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Building modern day wheels with brass nipples, what lubes (if any) do you use and how/where? Also, interested in which threadlock compound, plus how you dispense - are fancy little needle bottles for the win?
I just dip the end of each spoke in a pot of grease before screwing on the (brass) nipples. Built plenty of wheels and not had any come loose yet. Had a few factory built wheels suffer from seized nipples so I'm rather paranoid about it.
Good old fashioned linseed oil for me. Lubricates when building then goes off hard to provide a light locking action apparently. Not got a huge portfolio to provide evidence, but I'm riding one pair that are 6 years old and still going strong.
Copper anti-seize works for me! I'm not sure how much lubrication it actually provides but I've had no problems tensioning spokes to the rim manufacturer's recommended maximum, so not sure how much more lubrication the threads would actually need.
I'd been doing this for years anyway but more relevant recently did it on an aluminium nipple build (Sapim nipples, which are apparently coated to reduce corrosion anyway). Happy to confirm all nipples still easily adjusted a year later.
I was taught, and experience bears it out, that threadlocking nipples isn't really necessary if they're tensioned correctly in the first place, but I've never built heavy duty touring or DH wheelsets. In fact, the guy who taught me just sprayed threads and nipples with GT85 before assembly!
Any light oil. Usually engine oil.
Why would you use threadlock?
ZX1
I didn't have any linseed oil when I built my first set, so used olive oil instead. Those were/still are fine, so I've used it on every other set since.
i've used 3-in-1 or engine oil. I use copper grease with alloy nips.
Just re-rimmed a wheel and used DT swiss ultra lights ( so very thin) and everyone undid after 7 years of winter riding and re used the spokes and nipples . Used to do it when using alloy nipples, but decent brass ones should be fine to do dry. Not had any issues personally.
A bottle cap of 3-in-1 here too.
Cotton wool bud used to 'oil' the insides of the rim holes and (probably for no good reason) the holes in the hub. Then dip the spoke end as I use them.
Depends on many things, if the wheels aren't ridden in the wet then very different to winter riding on salted roads.
Not tried linseed oil but it makes sense NDS.
Why would you use threadlock?
To stop NDS spokes loosening.
Spokes should not loosen if they're suitably tensioned.
i've learned this the hard way by building some really bad wheels the first few times out.
The last 2 sets of wheels I built have had DT Swiss squorx ally nipples which apparently have some kind of locker already in them. It was suggest I dunk the end of each spoke into a light oil / lube before assembling so that’s what I did (muc off wet chain lube - as I have no other use for it as it makes chains absolutely filthy in short time).
Last I checked nothing had seized and the wheels were still true. Guess a few more years will see how that goes - with alloy nips being the main concern.
Can't say I'm a "wheelbuilder", just some knobber, but I've done 10 pairs now I think without any issues (including the ones I use for dh days, the mega etc so pretty hard use). I just use engine oil. Haven't had any issues with loosening ever, and no issues with seizing as yet, touch wood. Spoke tension alone should prevent unwinding is my understanding.
I suppose the real test for seizing is to use ally nipples, maybe that's where you'd see an advantage over normal oil? But rather than wondering what the right product is for that, I just don't use the horrible things.
(muc off wet chain lube – as I have no other use for it as it makes chains absolutely filthy in short time)
Haha. I use the muc-off dry for the same reason - its rubbish as a chain lube, but it does go in running and then stiffen up like linseed.
I know there's logic behind the 'if the spokes are tensioned correctly they won't come loose' argument, but plenty of people smash the poo out of their wheels. Some rims like Flow MK3 and Spank rims are vertically pretty compliant which will increase the chances of nipples unwinding.
So I use Wheelsmith Spoke Prep on the threads, and grease at the interface of the nipple head and nipple hole in the rim to help with bringing the spokes up to tension as it reduces friction, and also helps with preventing seizing in the longer term. Some use Tri-flow or whatever in that gap as they are bringing the wheel up to tension. This is quicker but I find that it slow migrates out of the rim and can leave wet looking rings around the nipples.
Spokes should not loosen if they’re suitably tensioned
As above this may have worked for you but it's not always so simple, as those building for a living have experienced.
I use prolink in an oil pen when the wheel is loosely built, drip onto the spoke letting it run into the nipple and a drop on the nipple around the rim eyelet then give it a spin letting the centrifugal force cover all the threads, its a nice thin lube with metal friction reducer formula. Mass production wheel building machines ive worked with have nipples soaked in oil before loading but thats a bit messy when hand building.
Another vote for linseed oil. Helps when building and prevents (well not always) seizing over time, whilst staying loose enough to allow wheel truing.
I build them dry then drop a few drops of muc off chain oil from the inside of the rim onto the nipple/spoke.
Been doing it this way for years on mtb's, unicycle wheels and trials wheels (and they take far more hammer than any others) and never had a problem
mtb’s, unicycle wheels and trials wheels (and they take far more hammer than any others)
In one sense they do, but the heavier dishing in road wheels can make a difference.
Bit of light oil on spoke holes when building only. Nothing on spoke thread. I would never, ever use alloy nipples they are soft and seem to fuse to spokes making future adjustment impossible.
Nothing on the threads, a little ring lube on the nipple head/rim interface to ease tensioning.
Little bit of chain lube on the spoke thread so the nipple tightens rather than binding.
No threadlock as you need to be able to adjust after spokes have been destressed, and I want to be able to tweak them in the future if I need to.
I used nipple washers on the last wheelset I built, but that was only really as it was a non eyeletted rim.
