Saddle when descending even the steep stuff? I never drop my saddle on my HT trail bike, I see it as a bit of a challenge with the seat up.
I usually drop hither, thither, somewhere and here. But never there.
me.
HT doesn't have a QR so got used to it. On the 5 I never think to drop it !
drop where ?
Maybe the stuff you are riding is not that steep then OP? As surely there comes a point where gravity/physics take over if you not hanging off the rear wheel?
you can hang over the wheel without dropping the post though
you can hang over the wheel without dropping the post though
True...bit awkward though.
can get over the saddle without it and I often don't bother. Does make it a bit easier/more secure though.
it's getting back over an un-dropped saddle that usually catches one out.
True...bit awkward though.
agreed 😛
in fact I thought that on the chute at McMoab !!
I have a hole in my thigh where a seat rail tore me open after ripping out of the seat. That was going over the bars on some steep stuff on AbbaZabba. I have recently fitted a Joplin and I'm gonna use it.
Drop it on the Soul on stuff like Jacobs Ladder and The Beast, but not a lot apart from that. Maybe Cavedale too.
Jamie, What's steep for you? Some stuff I ride is pretty steep but not to the point of being stupid. I have ridden the red DH at Fort William, Ben Lomand etc on my HT with the seat up and for the best part was fine. Of course there are times I become a bit unstuck and have tumbles but who doesn't? I do drop it on my FS now and again though.
"bit of a challenge with the seat up"
Indeed it is when the terrain gets steep or rough. But if racing or time trialling or whatever, I have no inclination to stop and mess about with it so just have to gulp and do it.
Trail riding yes, I drop mine 3" for every decent length descent. It just makes the bike that much easier to manoeuvre through fast corners, roll-downs and little drops without fear of being bumped off by the saddle.
On the hardtail with carbon seatpost fitted, no - never. But then I'd use the FS for real hooligan stuff.
Depends how long and how steep really, on the CRC marathon in september i did it after going across the top of the mountain as the drop down was very rocky and slippy plus i was bloomin knackered and could barely get back on the bike without falling off again!
Never feel the need to drop mine,if I decide it's too steep for me then I still wouldn't ride it with the saddle down.
Always for any decent length of DH. I cant really cope with it if its up my arse even if the trail isn very steep I like to get all over the bike.
I'm with coatsey, I use a bolt-up collar and I can't be arsed with it. When I've done it, I can see the benefit but I just don't. Then again, I'm sh1t down technical stuff so maybe I should. There's no way I'm going to bolt .5kg of post-dropper onto the bike tho' (weight weenie, but you should see me climb).
Depends on the bike, on my Anthem I never do as it's a twin bolt clamp, on my 456 I do if I can be bothered, but has to be steep as I'm too lazy most of the time!
It's not getting over the rear wheel that's a problem, it's getting back on again that I struggle with. Especially if my shorts hook up on the seat as well. Nightmare.
Always messing about with saddle height, might get a dropper eventually, but they're expensive. Especially as if I get one and I like it, I'll need one on the other two bikes as well. Also, it plays merry hell with your matching finishing kit!
Quite a lot to be honest on both my HT and my FS
I started running the seat slightly lower all the time - a little harder on the climbs but hardly ever need to drop it now.
never drop it!
me - hardly feel the need ever to drop the post - only once in the last few years and that was on my first slippy wet descent of cavedale in the peak - now i can ride it 'up' ok... i do mince and go slow n steady ! Plus re shorts snagging - i mostly use tights / 3/4s and i dont snag - sometimes i do catch my endura baggies... most 'proper ' rides i go for the lycra...
to date / hellvellyn - rosthwaite / seathwaite / top o'skiddaw / walna scar / garburn / cadair idris / snowdon / the ben alll done this year with post up...
i do appreciate seeing all the threads re joplins etc - ones i have seen on the trail have been 'tempermental'... i am intrigued by them but maybe its just another 'rad fad' (TM) to go with the image... and my baggy shorts...
paul
Always drop mine. If you don't need to drop it on steep stuff, it's either not steep, or you're not going fast enough 😀
My saddle never moves.
