As title really.
Just wondering how they size up.
Importer thinks I should be on a large but they have no info on reach.
Cheers.
Steve
Given your previous issues with fit, if you are unable to actually try one for size, it may not be the best move to buy something that doesn't even have a full set of geometry numbers available to at least get a good idea for the size on paper?
It's got everything apart from reach and stack.
Head and seat angle and ett are pretty much the same as my old five spot.
Ive got a large, I'm a gnats chuff under 6'2", ride a large with a 70mm stem & 740mm bars, I find it comfortable, but I'd still say throw your leg over one if you get chance. If you want me to stretch the tape over any bit I gladly will.
Frame reach is 427mm and frame stack is 640mm as a rough guide, measured whilst the bike was stood upright on a level floor, but there still might be a some slight error.
Cheers for that.
At 6 foot 2 are you long legged or long torso.
Reach is slightly shorter than my trance but the head angle is steeper so hopefully won't push the bars backwards to much if I have spacers under the stem.
What's your ett coming out at ?
Post some pics up.
I have one. I'm 5'11" - Blue Flow said medium, Switchback said large.
I went with large & use a 70mm stem.
Split a large Turner DW Flux with a 90mm stem.
I had a pro bike fit for my 56cm road bike (Trek Domane with 90mm stem) - the bike fitter said I had long legs for my height.
Thats good to know Dickie.
maybe the large will be ok for me then !!
I cant go to the xl as the seat tube is so long I wouldnt be able to run a dropper.
post a pic up of it please!!
[url= http://forums.mtbr.com/custom-builders-other-manufacturers/post-your-hammerhead-switchback-919248-16.html ]See bottom of page[/url]
Ha would you believe I was just on that page already !!
I see you run an inline dropper post, I would be running a layback dropper like a ks lev or command post so that will give me a bit more length too.
how does it ride then bud? any gripes with it?
I haven't ridden it enough to give good feed back but it feels fine for what I want.
My main ride is a Turner Czar which made the DW Flux redundant & 26" wheels alien. So I needed a bike for the rare occasions when a little more travel would be needed & therefore not too expensive due to infrequent use.
So I split the Flux, upgraded wifes mtb, sold the flux frame & surplus parts, & bought the new Switchback frame for £629, the new 2015 Rev's for £227 from Alltricks, & I had the wheels, so the out lay for a mostly new bike was very little.
Renton, where are you in the uk. I ride a large thumper, 60mm stem. Happy for you to try for size.
hi nickthegreek... I am in scotland, A place called Elgin.
How tall are you and how does it feel ?
A bit of a distance from Earby. 6ft 2 and comfy. Its an all day bike. Its good for everything I try it on. Roads, canal paths, lake district and scottish trails. Speak to Stuart at blueflow bikes. Good lad.
yep Ive been speaking to Stuart and he has said the large will be ok.
He has a white frame in stock or an ano black version coming in two weeks.
How do you find the reach and how have you built it up?
760mm 20mm riser nukeproof bars, slx 3 x 10, gravity dropper, hope hubs,mavic rims, nukeproof electron pedals, sektor forks. Reach just feels right, comfy but controlled.
Sweet, Ive just had an email from the bloke who makes them in US and he agreed with Stuart that I should be on a large !!
Get it. Enjoy it. Beast it.
6', long torso and on a large here. Fine for me with a 80mm stem.
Built up with 140 Sektors from alltricks, Hope/Mavic wheels, 3x10 SLX and deore brakes. A very affordable build and a great riding bike.
post some pics up people !!
I'm a bit confused. In your other thread you said a large codeine would be too small, but the large thumper seems to be the exact same size?
I've got a large Unveil which I've had since December, fit is good for me at 6'1" and 33" leg, it's set up with a 125 drop Reverb, 785 bars and a 50mm stem. My bike in 2x10 with a mix of XT, XTR, Hope, CB Wheels set up tubeless and Flats weighs in at 31lb, unless I went 1 x not sure where else to put it on a diet.
It replaced a Trek Remedy 19.5 frame on 26" wheels.
Probably done about 1000km on it, FOD, Wye Valey, Trail Centres and XC, it will probably be going to the Alps in July.
