Ooh that's a bit cheap eh! Considering a winter bike and would love a P2M on both road bikes.
ok I understand now, its a shame they don't offer a mtb sram version, would have been sorted then!
could you not use the s900 model with sram mtb cranks? the spline interface is the same, of course, you are limited to the chainring size, but 34t is ok with a 42-10 out back - im sure ive seen a 33t narrow wide 110mm bcd chainring somewhere as well?
this is cheap as well
as is the G3
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/powertap-g3-rear-hub/
Fetha make the chainring
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from this thread on MTBR
http://forums.mtbr.com/xc-racing-training/power2max-mtb-power-meter-889731.html
m sure ive seen a 33t narrow wide 110mm bcd chainring somewhere as well?
I wouldn't have thought so, it needs an even number of teeth to be narrow/wide.
I just had the power meter discussion with the wife and almost had permission for a stages....would much prefer the p2m though.
I wouldn't have thought so, it needs an even number of teeth to be narrow/wide.
typo yer? i even mention 34t chainring further back in the same sentence
but [b]34t[/b] is ok with a 42-10 out back - im sure ive seen a 33t narrow wide 110mm bcd chainring somewhere as well?
Looks like the Verve InfoCrank is [url= http://road.cc/content/news/117220-verve-cycling-launch-infocrank-power-meter ]coming soon[/url]. Curious that it's 110BCD only initially. And the price, well it's sort of in line with what's already out there, which is a bit of a shame.
First look at the Rotor LT over at [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/rotor-lt-power-meter-first-look-41985/ ]bikeradar[/url]. Not a perticularly insightful piece. If I was looking at a Stages I'd definitely be considering one of these too.
Meanwhile, happy with my new P2M 🙂
just a stages with everything outback as they have obviously seen people have issues with clearance
like a surly krampus 🙁
Another hat in the ring. Just been reading about the [url= http://watteam.com ]WATTEAM[/url] PM. Looks interesting. No idea how far from market they are, but a price of $499 would make things interesting (though no doubt will end up closer to 600 quid by the time the importers take a slice.) Looks a bit fragile for MTB maybe.
Not sure how the sensor attaches to the crank, maybe you have to bond it yourself? Also not sure how it caters for different cranks, seems to suggest you have to somehow configure/calibrate it for your setup.
Just found a video too...
Garmin jumping on the single sided cut price bandwagon. A [url= http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/08/eurobike/garmin-introduces-cheaper-one-sided-vector-s-power-meter-plus-new-data-geek_342729 ]single sided Vector[/url] announced at Eurobike. 900 dollars for one vector pedal.
The Watteam looks very interesting, a single Vector could be good too.
Guy I know is having real problems with his Vectors, he swapped 'em from his TT bike to his road and back again and now they're reading about 80-100W low, power was plausible on his TT bike and road bike but after swapping 'em back they're reading low. He's tried reinstalling 'em but no joy. Not sure if it's one, or both.
Do wonder if there is a problem when most of the Garmin team don't even run the vectors.
Hadn't realised you needed a torque wrench to install Vectors, one of the things that appealed was the abilty to quickly swap them between bikes, and stick them on the MTB for the odd ride etc. Less keen if that's likely (as it seems) to introduce problems. If they are that torque sensitive I'd be looking at your friend's torque wrench MF!
Maybe they're just sick of club TT's 😛 , I've not seen him in a while so not sure if he's tried a different torque wrench, bit of a head scratcher, meant to ask him if it was just one pedal or both. I remember reading DC Rainmaker talking about the effect incorrect torque had on 'em in his review, knowing Garmin it'll be software...
Blimey a $399 power meter by [url= http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/09/4iiiis-introduces-precision.html ]4iiii announced at Interbike[/url]. Even that ends up being £399 that's pretty impressive. Looks a lot like a Stages, other than you glue it on yourself.
Does look impressive! Along with the Watteam Power Beat and the Xpedo Thrust E.
Not sure it'll work on a Trek Madone though.
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You've got to love the guy!
Would really like a PM on the MTB...I wonder if my exhaustively analy retentiveness could cope with the thought of a different PM possibly giving different results!
Yes, really hoping that Watteam can get it done at that price.
Clearance on the Madone? Apparently you can attach the 4iiii PM pod to either crank arm. Must be enough clearance on the drive side.
Monkeyfudger, I've got a PowerTap and a Power2Max. They do give different results, but the difference is pretty consistent (about 10 watts lower on the PT, which you'd sort of expect given one is crank and the other hub.) I do occasionally tweak things to account for it though.
Also, seems a good time to say that my P2M battery flashed up "low" yesterday, reckon it's got at least 8-9000 miles in it over just less than a year. This will also include maybe 15-20 hours driving where due to the cars motion the PM will be switched on.
Oh and my above comment ref the faulty Vectors, turns out it was a dodgy Garmin head unit screwing up the calibration somehow hence the weirdness after the install, fine now with a different Garmin.
