My Vitus Shimano E8000 MTB has died after nearly four years. Needless to say neither Vitus nor Madison are interested in any out of warranty claim. So, the big question is, do I spend not far short of a grand for a new motor or do I sell the decent parts?
Even though there are good forks, brakes etc I don't think the second hand value will come to that much. Buying a new motor will at least get me riding cheaper than a new Ebike but the battery will probably need replacing soon, another £500.
Aaargh, I can't decide, any advice appreciated
I'd normally suggest a new bike, but thats not always thew best route to take, as these things are damned expensive for an entire bike. So maybe.opt for a new motor. You are comfy on this bike, you know it backwards. A few frame/bike might not fit as well due to muscle memory. But if you fit a new motor, its like you've got a brand new bike, but one that fits like a glove.
Sure its a lot of money, but replacing things like a fork is also a hefty bill.
Build a funeral pyre and offer it to the gods of self-propulsion.
Remove the motor and use it as on-board storage and ride it like a non-ebike...(or an Amish bike as a mate calls them)?
What did you think was going to happen four years ago when you spunked £4k on your mobility scooter? Just chuck it in the landfill skip and buy another one. It's what the 'cycling' industry would want you to do.
I reckon just get a new motor for it if you still like it. New ebikes cost a fortune.
Do you think it'll get to a stage like car alternator refurbs?
Repair, reduce, reuse, recycle.
I’d get the motor refurbed. Electric motors aren’t exactly complex things full of parts that wear out like internal combustion engines and drivetrains. The coils and magnets should work indefinitely. There are reduction gears, drive belts and bearings that wear out. And control electronics that can go haywire. None of the wear items should be expensive to repair.
Good rep for repairs on Shimano
Interesting. Performanceline Bearings won't work on them any more because they are subject to random electrical failures and Shimano won't sell the sensors.
To the OP; if it can be repaired, that's what I'd do. When you say it's died, do you have any idea what the actual failure is?
Electric motors aren’t exactly complex things
It's just as likely to be the driver which on aa brushless motor is non trivial, but yeah repair. It's pretty disgusting not to on a bike that's only 4 years old.
What did you think was going to happen four years ago when you spunked £4k on your mobility scooter? Just chuck it in the landfill skip and buy another one. It’s what the ‘cycling’ industry would want you to do.
🤣, Made me laugh.
If it was mine is be trying to fix the motor, somehow.
If it's died with an EO10 error it's not repairable, Shimano and Sram are crap at making spare parta available
Yeah , tried all the mentioned repairers and they can't do anything with EO10 and yes electric motors are fairly old tech really but Shimano have made sure the software makes DIY impossible.
I of course have normal bikes but I am 73 and the distance I can get on them seems to grow less every year!
I think I will have to bite on the bullet and hand over a wad of cash to make sure I can keep pedalling til I'm at least 80.
reuse, recycle.
I see what you did there.
@FOG im no ebike expeet but is there a way to check the health of your battery? Will something tell you the number of charge cycles or capacity left?
If the battwry is good and healthy then i think new motor will get you out and having fun again!
Ian
You need to bury it under the light of a waxing gibbous moon. Then cover the burial site in putoline, strip naked and liberally spray yourself with GT85 whilst singing I want to ride my bicycle and shaking a Pringles container that’s been filled with a new set of bearings. A week later the bike will rise from the grave and work once more.
If I got a £1k service bill for a £4k car every few years that was otherwise solid and that I used regularly then I'd probably think that was ok. Seems to me an ebike if the rest of it isn't ruined and you like it is probably the same principle.
I hope the car model on motor repairs is better.
At £1k every four years it doesn't seem that bad if it enables you to do the kind of riding you want to do.
What does that work out at? about a four quid a week.
How much does a pint cost these days?
Four quid a week? I'd check your maths, you're off by around a factor of five!
£1000/4 years
£250/1 year
£4.80/ week?
Nice edit there squirrel.
The 4 quid a week was a guestimate.
Point being it's still not a massive amount when you compare to the price of everything these days.
Or a non-ebike.
£0/4y
£0/y
£0/w
As a Scotsman, this makes me much happier.
This whole thread makes me sad. No normal bike costing £2+k would be considered disposable or beyond economic repair after 4y unless it had been crashed.
Maybe this is the subject for another thread but given the OP said this.