In hindsight I should have bought a 150 drop LEV and I might still do that, you can't fit a Stealth unless you want to drill a hole in the frame and I was advised not to when I asked.... Fair enough ..
As a budget frame package it is excellent value and rides in my opinion very well, happy to share more info if you want?
Slackman99.... been doing a lot of reading up on this and comparing angles etc.
the Thumper has a 73 deg seat angle compared to the steeper 74 on the codeine.
also the head angle is 68 v 67.5 so its a bit steeper.
compared to my old 5 spot which I got on with its got the same seat angle and a slightly slacker head angle.
The problem with the Trance for me was that the front end was to low for me, so by trying to raise it up I was shortening the cockpit due to the slack head angle.
Hope that makes sense.
Davidxbrown.... thanks for the info , how does it ride?? can you feel any flex in it at all? what shock have you got?
cheers
steve
The easy answer is the shock which is the Debonair, forks are 140 Pikes with the 51mm offset, between them the suspension feels bottomless.
Wheels are Crank Brother Iodine 2
I'm more of a wheels on the ground rider and on open tracks it covers the ground better then my Remedy, but in tight twisty stuff not so. There is no noticeable flex and I would say its stiff enough, it rolls really well but I reckon that's true of most 29ers...
One of the lads I ride with has demonstrated to me that it is quite capable in the air! Not small stuff either!
If you get one keep an eye on the pivot bolts, they unwind, better still take them out apply some loctite and refit... Other than that no other frame problems to report.
- YesterdayIm going to take my time and have a play on a few bikes.
That went well then
What legend says
I've read your other threads without commenting as I know how hard it is getting the bike of your dreams but not gelling. But it appears you are in serious danger of making the same mistake. Try some bikes and get one that fits. Don't rely on people selling you the bike via email confirming it will fit, or owners of the bike confirming its great. Most people will recommend what they have (probably a great bike btw, looks lovely). They're well intentioned but each of us is different.
Personally think you re reading far to much into the angles of the bike. One way of telling if it does fit and you get on with it and that's jumping on one (for as long as possible)
Slackman99.... been doing a lot of reading up on this and comparing angles etc.the Thumper has a 73 deg seat angle compared to the steeper 74 on the codeine.
also the head angle is 68 v 67.5 so its a bit steeper.
compared to my old 5 spot which I got on with its got the same seat angle and a slightly slacker head angle.
The problem with the Trance for me was that the front end was to low for me, so by trying to raise it up I was shortening the cockpit due to the slack head angle.
Then you'll also see that your Trance (I'm assuming it was large) had a notably longer reach than the one you are looking at now (439 v 427). You'd have to be raising the front end up a long way to make the reach of the Trance shorter than the Hammerhead.
I'd echo the others that given your situation it would be more advisable to buy stuff you can try properly first rather than relying on what some bloke on email has told you.
Tenacious Doug.
The chap who makes them in the US has come back to me with actual reach figure of 438.9 so pretty much same as trance.
As I said I'm sure by trying to raise the front of the Trance up with spacers was punting the controls back wards shortening the cockpit.
The controls on the trance were about 5-6cm lower than in my five spot.
Not just about fit though, also about how it pedals, jumps and handles.
For example I've been looking at a mid travel hard hitting 29er the 3 clear candidates are.
Kona Process 111
Transition Smuggler
Banshee Phantom
All three of these get rave reviews but when you really look at it you find out that the Kona is really not optimised for a 1x drivetrain which is a big thing. The Banshee Phantom apparently doesn't have as much 'pop' as the Smuggler and isn't as fun.
As countless others have said, why don't you go to an actual, proper bike shop and demo a few bikes?
You're obviously a little (lot) quirky in your setup if you want a sky high front end, obsessing over numbers on the internet is a sure fire way of getting it wrong, again.
Most of your conclusions don't even make sense, yet here you are, about to buy a bike you've never even seen in the flesh, let alone swung a leg over & you're trying to self convince it will fit you.
This has got disaster written all over it. Only this time you won't have an easy, popular bike to sell.
By all means, go for it, i'm sure the mob on here will be waiting with baited breath for the next installment of "my bike doesn't fit/it feels weird/I don't know what to do/delete as appropriate"
You really don't help yourself.
