I typically use PG spokes mostly on the grounds of cheapness, but I have a lighter pair of rims to build up and I started thinking about ways to keep the whole wheelset's mass down.
I did a quick calc using interwebz weights and it seems like DB spokes and alloy niples would actually only save about 70-80g per wheel, so would it really be worth the extra cost vs PG and brass niples? Or should I be thinking "marginal gains"
I always used DB spokes, but never alloy nipples. They snap, or chemically weld to the spoke and then round off. Brass nipples for sure. PG spokes just feel cheap to me.
PG spokes are cheap, it's part of their appeal to someone like me 😉
Never used alloy nips if they're as bad as you say then I will continue not to then.
The real question is around potential weight savings, DB spokes on their own will maybe save me 50g per wheel, not actually sure that is worth much more spend on spokes TBH.
Cheers...
+1 edit: what he ^^ said, not you. 🙂
Db spokes always, the bit of extra give makes for a stronger wheel all round.
Alloy nipples, not unless they're for racing only, they crack far too quickly.
Depends on which DB spokes you look at, they're not all the same, and the weight differences can be significant. They're also stronger, which for me would be reason enough to pay the small premium.
Personally I'd always use DB spokes - Something like a Competition (2.0/1.8/2.0) for an 'all round' wheel and something like a Revolution (2.0/1.5/2.0) for a lightweight wheel.
Alu nips are ok again if lightweight is a high priority and you understand their limitations. I'd not use them unless it was a light build. They're significantly worse on factory builds IME, which taints people's experience of them.
What they said, but I wouldn't ever bother with alu nips, they are GUARANTEED to seize on in my experience (unless you live in the south of France or similar) and don't save that much weight.
Spokes...whatever is handy/on-offer etc, alloy nipples no chance.
They're also stronger,
Reasoning please.
DB spokes have a better fatigue life as they are slightly more elastic than plain gauge and take longer to work harden and snap at the bend (other factors can make either snap prematurely but that aside) db spokes will last x amount or rotations over plain guage because of this.
Alloy nipples have the same tensile strength as Nickle brass nipples but a shorter fatigue life, and if built using the right lubricants and anti seizing threadlock compounds and cleaned after use won't seize. They are better suited for race wheels over training wheels (both mtb and road) due to the shorter working life though.
Plus not all brands of db spokes and plain gauge spokes are created equally buy cheap buy twice regardless of PG or DB spokes.
Peace out.
Db give a stronger build, that's well covered on the interwebs.
Alloy nipples are not the devils work, they are a very good product it used correctly.
to be extremist race day only wheels Alloy nipples everytime. 5 day a week, every week commuter, brass-end of.
Where to you sit on that scale?
extremist race day only wheels
...that never get wet...good luck with that in the UK!
alpina db spokes are great and quite cheap (just over a tenner a wheel in silver). cyclebasket.com have a good selection.
alpina are a massive spoke manufacturer: they make spokes for mavic, zipp & bmw. underrated in this country by some...
I've used them on 10+ pairs of wheels and only had one spoke break: which might have had more to do with the packing and driving technique in the back of the car. 😕
alloy nips: cant be arsed too many horror stories.
Al if the wheels are cleaned and maintained after exposure to crap and built right in the first place there not a problem at all. Been building with alloy nips for a long time for customers and shed loads of pairs over the years and so far not a problem even mine I built some hope xc hubs on mavic 717 disc rims back in 2004 with revs with black and red nips been used and abused ow and the nips aren't seized and they have done shed loads of mayhems, dusk til dawns, and thetford winter series races plus out in all wethers in the suffolk/Norfolk grime.
Fair enough, I don't know many racers that use such a regime (and it's wetter up here...)
(and it's wetter up here...)
Your local climate is an irrelevance here unless you share a house with the OP, or are just trying to prove your own point? Oh...
The wheels on my Top Fuel were built with alu nips, not one seized in 4 years, no special care given whatsoever, used in all weather. Conversely the factory built Rovals that preceded them were crap, those that didn't seize broke. I wouldn't use them on a commuter bike. I wouldn't use them at all except on a lightweight build, but you won't die in a fireball if you do use them, and build well.
njee20 - Member
(and it's wetter up here...)Your local climate is an irrelevance here unless you share a house with the OP, or are just trying to prove your own point? Oh...
🙄
I can only comment based on my experience, it's wetter in Scotland, races are wetter, meaning corrosion more likely to be an issue.
That's irrelevant?
What njee said and points out not all are created equal. The only real special care is basic clean them and the crap off if left caked in road crap/trail muck they seize and corrode eventually it's all basic stuff.
As others have said its horses for courses alloy nips for light weight builds that use for racing on and Nickle plated brass for training and commuting.
Ps if your bike does explode into a fire ball because your using them please please please film it and stick on YouTube as it'll be epic to watch lol
comment based on my experience, it's wetter in Scotland, races are wetter, meaning corrosion more likely to be an issue.
That's irrelevant?
You've got people saying "they're not bad, if you know what you're getting into", and you're saying "you're all wrong, they're shit, they all break" - there appears to be a distinction between answering the OP's question with informed and reasoned answers and generally having a big hitter argument. Your climate and posts are more relevant to that second aim.
Wot njee20 said........
It is a bank holiday Cyn you can take a day off.
njee20 - Member
you're saying "you're all wrong, they're shit, they all break"
Where did I say that? Nowhere. Nor have I said anyone is wrong or that the answer is digital.
I've based all my comments on my experience, having worked on and built hundreds of wheels and raced my own also.
Attack the post not the poster guys! 🙄
I maintain my wheels by changing bearings when they're done.
Cleaning spoke nipples (and presumably lubing them) after each wet ride sounds like a form of insanity to me.
I had ally nips on one wheel years ago and wouldn't do it again. Brass all the way.