Wiggins is really good at?

Wiggins isn't staying at home because he wouldn't be an asset. Take the names out of it and say "do you want the second best TTer in the world, who just finished in the leading group at Roubaix and won the tour of california in your tour team?" and the answer would undoubtedly be yes.

Froome isn't even afraid that Wiggins doesn't want to work for him and will just ride arround france.

Froome is afraid that Wiggins will be ahead of him on GC when they reach the base of the first mountain and will then try to do to him, what he tried to do to Wiggins in 2012 but failed because he didn't have the balls to follow though on it.

you're deluded mate.

A quick note on the "buggering off" abroad thing. As a sportsmen you have a limited peak earning career, in sports like F1 or cycling where you spend most of the year travelling for events and training abroad why not live somewhere where you pay very little tax instead of paying away 50% of your earnings by being tax resident in the UK. You can still spend 90 days year in the UK. I'm not a fan of Froome but I don't blame him for being based in Monaco, not too shabby a training area either is it, up and down the French coast and into the mountains ?

you're deluded mate.

Why else would you leave him at home? Team harmony? Grow up!

If stage one was a **** off massive mountain that meant Wiggo would lose 2 mins he'd be in the team.

I'm not saying Brad could pull it off but Froome is afraid he will try.

I think we're all forgetting DB will be calling the shots, not Froome or Wiggins. I would suspect even if the Wiggo fan boys got their wish that Brad was 2 mins up after the first couple of stages that the team car would sort that out, not man vs man on the road - that would be a sure fire way of neither winning - sticking to 'the plan' is Skys strongest point (or possibly it's weakest, if the plan is just blast as hard as possible).

Obviously this isn't going to happen now.

Doesn't look much like Moser to me

Moser was always over geared and pointed his feet down which looked crap.

I don't think Wiggo is even in the top half of the best road cyclists but position, pedalling style etc he's in another league. Just a joy to watch.

Are you suggesting that last year's tour was Sky dominated? Froome dominated, but Sky didn't, certainly not in the way they did the year before.

Late replying, but no - I was indeed referring to the year Wiggo won.

Remembering Bradley's post race interview from the tour of California he expected to be in the TDF and given his age and present form expect he's pissed off right now as am I as a cycling fan looking forward to seeing the best riders compete.
The decision will have been joint DB and CF and regardless of the strategy it means I now hope Team Sky gets dumped early doors preferably in some humiliating fashion.

I now hope Team Sky gets dumped early doors preferably in some humiliating fashion.

jfletch - Member

The country's greatest sporting hero of this millenium, Martin Johnson

You must [i]really [/i]like rugby and not watch any other sport except road cycling.

[quote=breatheeasy ]I think we're all forgetting DB will be calling the shots, not Froome or Wiggins.

I have to wonder whether that's entirely the case - this does smack of Froome having rather more power than you suggest, as I'm still struggling to see the logic of it from a pure sporting perspective unless DB doesn't actually trust himself to do his job properly.

Like several others here, and as sad as it might be, I will have a little chuckle if Froome gets into trouble in a situation where Wiggo might have saved him - one obvious example apart from the cobbles is if echelons form on a windy day.

I agree with aracer and it is politics not talent that has decided this.
DB must know brad is stronger than some in that line up, as he has won the race a numpty could work this out.

Froome does not want him there so he is not going.

I think it's just a shame that a former champion in good form won't be riding. If nothing else, what happens to Team Sky if Chris Froome crashes / has an off day / gets crippling saddle sores early in the race?

Without support of his team, BW has zero chance of doing anything to bother the podium. So if Team Sky is the strict outfit it appears to be, with everyone (with the possible exception of BW / CF) following orders from DB, then CF has nothing to worry about. He may well be behind after the cobbles but it's all part of the masterplan. I can't say I understand all of this.

+1

If we assume that Brad is in good shape and thus strong enough to be in the team - a pretty safe assumption - then I can only see three reasons:

1. Froome doesn't want him in the team because he's 'afraid' of him
2. Froome doesn't want him there because he'll cause too much PR trouble
3. Froome/Brailsford doesn't think he'll be a team player, and thus not fulfill the domestique role

None of these appears to stack up to me.

Whatever the true reason, it's gonna backfire on Froome, as the (unsatisfied) general public will see him being the reason Brad is not there (and assume reason number 1).

This still going?

1 is certainly how the media will want to spin it (and ill informed public will believe.)

Do wonder if we're better off waiting for an announcement from Sky.

Froome is running the Sky team now ? Wow, he really should be admired

[i]*Wonders if we're all just being wound up ready for a "reconciliation" and Braddles to race with Froome after all*[/i]

3. Froome/Brailsford doesn't think he'll be a team player, and thus not fulfill the domestique role

this, plus Froome trying to sell a book.

Froome is afraid that Wiggins will be ahead of him on GC when they reach the base of the first mountain and will then try to do to him, what he tried to do to Wiggins in 2012

[img] [/img]

"The Great Attacks of Sir Bradley Wiggins", that famous book not available on Amazon. Wiggins isnt the fastest or strongest climber in Sky, let alone the entire GC field. Would seeing Contador, Froome, Rodriguez, Quintana etc etc dancing away on their pedals as Wiggins diesels his way along in the trailing distance not tarnish your fanboi image of him?

The only chance for Wiggins to go to the Tour is for Froome to be injured beforehand.

It's a shame he's not going to be there as he's a much more interesting person than Frome and it would have been nice to see him go past in Yorkshire. Frome's has a much more interesting riding style but comes across as a unlikeable.

this may be a repost but Millar (Robert) sums up the Sky own goal pretty well:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/robert-millar-blog-man-down

reggiegasket - Member

this may be a repost but Millar (Robert) sums up the Sky own goal pretty well:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/robert-millar-blog-man-down

Thanks for that I didn't know Robert had a blog and I do love his writing.