Saddle height is a compromise between legs getting a workout / being lazy and being able to get off the back, should I need to, but unless its near vertical, I stay sat of hover over the saddle anyway.
Don't brake on steep things and you won't go over the bars.
I've started trying more stuff with mine up, and it's yet to cause me any real problems, and it seems like a useful skill... but it's nothing like as effective as having it down, so I won't be changing over.
househusband - Member
On the hardtail with carbon seatpost fitted, no - never. But then I'd use the FS for real hooligan stuff.
He he he... You double gnar bastard!! 😆
if I don't drop the saddle while descending the seatpost usually gets bent pretty quickly..
I probably ride with my saddle completely slammed far more than at full height!
at the start of this winter I left it at full extension for about a month (unusual for me, but I was riding very familiar or fairly untechnical trails all month) and it was fine everywwhere including steep chutes and I still managed to jump doubles etc, with a little style... But any of the more fun descents/technical riding was nowhere near as much fun (or as fast) as I was forced to ride far more within my limits.
eg. on flat pedals you simply cannot get as much grip with the saddle at full extension as when it's out the way, you can't pump as well or pick the bike up and you are way less stable when it gets hairy!
...pants on a first date?
...kebab with excitement?
..aitches when talking to lower class people?
Nope, my saddle never moves.
....kids off at the pool?
Ah another blessed thread that mistakes dopping your saddle as being to allow you to get your weight back rather than down...... 🙄
saddle on my single speed doesn't move. the other one does. don;t know why it's like this - but thats the craic.
I never used to ever, because I used the saddle as a reference point. It always felt realyl really weird riding with the saddle down. I do now, but to be honest it still feels really odd on the 5, but not much at all on the Patriot.
I think a slacker angled bike suits that kind of position more. The 5 with the saddle down feels like it has a stupidly steep head angle and the handling is really strange - worse than when riding the same stuff with it up. I've started dropping it a few inches instead of all the way.
FFS STFU about angles you clueless dweeb!
What do you think the average head angle for a BMX is?
FFS STFU about angles you clueless dweeb!
Ahahaha.. clueless.. heehee!
What's BMX angles got to do with how my 26" wheel 22" top tube FS MTBs handle on steep technical descents?
If I lower my body, what happens to the steering axis relative to me?
i can ride everything without dropping my post but it more fun and easier with it dropped than with it up- GD eliminates faff. I see no need to decid eone is better than the other but I suspect Downhill riders do not have their seats as high as a xc racer.
Last I looked BMXs were pretty good for riding vert and you can't get much steeper than ****ing vert can you?
I suggest you lower your body and go and have a little lie down rather than worrying your head making up daft analogies.
If you weren't clueless you'd know the difference in stability between your 5 and patriot is NOT down to the slight difference in headangle alone! and you'd also know that each bike actually rides exactly the same no matter what height the saddle is at when riding anything technical/steep as you should be standing up! on technical/steep terrain the saddle is only needed for control, with your inner thighs.. it will however feel more comfortable to control at a certain height for each individual.
High poster all the way here...
never drop mine - mainly as I had loads of knee problems in my youth - finally found a good seat height so I never move it! never really had a problem. Can fully see the benefit of it in tricky steep stuff but I can't be arsed stopping, then stopping again to re-adjust.
I'm a confirmed dropper and I'm partial to slipping a comfort inch on a lot of stuff. I've never been confident about getting behind the saddle. I do ride a bike that's nominally too big for me, so I can get the saddle high enough. I'm cursed with long legs and a short body AND I keep my toes down most of the time so I need a silly high saddle.
Nan Bield down to Haweswater? Aye - that'll be the saddle on the frame and the rear tyre flossing my cheeks
I often drop my saddle on downhill runs and jumps. I have jumped gaps and tabletops with the saddle up and it is a hell of a lot better with the saddle down........
I suspect you non saddle droppers are either xc mincers or riding gods 😉
My body shape doesn't allow me massive amounts of room to manoeuvre if the saddle is fully up. So I drop it on the down parts if I know I might need to move around a bit.
I often drop my saddle on downhill runs and jumps. I have jumped gaps and tabletops with the saddle up and it is a hell of a lot better with the saddle down........