Was the Watteam the other self install one (from Israel I think?)?
Clearance on the Madone? Apparently you can attach the 4iiii PM pod to either crank arm. Must be enough clearance on the drive side.
It's the brake (being on the chain stays) that causes issues I believe. You'd imagine the DS would be fine though.
Was the Watteam the other self install one (from Israel I think?)?
The very same.
Interesting thought in the 4iiii review, that prices will continue to drop untill stages etc are doing both arms for the current price. Guess it makes sense as the unit cost must be small so as long as production can meet demand (guess that might be the stumbling block) then it makes little difference as you recoup the development costs over the same number of sales, just selling each person 2x as many (relatively cheap to make) black boxes.
Interesting to see what will happen to prices. I guess all the imminent budget PMs are going to worry the likes of Stages a lot more than SRM (if you're in the market for a budget PM then you're probably not going to be a lost sale to SRM!)
then it makes little difference as you recoup the development costs over the same number of sales, just selling each person 2x as many (relatively cheap to make) black boxes.
It is curious that single sided versions are being sold at roughly half the price of dual sided. Doesn't really make sense if most of the price is recouping R&D costs and manufacturing is cheap. Probably set to meet customer expectations. Who's going to buy a budget one if it's only say 80% the cost of the full price one.
Anyway, a good PM for $399 would be great. I'd likely have one on every bike at that price (well maybe not the pub bike!)
I've been trying to decide between the Stages and P2M classic powermeters and still struggling to figure out what the general consensus is.
The choice is either the Stages 105 for £475 or the P2M with FSA Gossamer cranks for £570.
I'm leaning towards the P2M but just wanted to see if people reckon it's worth the extra £100 or so?
Stages for me has been faultless since I got it in July. I was leaning towards the P2M but in the end the price, weight, and the fact that noone can really tell you've got a PM sold me on the Stages.
Interesting to see what will happen to prices. I guess all the imminent budget PMs are going to worry the likes of Stages a lot more than SRM
True, but pricing for Stages is exaggerated in the UK. Same prices pretty much in $/EUR/£ so we are at the end of the chain of losing out. I'd be quite surprised if any of the other PM's come to the UK with properly budget prices, but then I guess this depends more on the distribution channels rather than the products itself.
Looks like [url= http://4iiii.com/product/precision/ ]4iiii[/url] have updated their website, all the options now showing, they look to have hit their price point and will ship on 10th December, wonder if they'll ship abroad, my guess is not in the first instance. I'm very interested though!
True, but pricing for Stages is exaggerated in the UK. Same prices pretty much in $/EUR/£
I assumed it was more to do with the crankset manufacturers distribution? The difference in price between stages models is pretty much the same as the difference in the cranksets. Yet the non drive side crank is near identical between 105-ultegra-DA, different asthetics/shape, but the same manufacturing process and close in weight, the money's mostly in the chainrings.
In the USA you get a chainset with the powermeter, so the pricing makes sense. I'm guessing the madison/shimano distribution agreement won't let them sell a chainset in the UK (so there's probably a [s]mountain [/s] [i]small hillock[/i] of shimano driveside cranks at stages HQ.
Allegedly you can't use any other Stages (or otherwise) LH crank with a Dura Ace 9000 chainset, so no cost savings there either. Can't see why myself. Spline pattern is the same, unless the crank thickness (and thus axle length) is different.
If the 4iiii proves reliable (DC Rainmaker was impressed) I reckon they're away. Interested they say they'll work on carbon cranks too.
If the 4iiii proves reliable (DC Rainmaker was impressed) I reckon they're away.
If this is the case, and the price ends up under £400, I'd order one today... possibly two!
If this is the case, and the price ends up under £400, I'd order one today... possibly two!
A friend is moving to the States imminently, so I'm sorted 😀
Hmm I've a friend moving back from the US soon 🙂 Though given all the grief people had with Stages when they first came out I'm tempted to wait till there's some UK support.
Wonder if this will spur Stages on to release a DIY version of their PM?
Oh and...
I'm leaning towards the P2M but just wanted to see if people reckon it's worth the extra £100 or so?
I've got the P2M and really like it. I wanted a new chainset too so that sort of evened out the price a bit against the Stages. It's a PM, it works, gives about the same readings as my PowerTap, not much more to it really. Happen to like the look of the Rotor crankset too, bit different to the usual Shimano cranks. I'm tempted to get another but may just hold on and see what happens with the 4iii.
Hadn't realised you needed a torque wrench to install Vectors, one of the things that appealed was the abilty to quickly swap them between bikes
Just swap the crank -as per Stages - HTH 😉
Happy with my Stages, but still happy with my PowerCal too for when I can't be bothered to swap crank (which is most of the time.
Or to revisit the carbon crank functionality at least.