The problem with getting a demo on a few bikes is that locally there arent many bike shops.
plus Im sure you would all agree that nowadays you can get so much more bike for your money buying online, loads of people do it and how many of those have managed to get a test ride beforehand, I'd suggest not many.
Im not just going to jump in and buy it despite whats posted on here, i am looking around still to see if any other new bargains come up.
Would really like to have a look at a canyon spectral but they are out of stock until august.
Spectral is a classic example of not relying on numbers and geo charts. i have a spectral 29er, and the ETT they state is quite a difference from the real world measurement.
FWIW I've never demo'd a bike, and have never bought a bike I never got on with. You do seem to have a very definite requirement of your setup positions though, so seem like the kind of fella that really should be demo'ing bikes.
What about the local club, there's a big club in Moray IIRC, join them and ask politely to try some of their bikes? or go to one of the bigger demo days at GT?.
Then make a trip of it, rather than making another expensive mistake.
There are plenty of online bike bargains these days. But if a bike doesn't fit, or you don't like how it rides, it doesn't matter how much of a bargain it is. Surely your last experience has taught you that?
I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't test ride a bike before they buy it, on the other hand, there are also lots of people who do test ride - and ride lots of different bikes before making a decision.
Clearly you have some quirky requirements - perhaps looking for specific bikes just because they are cheap isn't the right way to go about buying something new. The best bike for someone isn't necessarily the best spec for the lowest price. It's the one that suits you the best. So what if it has an SLX rear mech rather than an XTR one?
Spend a weekend at a demo event. It might cost you £150, but I bet you that's a whole chunk less than you lose when you buy another bike that doesn't work and you have to try to offload it.
+1 for testing a bike.
It's more important to have a test ride on an FS bike because the suspension platforms feel so different between VPP, single pivot, FSR, etc. I personally love single pivot and find it suits my style of riding and 'feels right' but others hate it.
I can't stress enough that test rides are key. Look what happened with your Trance. On paper you said it looked perfect but you didn't get on with it for whatever reason. How can you be sure that any bike you order online will suit you? You'll only kick yourself because you made the same mistake again. Why not put out a request for riders willing to let you test their bikes?
Tenacious Doug.The chap who makes them in the US has come back to me with actual reach figure of 438.9 so pretty much same as trance.
Fair enough, those measurements are quite different from those quoted elsewhere in the thread 🙂
Though I'd still be advocating testing, even if that means time and money to do so. I assume you will have lost money on the Trance, and if you do end up with another unsuitable bike then you will have lost more on unsuitable bikes than you would have spent on a trip for some demos. Plus the online stuff aint so great VFM if you do continue to buy the wrong thing and have to sell on at a loss.
You speak very fondly of your 5 Spot.
Why don't you build one back up?
You could build a proper good spec one for the budget you have. And you know it fits.
I won't repeat (too much) what these last few post have said, but +1 for demos even if it cost you money & sellers saying yep that'll fit "buy one". It's no good saving money by buying online if it doesn't suit you, & you then have to flog it on cheap!
The one bike I thought would be ace for me, turned out to be a one I'd have hated, if I'd bought it.. that's after a year of deciding it would be the perfect one.
Please, please, see these comments as trying to help you, I know you've had some micky taking on previous threads, but some ppl are trying to help!
I'd also suggest trying some bike with different figures to what you used to, just to confirm your figures are correct.. For example, it's great saying well the reach on that bike was perfect.. but you haven't tried a longer reach to see if that would be even better? (just based on a vague recollection of a picture of you a on tiny frame)
Z1ppy Thanks, I appreciate the concern !!
I couldnt get my head around the Giant sizing either?
the bike had the same top tube length and an even longer reach than my previous 5 spot and yet it still felt smaller? how does that work?
some measuremnts here to compare the 5 spot and the thumper so people can see where Im coming from....
5 spot first.
HA :- 69 v 68
SA :- 73 v 73
ETT :- 24.2 v 24.4
REACH :- 16.7 v 17.28
STANDOVER :- 32 v 31
SEAT TUBE:- 21 v 19.6
I was uber comfy on the 5 spot and only sold it to try out a newer by bike which I will admit was a serious mistake.
The Thumper has near enough the same geometry but in a 29er which I like and also tapered headtube and maxle rear end.