I suspect you non saddle droppers are either xc mincers or riding gods
somewhere in between 😉 not one for big airtime anyway!
So is it just me who finds cornering much easier and faster with the saddle down then?
Never tried dropping it, cant on the current bike anyway as it's got a seat mast.
Can see the merit, just don't feel the need personally. I'm not going to drop it when racing, so I'd rather not get used to it being dropped when riding.
Found a height that is not quite full up, that doesn't cause me undue back or knee issues and is low enough that I can drop my weight and clear the saddle without worrying about catching on it on the stuff that I am happy to hit at speed.
On the stuff I mince through, well, I'm usually worrying about more than saddle height.
I may very well get a dropper if/when I build up something new though; been around long enough now that they seem to be here to stay and with RockShox and Spesh now going that route, I doubt the big, early issues will last too much longer.
I do but not very often, can't be bothered with the pile of poo AKA Hope QR clamp. If I could afford one that fits my 456SS then I probably would but I can't.
Never. Same goes with lockout & talas, I don't like changing my riding position.
I only really drop it for decents where I stop and check I rememberd my balls too - which isnt all that often - most of the time I dont ride anything steep enough - or its too short a stretch to really bother sorting the bike out for - so its bum on the wheel chest on the seat and cling on.
I don't drop my saddle, two reasons, I loose my "place" on the bike*, and second, if it is that steep my internal "shit, you'll die" controls over-ride me anyway. So I just don't bother dropping the saddle
*I once broke a saddle clamp and had to ride down the Nan Bield pass - didn't have a clue where the bike was in relation to my body, and was petrified I'd get a seatpost enema at any moment.
out on a ride i almost mates touch it. But a play on a dual slalom course had of puttingit right down. Not so i could get down the course but to allow more body movement. I then found myself walking back up as i couldn't be bothered to put my peat back up
I don't like changing my riding position.
I don't think it really changes your riding position much, just gets the saddle out of the way which I find gives you more confidence. I hate descending (other than easy ones) with the seat up, just can't get used to the feeling of the saddle being there. Maybe because I'm from bmx where the saddle was always around knee height or lower when standing.
ampthill:out on a ride i almost mates touch it. But a play on a dual slalom course had of puttingit right down. Not so i could get down the course but to allow more body movement. I then found myself walking back up as i couldn't be bothered to put my peat back up
On the iPhone mate? 😉
If you weren't clueless you'd know the difference in stability between your 5 and patriot is NOT down to the slight difference in headangle alone! and you'd also know that each bike actually rides exactly the same no matter what height the saddle is at when riding anything technical/steep as you should be standing up!
Good grief, who pissed on your chips? Leave the insults alone!
Firstly, the position of the saddle DOES make a difference, since you put your body in a different place. Otherwise what's the point of lowering it?
Secondly, I didn't say that the Patriot is more stable than the 5 as a general statement. What I said was that when you drop the saddle, the Patriot remains stable, whereas the steering on the 5 gets more twitchy. The DIFFERENCE in stability is greater on the 5.
I didn't make up a daft analogy, I am telling you what actually happens when I do these things. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm imagining it, but really, not everyone in the world is an idiot who imagines silly things. Some people are actually capable of experimenting with things and carefully evaluating the results.
I still say BMX geometry is a red herring here because the bikes and the riding done are completely different. For instance, BMXs ride verts yes but there's always a nice snooth curved run out. Would you like to bring your BMX along to my steep rocky trails?
Be nice, for goodness' sake!
with saddle down 3" it makes controlling and pumping the bike much easier IMO . ESP. Cornering because the saddle doesn't push you over when you push the bike over. Try it.
I don't think I ever get behind the saddle except briefly on very steep roll downs. How do you control the bike in that position?
I don't put my seat down for descents. I do put it up for climbs though. There's a distinction
kiwijohn - Member
"Never. Same goes with lockout & talas, I don't like changing my riding position."
A few people have said things like this. I don't get it. Are you dropping the post then sitting on it? My riding position while descending is much the same whether the saddle's up, down, or the seatpost's broken and is in my rucksack 
Having it down gives freedom of movement when you move out of the neutral riding position but it has no effect at all when you're in the neutral riding position.