As usual his opinions are spot on.

This isn't a climbers course, the last competitive stage is a time trial and the one before that a flat stage. I don't think anyone's "afraid" but could BW have been in the GC mix perhaps by virtue of a supporting role within the team going into that last stage it would require only a solo effort.

I don't think that's the reason though, there's just too much I'll feeling between those guys to work effectively that should have been sorted by now.

It will interesting when Sky does make a statement but until then I'm feeling a downer on the event. The only thing that doesn't sit quite right is BW calm acceptance, if I were him I would be checking my contract.

.

But now you've said [i]something[/i] you might as well say the rest!

From Millar...

Things are pretty desperate when a national hero like Bradley Wiggins, first British winner of the Tour, one of the most successful Olympians, BBC Sportsman of the Year, honoured by the Queen, feted and admired throughout the land isn't at the start of a Tour de France in his own country.

Agree entirely. Team Sky in naive strategy shocka. I too would not be too upset if Froome has a bad day at the office. Go [url= http://www.omegapharma-quickstep.com/en/team/rider/michal-kwiatkowski ]Michal[/url]!

Team Sky in naive strategy shocka

It's utterly implausible IMO that this is down just to "not liking each other" and Froome saying he doesn't want (a willing) Wiggins in the team

What are crock from Millar. Starting stage is irrelevant. It's about the team and an individual winning the most important event in the sport. DB is not a muppet. They know what is happening on the inside we don't. Why is Brad a sacred cow? He is a brilliant cyclist for sure and no one would knock him for that. But 2012, he was not the best rider in TS. But he was team leader and he and the team won the race. The two alpha males sparred then and afterwards and Brad was hardly clean in how he behaved. So Froome is best bet in 2013 and 2014. Team is better without Brad. Get over it.

Then let's do the same with Wayne 😉

Froome has been described as the 'Kenyan born Froome' from day one by the british media.

Why should he give a toss what the British media / public thinks of him?

Why do we buy into all this patriotic / nationalistic bulls**t, sportspeople have always been motivated by self interest, cyclists especially.

I'm tired of all this 'plastic brit' nonsense, it's all getting a bit UKIP for me.

Enjoy the racing, the politics, the feuds and the tantrums but stop buying the xenophobic dross.

Team Sky have won the last two TdFs. I don't have the expertise to critique their team plan for 2014. I suspect Robert Millar doesn't know any more about the internal decisions of Team Sky than the people posting on this forum...

Team is better without Brad. Get over it.

I'm sure we will.... but [i]why[/i] is the team better without Brad? That's what we're trying to figure out. Do you have the answer?

Why should he give a toss what the British media / public thinks of him?

Could be because his earning potential (sponsorships, endorsements, personal appearances, book sales etc.) relies heavily on him being popular and in Britain at least that popularity will be influenced by the British press.

As for xenophobia, I'm rooting for Nibali.

Behave Inkster, Ukip my arse, its about who you feel some sort of connection to for most of us. I'll be supporting Dan Martin myself. He was born not far from where i live and i don't really care if rides under the Irish flag like a lot of Kenyans probably don't care that Froome rides under a British one. Also if anyone deserves to do well in the Tour its him after all the bad luck he's had so far this year, Come on Dan!

Actually Dan Martin is a good shout, I might switch. Can I be a plastic Irishman?

Yup, thats two of us now, any more? 😀

I'm not a sky/wiggo/froome fanboi or hater, but I didnt think wiggo going to the '14 Tour was ever on the cards or a good idea. Wiggins beating a bunch of kids in a second rate US race made commercial sense for the moneymen, with Sky being a division of Fox and 21st Century Fox a co-sponsor,but it wasnt befitting of a GT winner. Since 2012 Wiggins has done nothing racing-wise to justify his class-leading salary or to live up to his position.

Two years on he expects to be given a tour slot where he wont be a team player and doesnt get on with the team leader.

Rooting for riders has little to do with nationality for me. I love Purito as the attacking climber who never quite makes the top step, Nibali for his desperate/heroic attacks at the Vuelta, Dan Martin for his awful [s]pedalling in corners with a chunky Vector pedal technique[/s] luck, Tony Martin for being pipped to the line after a 150km solo effort... this is what makes road racing romantic and compelling, not where someone was born.

Is Dan Martin riding? This confuses my Nibali fandomism, like to see him do well. Can't actually explain why, just like I can't explain why I prefer Wiggo to Froome, nothing to do with nationalism though.

reggiegasket - Member
Team is better without Brad. Get over it.
I'm sure we will.... but why is the team better without Brad? That's what we're trying to figure out. [b]Do you have the answer?[/b]

Obviously not and can't be arsed with speculation. DB's tracks record earns him the respect to trust that he knows exactly what he is doing and it is probably not gong to be shared (until he finally cashes in with his autobiography upon retirement.)

Amazing how many people are tweeting, blogging or making statements about this (Greg lemond being the latest I noticed).

If this was a deliberate strategy by Wiggo to make sure he was picked, then it's working very well. If he wins in Switzerland, DB will find it hard to justify.

Dan Martin is injured surely? Barring a miracle recovery I'd be surprised to see him start the TDF

solved

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/wiggins-could-win-tour-de-france-if-he-just-goes-faster-than-everyone-else-2014060687317

No Dan's back on the bike already, was only a broken collar bone 😀

[quote=muppetWrangler ]Actually Dan Martin is a good shout, I might switch. Can I be a plastic Irishman?

I'm quite happy to be another plastic Irishman (I'm a genuine plastic Irishman with ancestry which means I could represent them at sports if I wanted to - at my best I was close enough to consider the idea). Go Dan, go, hope the Kenyan falls off.