Dare I say it looks like a pretty foolproof installation. Only thing that's not ideal is that you can't remove it to transfer to another crank, but you can't with Stages either. Probably means I need to buy a DA9000 crank for my Madone, as I don't intend keeping that forever, nor do I really want a 10 year old 7800 chainset on whatever I buy next!
Only thing that's not ideal is that you can't remove it to transfer to another crank, but you can't with Stages either.
Shame they can't sort out some solvent to remove it. I guess that's the nice thing about the Watteam, you just buy another (relatively cheap) strain gauge and swap the electronic pod thing over. Looks like that's still a fair few months away though.
Dare I say it looks like a pretty foolproof installation. Only thing that's not ideal is that you can't remove it to transfer to another crank, but you can't with Stages either. Probably means I need to buy a DA9000 crank for my Madone, as I don't intend keeping that forever, nor do I really want a 10 year old 7800 chainset on whatever I buy next!
This is the tart in me's real reason for wanting a P2M rotor 3D+ (or the tune/BOR models). It's new, it's shiny, and it won't look out of date within shimano's upgrade cycle! That's why I've currently got an FSA SL-K rather than 7800 chainset.
Shame they can't sort out some solvent to remove it. I guess that's the nice thing about the Watteam, you just buy another (relatively cheap) strain gauge and swap the electronic pod thing over. Looks like that's still a fair few months away though.
It's just epoxy, so no solvent will disolve it as it's one* long molecule. That's why you can wash away the unset glue with acetone, but not once it's polymerised.
*actualy several million/billion, but hundreds/thousands of times less than the number in conventional glue.
Shame they can't sort out some solvent to remove it. I guess that's the nice thing about the Watteam, you just buy another (relatively cheap) strain gauge and swap the electronic pod thing over. Looks like that's still a fair few months away though.
Aye, they're saying summer now, and as DCR points out the only company to have ever stuck to their production schedule was Stages who (like 4iiii) announced their product at the 11th hour. The Watteam looks good (well it doesn't, it [i]looks [/i]crap, but I like the idea), but I wonder if we'll see creeping prices and production delays.
Totally agree on the solvent though, and I'm not convinced you couldn't get something in there that would do it. I wonder if it's more to do with the damage you'd do to the surface though and how that would impact a future installation, rather than a genuine inability to remove it. If it's that reliant on 'feeling' what's happening to the crank, I imagine a load of glue residue on the back, or damage to the surface of the pod could have a marked effect.
This is the tart in me's real reason for wanting a P2M rotor 3D+ (or the tune/BOR models). It's new, it's shiny, and it won't look out of date within shimano's upgrade cycle! That's why I've currently got an FSA SL-K rather than 7800 chainset.
I know what you mean, but on the road I really like groupsets to match entirely, and I think the 9000 cranks are lovely!
It's just epoxy, so no solvent will disolve it as it's one* long molecule. That's why you can wash away the unset glue with acetone, but not once it's polymerised.
Ooo good answer. So TINAS, is there nothing that would do it?
but on the road I really like groupsets to match entirely, and I think the 9000 cranks are lovely!
Not a huge fan, but they are a vast improvement on the fugly 7900 cranks. They still look pretty awful on most things other than modern plastic bikes IMO.
Why is the power tap/hub based meter out of fashion at the moment?
Crank is no good to me, due to leg damage, so I use powertap, but I'm curious what the advantages of stages etc are? Weight, price or something else?
Ooo good answer. So TINAS, is there nothing that would do it?
There probably is, but I spec epoxy lined pipes for when the stuff in them disolves stainles steel, so not much. Most methods for removing epoxy (apart from pysicaly removing it with a hammer/knife/etc) usualy work on breaking down the bond between the epoxy and what it's bonded to, for example on wood you can soak it in acetone and it will come off, but the epoxy itself will be in one lump, obviously that doesn't work on metal as it wont absorb the acetone. There's a few epoxy specific solvents, but they're not the kind of thing you'd get in B&Q, and even then they tend to soften it by going after any unreacted leftovers in the resin rather than disolve it.
Why is the power tap/hub based meter out of fashion at the moment?
You either need several wheels (one for training, one for racing on windy days, one for crits, one for TT's, etc), or comprimise and race on slow wheels, wear out race wheels etc.
Whereas a stages you could in theory just swap the NDS crank between your bikes (as long as you have compatible cranks).
Also, since the advent of the G3 Powertaps their reliability seems to have dropped of a cliff - ask Paligap what their turnaround is for a repair at the moment!
That's a shame, as they also changed the internals to DT240. My 5 year old PowerTap has attrotious bearing life, but is actually indestructible.
Hopefully they'll get to a price point where it's not worth the hassle swapping between bikes. $399 would likely do that for me.
Is a shame about the power tap. Didn't they get brought out? I'm reluctant to use mine off the turbo now in case it needs servicing sooner!