I don't put my seat down for descents. I do put it up for climbs though. There's a distinction
Now that is the correct frame of reference! Who rides for the ups....?!*
*Masochists that's who.
xc mincer here
I'm not going to drop it when racing, so I'd rather not get used to it being dropped when riding.
This. Though I have to admit to wondering whether there is a real benefit to dropping the saddle in speed terms on the downs which would make carrying the extra weight of a dropper seatpost (which you lose no time adjusting) worth it.
I drop mine quite often, but not every time. I do it moreso to make it easier to bale off the bike, rather than making it more manoeuvrable - I find it easy enough to hang off the back.
sorry jamie. predictive text on a nokia. Oh the joy predictive text doesn't know the word predictive.
wondering whether there is a real benefit to dropping the saddle in speed terms on the downs
I find it makes a difference, for me comfort and confidence = speed 🙂
never drop mine because no QR but wish I could after an incident a few weeks back...don't think I'll be having kids any time soon 😉
I find the height of the saddle that is good for me for climbing (very high) is really a big negative when descending - it really gets in the way when trying to get the C of G lower and keep the bike mobile on really technical stuff.
OF course keeping the saddle up is THE way to go downhill, thats why you see all the pros riding their saddle 6" above their bar, I'm just a clueless newb 🙂
Only recently been introduced to it. Find it a real faff to have to stop, fiddle around etc then can't get clipped in before messing the descent up as I feel I'm all in the "wrong" position. Then can never find the right position afterwards plus the seat post keeps gently slipping. I can see the advantages though, even if I'm rubbish at descending. To sum up, I won't be bothering as I'd rather get on with the ride than faffing.
I can't ride with the seat dropped it feels wrong and cramps my legs.If it is that steep I won't ride it.I also can't be bothered to naff about lowering the seat for the odd bit of steep stuff time you have done it you could run to the bottom
I have to admit to wondering whether there is a real benefit to dropping the saddle in speed terms on the downs
Doesn't slow me down at all on descents in general. The only time I do it is when something's really steep and it'd help to get my weight down and back. OR when it's a load of twisty singletrack and I want the bike to be really manoevrable.. but I'd have to be really going for it to do that and it'd have to be a long descent to make it worth it.
Molgrips - I was nice enough to give you the chance to STFU 8) If you consider "being clueless" as an insult, I'll appologise, kiss (for the Tagger's pleasure ^^ 😉 ) and make up.. 😉
Happy New Year!!
Anyone fancy riding this down anything steep?
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Before anyone says I have the wrong sized bike - no I don't. I have long legs and a short torso, so a bigger bike would be too long. This also puts my COG high up and the short reach means I physically cannot get off the back of the saddle and remain in control.
Before anyone says I have the wrong sized bike - no I don't. I have long legs and a short torso
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR, and friend, earlier. 😉
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Well yes, clueless is an insult, but that's ok 🙂 My 5 still feels weird with the seat down.
I used to ride with it fully up at my optimum pedal position then stop to get it down a bit if nearing some tech sections.
I now figure (whether rightly or wrongly) that I may as well drop it down just a touch, maybe an inch or so, just enough to make gusset clearance easier than normal, I think you get used to pedalling, no matter the gradient, in this compromised saddle position mode if you do it regular.
I think of it as giving me an extra workout, just the same as I sometimes enjoy deliberately putting tyres on that I know will make me have to push that bit harder. It does seem to make life easier for when I need to throw the bike over something.
Singlespeed and non QR clamps have been mentioned, my HT is SS and uses a non QR clamp, I carry the allen key required in my pocket (which happens to be the same size as the bolt to undo/tighten the chain tension device too, which is handy) and don't find it that much of a pain to do instead of QR.
I find myself spending far more time pedalling standing up with SS so not affected much there either.
It's a much harder decision with the full susser for the climb parts, for obvious reasons, tempted to get a dropper post one day so I can go all out on the susser, up and down without stopping
But for me, seat down a bit is a must.
I put mine up if there's a big climb. but mostly I enjoy riding the bike stood up so I'd rather have the seat out of the way. Obviously not great if your XC racing, but if you're 'just riding' then the bike feels so much nicer.