Might not be the right forum for this, but for continuity keeping my posts here and not on weightweenies or slowtwitch..
Got my 60 mm aero wheels from farsports, carbon aerobars have been ordered (not from aliexpress - I enjoy life), beat Rona and even got a 30 second hillsprint KOM today, so in my continued quest for marginal (yet value) aero gains I figured a skinsuit could be fun to try.
From what I hear aliexpress skinsuits and bibs are in general decent, similar to store brand quality here. Any particular "brands" to look at?
Get your coat lad. Your barred....
Um. You are thinking about wearing skinsuits, but didn’t take the advice about using TT clipons?
I’m afraid I’m starting to think you are more about looking the part than actual marginal gains.
Um. You are thinking about wearing skinsuits, but didn’t take the advice about using TT clipons?
I’m afraid I’m starting to think you are more about looking the part than actual marginal gains.
A skinsuit saves more watts than aero bars. HTH.
It’s more or less the same, and if you are serious you have both. Cheap clips are more bang for buck. HTH
Anyway, when I was chasing aero I spent 800 on a cheap Boardman tt and I’m a butt load quicker on it than an expensive carbon bike with 404s. In exactly the same kit. So buy a cheap TT bike....rather than pimp a road bike
Get your coat lad. Your barred….
🤪
Um. You are thinking about wearing skinsuits, but didn’t take the advice about using TT clipons?
Uh-um. Not doing time trials, only sprint / short interval HIIT workouts where they'd only be in the way. Otherwise I ride from A to B in traffic, TT bars no bueno. Not that they aren't appalling and generally sucks the joy out of cycling - got a pair.
Here's a fairly nice looking one, bit similar to Ale rev
So you are planning on wearing a skin suit for commuting?
TINAS has it 🙂
So you are planning on wearing a skin suit for commuting?
I don't commute but i might wear it when visiting friends to harass them.
The pads and fit of cheap AliExpress bibs are pretty bad- I have some bibs that basically had to go in the bin. They were Racmer branded, and their jerseys are good.
The fit is also small, go up one size on everything.
I have some Spexcel stuff off there and while it's not super cheap it's very good quality and looks good. The pads are also excellent. I'd recommend their stuff but the idea behind it is to get quality stuff for the same price as middle of the road stuff here, not to get a set of shorts for a tenner.
I particularly liked this part of the advert
Ive had some cheap ebay kit before, the shorts lasted a year before a seam went on the pad. But the jersey is still going strong.
Not sure how aero a cheap skinsuit is? A real one is a lot tighter than just a pair of bibs and a jersey sewn together.
Spexcel
Good tip, I can justify say £30 on this project to reach my distant and vague yet eagerly anticipated goals of freedom to sprint with crazy passion. TY @thisisnotaspoon.
They offer a "speed suit"
Not sure how aero a cheap skinsuit is? A real one is a lot tighter than just a pair of bibs and a jersey sewn together.
Good question - anyone know? Also I notice they're sometimes called speed suits on Ali.
Hear some of the speed socks on there are vgood btw https://de.aliexpress.com/item/33001126566.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&fbclid=IwAR2gnUDvr1QlWkQP51B2MGXMAxOWM9OlB8Epj54ZUjPxGWeuw4mOofSuUdw
only sprint / short interval HIIT workouts
In that case wouldn’t you be better off being totally in-aero to maximise your training without having to go fast?
In that case wouldn’t you be better off being totally in-aero to maximise your training without having to go fast?
Do pro's train like that? No. And remember I need to maximize KOM's :p
I don’t commute but i might wear it when visiting friends to harass them.
Otherwise I ride from A to B in traffic
OK, this bit sounded like commuting - which I thought you were doing mostly on Berlin's cycle paths. If you are are mostly riding in traffic I would venture to suggest the marginal gain of a skin suit would be irrelevant. Besides, if you wear something baggy you'll get more of a workout, if that's what you're after.
No offence but you are bloomin weird!
A skinsuit for KOM hunting. That's......unusual.
In that case wouldn’t you be better off being totally in-aero to maximise your training without having to go fast?
Isn't that exactly what they're used for + racing?
OK, this bit sounded like commuting – which I thought you were doing mostly on Berlin’s cycle paths. If you are are mostly riding in traffic I would venture to suggest the marginal gain of a skin suit would be irrelevant. Besides, if you wear something baggy you’ll get more of a workout, if that’s what you’re after.