Its a horst link rear end which Im used to having previously had lots of specialized bike and I cant seem to find a negative word about it. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
cheers
Steve
So, why not build a 5 Spot?
Cant find any mate!!
I won't repeat (too much) what these last few post have said, but +1 for demos even if it cost you money
Good advice z1ppy. Remind me, how did that test ride on the Evil go 🙂
Seriously, it probably is good advice. It certainly gets repeated often enough. But my problem with test rides is suspension set up. Probably just because I'm a numpty, but it takes me ages to get suspension set up to suit me and when its wrong the bike feels horrible.
Since we're offering renton unsolicited advice, might I suggest that the bike might not be the issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm the world's worst when it comes to over analyzing stuff. In fact I enjoy pouring through geometry charts and posting endless questions about the nuances of different designs. But even I'd have to accept that there is a lot to be said for just buying the bike that you really want (for whatever irrational reason) and riding the crap out of it. Let's face it, there are hardly any bad bikes out there these days and there is no real consensus on sizing (or anything else for that matter). Whatever your dimensions you'll find people who are the same shape riding larger and smaller bikes quite happily. They all work and if you ride them often enough and long enough they feel right.
The problem is the old buyer's remorse. When you've dropped a load of money on a bike you can find yourself endlessly questioning yourself about whether it was the right choice. Maybe it should have been bigger, smaller, slacker, longer travel, shorter travel, with different sized wheels etc. But really it's just a bike. There are people out there riding the same trails as you on bikes that are far worse or far less suited to the task, but with a big smile on their faces. Be one of them. Here endeth the lesson 🙂
^^^^^^^ 
I think thats my problem to be honest, over analyzing everything !!
Don't worry mate, you're not alone 🙂 Thanks for taking the "advice" in the spirit it was intended.
I'd echo all of the above and add to it the question of wheel size.
All the geometry and sizing might appear to be approximately consistent but it's not exactly like for like when comparing a 26" and 29" set up.
In all the previous discussions I've not seen any mention of the wheelbase, bottom bracket height (or drop) etc and given that manufacturers measurements can't be absolutely relied upon it's still seems to much of a click and hope when buying purely based on internet research.
Good luck though. I'm actually looking along the same lines.
Given the importance of the fit and feel of the bike it's still just a click and hope if the only way to buy is online.
😯 @ RP.. Evil demo due next week, maybe this week if were really lucky (doubtful), though my demo may also be described as 'owning'.... in my defence no one can demo a bike that hasn't appeared & I have thought demoed a number of different 'similar' 29er FS bikes and taken that experience (& geo figures) forward but yes I am having to take a leap of faith 😳
Sorry z1ppy, just pulling your leg. It would be a pretty boring world if we only ever did the sensible thing. We wouldn't be riding bikes down mountains for a start.
Hope the Evil turns up soon. I'm sure you'll love it.
I know & was a fair call, and I bloody hope so (on it "turning up soon" and loving it)..
the bike had the same top tube length and an even longer reach than my previous 5 spot and yet it still felt smaller? how does that work?
Perhaps you've had a growth spurt since you had the Five Spot?
I'd definitely consider trying quite a few different bikes in various sizes, just to get a good idea of what suits you.
I mean, is it wise to trust a load of unknowns on the internet? They may just be bullshitting you about their bikes & sizing, in a bid to get another slightly amusing thread about the trials and tribulations of your life/bikes.
I'd also suggest taking a long, hard look at the sort of riding you do; I thought most of your cycling was commuting to work and then a qucik blast round the woods? In which case, is a long travel 29er really the best tool for the job?
I know & was a fair call, and I bloody hope so (on it "turning up soon" and loving it)..
You also don't have quite the same "unique" fit requirements of Renton, neither do I!
😀
Test ride.
Manufacturer's geo charts are quite often wrong. Take them as a starting point rather than gospel.
You should consider the Bird Aeris instead Renton.
They make a point of having longer frames, so it'd be a safer bet if you're determined not to try before you buy.
longer frame can lead to wrist issues though....... we really need a full requirements list here.
Also long will need an even higher front end for gut room - ahem - I mean control!
I really like the Aeris and have been in touch with Ben about them.
I still think the front end will be to low for me as its not to dissimilar to the trance stack wise.
Fantastic looking bikes though.