Not built loads of wheels, but the ones that I have built have handled multiple uplift days at rocky places like antur without an issue.
Oh yeah, and 3 cross, j bend, double butted and brass nipples for everything 😉
Oh yeah, and 3 cross, j bend, double butted and brass nipples for everything
True until:
a) you build with funky wheel/hub sizes or spoke counts
b) you realise how cool radial wheels look (on rim brake bikes)
😉
Actually, I’ve also used coloured aluminium nipples in carefully chosen places, but I’m a sucker for aesthetics (see point b, and pending Jo turning up and dissing one or more of my bikes).
I’ve always just used whatever Teflon chain lube is kicking around.
I would never, ever use alloy nipples they are soft and seem to fuse to spokes making future adjustment impossible
I think the fear of alloy nipples is a bit dated now, modern alloy nipples (e.g. Sapim) are apparently made of a harder alloy and anodised such that they offer a degree of protection against seizing. Plus, copper anti-seize exists for a reason 🙂
My one experience building with them has been positive so far, wheels are in good nick a year later after a lot of muddy, wet and rocky gravel/CX abuse, and nipples still spin freely (albeit I've not had to adjust them much, think I tweaked the dish of the wheel 9 months in after re-spacing rear hub).
I've always oiled and not used threadlock (but not doing it for a living).
Have had one well regarded local wheelbuilder (made thousands of wheels and won bike mag "tests") slag another's work because they had used threadlock.
Every bottle of threadlock we've got at work says to clean and degrease the threads before use (Loctite make the 7063 cleaner specifically for this). So is it actually doing anything with oiled threads or just placebo? Glue and lube usually don't go together.
I used to use linseed oil, now I use aluminium slip as I build with alu nipples mostly. Works for me.
It's most important to use something that lubes the threads well while you're building - avoiding spoke wind-up is key to a permanently true wheel. If you have any residual wind up in a wheel it's quite likely to unwind at the nipple resulting in a bent wheel.
Threadlock is a bit old school now - Wheelsmith popularised it in the past as old alu rims were quite flexible in a vertical plane, allowing the spokes to become detensioned easily, which in turn meant the nips could unwind resulting in a bent wheel. With modern rims and well tensioned spokes this seems to be a thing of the past, so I don't worry about threadlock any more.
The two sets that I've built, I just dipped the tread in some lithium grease and wiped off the excess with a rag. Not had any issues at all.
nowadays I only build occasionally, but it depends on what the rim is and what nipples I'm using.
non eyletted rims get a dab of grease inside the rim hole (no laughing at the back)
eyletted rims tend not to get any lubrication, unless used with alloy nipples.
Alloy nipples get copper grease on the spoke thread
Brass nipples gets either light oil or whatever grease i have to hand on the spoke thread.
if I'm building light wheels, say Dt revs and a soft rim like stans, I'll finish the build post tension, let them sit overnight, reload (stress) them and then put a dab of thread lock on each nipple head.
probably doesn't need it, but the spokes can be a bit more giving and combined with a softer rim I like to be double sure.
Not built any light ones without doing that, so it's purely my own paranoia.
You can get semi-locking nipples like Alpina and DT Swiss Pro Loc. I know the Alpina have something like a nyloc insert
True until:
a) you build with funky wheel/hub sizes or spoke counts
b) you realise how cool radial wheels look (on rim brake bikes)😉
Actually, I’ve also used coloured aluminium nipples in carefully chosen places, but I’m a sucker for aesthetics
Definitely 😜 I want to try some fun builds
Still plenty of radially compliant rims about:
https://spank-ind.com/apps/help-center#hc-radially-compliant-rims-wheel-building-requirements
https://www.weareonecomposites.com/shop/product/rim-only-519
All of the above for example instruct people to use either some sort of 'spoke prep' or locking nipples. Also when one builds wheels 40 minutes from Whistler Bike Park, one quickly learns that all rims can be radially compliant 😉
Still plenty of radially compliant rims about:
https://spank-ind.com/apps/help-center#hc-radially-compliant-rims-wheel-building-requirements
https://www.weareonecomposites.com/shop/product/rim-only-519
All of the above for example instruct people to use either some sort of ‘spoke prep’ or locking nipples. Also when one builds wheels 40 minutes from Whistler Bike Park, one quickly learns that all rims can be radially compliant 😉
Well, yes, but quite why you'd choose to build with a rim that gives you a couple of mm 'travel' when you've got a 150mm+ travel front+rear and a 2.4" tyre I don't know.
More + double butted spokes (which stretch more therefore less likely to lose tension) is surely the better answer to any issues - regardless of spoke prep 'twanging' spokes can't be good for rim beds.
Ultimately though the only harm thread lock can do is to make re-trueing more difficult I guess, as long as it only takes hold once you've built the wheel.
walleater
Free MemberI know there’s logic behind the ‘if the spokes are tensioned correctly they won’t come loose’ argument, but plenty of people smash the poo out of their wheels. Some rims like Flow MK3 and Spank rims are vertically pretty compliant which will increase the chances of nipples unwinding.
Nobiody who smashes the poo out of their wheels should be doing it with Flow Mk3s or many of the Spank options though. Seems like a rim fitness for purpose thing maybe?
DT Swiss squorx...It was suggest I dunk the end of each spoke into a light oil / lube before assembling so that’s what I did
DT's proloc nipples say specifically not to use any thread lube.
I lithium grease nipple to washer interface though..PHR on DT rims, Sapim/Newmen MG on Stans rims, Sapim MS on other non-flat rim beds.
I'm probably only doing half a dozen wheels a year though so certainly not a pro