50/50 off an on paths here, the skinsuit would however primarily be for KOMs / training rides.
Not doing time trials, only sprint / short interval HIIT workouts where they’d only be in the way.
If you're not racing, what's the point of going aero?
Ride in what's comfortable, try and get faster than you were yesterday.
lulz, if you want to copy how pros train then remember to include things like saddle bags. They don’t have team cars on hand all the time you know....
Have a look at Velotec. Fit is the key though. And I’m guessing this is for KOM hunting not racing? You probably know but worth saying most skin suits don’t come with pockets (or usable pockets).
Where do you plan on putting your spare tube / mini pump etc?
Have you got velotoze overshoes? What helmet are you using? (serious questions as I’m also a bit of an aero junkie)
If you’re not racing, what’s the point of going aero?
1. Get quicker from A to B
2. KOMs
3. Fast is fun
Have a look at Velotec. Fit is the key though. And I’m guessing this is for KOM hunting not racing? You probably know but worth saying most skin suits don’t come with pockets (or usable pockets).
Where do you plan on putting your spare tube / mini pump etc?
Have you got velotoze overshoes? What helmet are you using? (serious questions as I’m also a bit of an aero junkie)
Thanks! Yeah KOMs and general training use. Back pockets would be preferable and most the ali ones I've seen have them, worst case could get a saddle bag.
No overshoes - maybe a bit too marginal?
No aero helmet either although I guess that's the next step on the aero gain hierarchy, not sure I'm serious enough for it and I doubt a lot of the KOMs around here were set using then 😉
2. KOMs
Vanity, thy name is Strava.
Go faster than you did yesterday. Answers 1 and 3, but if you need some sort of virtual validation, crack on and waste your money.
Vanity, thy name is Strava.
What's wrong with competing with other people? Extra motivation to work harder.
Going faster than you did yesterday is fun, going faster than cars is really fun.
No aero helmet either although I guess that’s the next step on the aero gain hierarchy, not sure I’m serious enough for it and I doubt a lot of the KOMs around here were set using then
Or skinsuits at a guess.
After the skinsuit 😉
How about a cheap tin of body paint,that'll be aero!
Coming for your KOM!
Where do you fit the cake?
Well, if you are serious about your KOM hunting.
You have one distinctly average heavy bike which you do 95% of your riding on with baggy shorts / heavy bags to build yourself up. I find towing kids in various contraptions good for this. This bike sounds like what you should be riding for your commutting and HIIT.
Then you have a good couple of rest days, pick a day with favourable wind direction, don your aero gear (which would be a proper skinsuit, trip socks, shoe covers, pointy helmet, and of course shaved legs). Jump on your max'd out aero TT bike, and go KOM whoring.
Most of KOM's round my usual road runs are impossible on a 'normal' road bike. they are either held by guys riding in pelotons or on TT bikes. The only ones normal people can get these days are proper urban ones which its too busy/dangerous to smash through on a TT. Although, as this lockdown continues, maybe not....hmmmm….
I wouldn't bother buying a cheap speedsuit of aliexpress if you think it will make you faster. Buy it because you like the look of it.
Btw, I never went full TT skinsuit as I wanted the pockets so I have a castelli san remo speedsuit. It is very very tight.
Thanks DT,
I have a stationary Echo fan bike for doing HIIT etc. Still, why ride a slow or heavy bike or add aero resistance when you could get to the same watts going faster on a more aero bike? Don't have kids that need towing 😉
Only interested / competitive in say max 1 min sprints, most KOMs around here wasn't done with full aero gear I think at least not the short ones. Guesstimate a skinsuit could shave 1-2 seconds, but also don't have a summer bib or jersey to begin with so why not get a skinsuit with pockets instead for teh lols? I guess if it's so tight it takes a long time to put on, if it's uncomfortable or rips easily?
The only ones normal people can get these days are proper urban ones which its too busy/dangerous to smash through on a TT
Yep!
Down from £170 to £50, only XS & S left:
https://www.morvelo.com/collections/all/products/fanzine-mens-mono-ls-speedsuit
Good tip, but I'm 194 cm 90 kg :S
My experience of any sort of clothing direct from China has been dire. Crap quality and sizing way off.
Galibier.cc stuff is reasonably priced, good quality and you can swap it out if it doesn't fit. Likely cheaper in the long run.
I think it really depends, some stuff seem to be decent quality and have real sometimes long term reviews w photos. Average quality might be poor.
Galibier is a great suggestion, have winter gloves from them that have been ace and their customer support is outstanding, bit above my budget at £77 but definitely seems good value in the long run.
Quick google suggests that a skinsuit saves 20-something seconds over a 25mile TT. You need to weigh that up against how much you care about people possibly pointing and laughing at you wearing a skinsuit if you're not riding a TT or a 'cross race.
Is your training fully optimised? My guess from reading your posts is that you'd find more bang for your buck there to be honest.
If you enjoy going fast and beating people, why on earth are you going to all this trouble but not doing some proper racing?
Racing is real fun.
Quick google suggests that a skinsuit saves 20-something seconds over a 25mile TT. You need to weigh that up against how much you care about people possibly pointing and laughing at you wearing a skinsuit if you’re not riding a TT or a ‘cross race.
Is your training fully optimised? My guess from reading your posts is that you’d find more bang for your buck there to be honest.
Faster you go, higher the air resistance and the more time you save gain pr meter lowering drag, but yeah, it's mostly for laughs and I need some sort of summer bib/jersey combo anyways.
My aerobic training boils down to 10-30 min of 1-10 min interval HIIT almost daily, but calisthenics and strength training is as important so not going to commit more time to cardio nor do I think it can be optimized that much given the time constraint?
If you enjoy going fast and beating people, why on earth are you going to all this trouble but not doing some proper racing?
Sign me up for the max 3 min ones :>
Back pockets would be preferable
Most of the drag reduction is from not having big flappy pockets on the back.
FWIW a proper skinsuit (as opposed to a Chinese shorts and jersey sewn together combo), even in large sizes, looks like something a toddler would squeeze into. They really are comedically tight.
You can get aero jersesy made form the similar materials, it's a bit like a thinner, tighter woven, version of the stuff used for shorts, rather than the more normal fabrics.
e.g.
This is our clubs aero jersey (jackroo ultra).
There's no collar, the sleeves just finish rather than being folded and hemmed, and the fabric is very thin and stretchy. It's like the top half of a skinsuit, with pockets.
Sounds more like what you want, but it's not within the budget.
There are some "aero" jerseys on ali, maybe something like this?
Good warning about skinsuits, not looking to smear my whole body in baby powder before I can go ride.
I think you're slightly missing the point somewhat.
To be more aero than a standard jersey a skin suit is
1) made from a different fabric
2) much tighter
3) doesn't have a collar or hemmed cuffs
This is a skinsuit that probably saves a few watts. Note how tightly the zip stretches it when not crouched low on a bike? that's how tight they are. Also, no collar, no hemms, long sleves, so thin it's see through fabric, some fabrics have ripples sewn into them to induce turbulence over the shoulders. That's the stuff that makes skinsuits fast.
Just googled that jersey, it's still got a collar and cuffs, although it's certainly see through 😮
Considering you're wearing MTB shoes (easy to walk in), a proper skinsuit is not easy to walk in!
With carbon wheels you argued that a 60mm deep Chinese rim was probably 90% of the watt savings of a European/American made one at 3x the price, and you're probably not far off. I think the equivalent in skin suits is just get a jersey that fits. Eliminating the seam between jersey and shorts alone won't save you the 20W claimed, or the 90% of it.
An aero jersey alone might save a few watts if your existing one isn't so well fitted, but by the time you've lost a few more watts in the translation to Chinese then it's probably almost nothing. And as we're basically saying it's aero because it fits better, you could paraphrase that as "actually going to a shop and trying it on will save you more watts".
I still think if you're going to wear "something that looks like a skinsuit" in public, it may as well be bright enough to distract people from the fact it looks daft.
TBH I’ve a few of the castelli skin suits which er don’t look like a skinsuit and as they have no bibs are extremely comfortable and tbh look no different than bibs and a jersey and I think I paid around 70squid in the sales/ebay.
Interesting form of camo, making yourself more visible but hiding what your body/what you're wearing? lol.
Aero jersey sounds more like what I'm looking for and would actually keep using. OOOR
TBH I’ve a few of the castelli skin suits which er don’t look like a skinsuit and as they have no bibs are extremely comfortable and tbh look no different than bibs and a jersey and I think I paid around 70squid in the sales/ebay.
What are the con's then if any? PITA to get on/off? No pockets?