I of course have normal bikes but I am 73 and the distance I can get on them seems to grow less every year!
How much would you pay per week to get back some of your youth and be able to keep doing what you love?
If it’s died with an EO10 error it’s not repairable
In my experience e010 errors are not always the motor - wiring and connectors often the issue. Not specific to anyone here but if you get e010 errors check all your cabling for any little nicks/splits and clean up the connectors before refitting. Even the slightest nick for example a disk slicing a little bit in a sensor cable exposing the wire will throw an e010 at random.
I am surprised somebody with more money than me hasn't sued Shimano under the 'fit for purpose' provision of consumer protection legislation. Even if the manufacturer sets a two year warranty period, surely that doesn't negate your wider consumer rights?
If I got a £1k service bill for a £4k car every few years that was otherwise solid and that I used regularly then I’d probably think that was ok.
The bike's not worth £4k now though, even if a replacement might cost more.
However, if there hadn't been any other exceptional costs so far, I'd be tempted to agree with you. You probably couldn't replace the bike for £1k (minus the removeable, saleable parts for proper bikeonomics obvs).
What did you think was going to happen four years ago when you spunked £4k on your mobility scooter? Just chuck it in the landfill skip and buy another one. It’s what the ‘cycling’ industry would want you to do.
You seem nice.
Is this any use, Dave is local to me (Calderdale) and does seem to know his way round an ebike.
Four quid a week? I’d check your maths, you’re off by around a factor of five!
Somebody definitely needs to check thier maths
I am surprised somebody with more money than me hasn’t sued Shimano under the ‘fit for purpose’ provision of consumer protection legislation. Even if the manufacturer sets a two year warranty period, surely that doesn’t negate your wider consumer rights?
I think that’s right. It would be hard to argue that 4 years is a reasonable lifespan.
It’s also worth considering that I’m sure Shimano would like eBikes to be seen as the ‘green’ option. Chucking something away after a couple of thousand km is pretty wasteful. Otherwise I can already imagine the exposé article in in the Independent a few years from now documenting the landfill sites full of eBikes. There needs to be better support to allow people to mend these things.
Four quid a week? I’d check your maths, you’re off by around a factor of five!
It was a factor of ten before his edit.
Are Shimano the only eeb motor manufacturer whose products are not officially serviceable?
I know they've taken a bit of flack for these units. Will EP8 owners find themselves in the same position in future?
Out of interest what data is available? Does Shimano (and others) published their error codes do they offer diagnostic software? Is there a crippled free version and a more expensive pay for options? Any other service information published?
What about other manufacturers?
What did you think was going to happen four years ago when you spunked £4k on your mobility scooter? Just chuck it in the landfill skip and buy another one. It’s what the ‘cycling’ industry would want you to do.
I mean, this could have been put more tactfully, but he has a point.
They do but the e010 error is one of the more useless ones. It tells you exactly nothing about the fault. However as I mentioned sensor errors are a common one. Speed sensors are reasonably easily sourced (official RRP is £35) and always where I would start.
You'd hope whoever you bought it from would offer to do at least that basic level of diagnostics / testing before you resorting to binning it and buying a new one. Again, not necessarily answering the question from the OP.
Well, OP might have reasonably expected that the motor would be repairable/serviceable?
I'm hoping that my next eeber will have a Polini motor.
They're fully serviceable and all parts are apparently available.
They even encourage end user maintenance on them.
Currently on a Brose which is servicable by specialist places.
I would never consider anything with the Shimano motor.
Shame as they're fitted to some otherwise nice bikes.
"I am surprised somebody with more money than me hasn’t sued Shimano under the ‘fit for purpose’ provision of consumer protection legislation. Even if the manufacturer sets a two year warranty period, surely that doesn’t negate your wider consumer rights?"
Absolutely. I think some pressure needs to be put on the industry about this. I'd like to see any magazine/website that covers ebikes step up and do some actual investigative journalism. Is this behaviour from Shimano not in contravention of EU law? Maybe UK law too? I certainly wouldn't buy a Shimano ebike knowing this and will be sure to tell anyone asking for ebike advice to avoid them.
Dave is local to me (Calderdale) and does seem to know his way round an ebike.
Spolier alert: refreshing to see someone admit that, despite their efforts, they couldn't fix the damn thing.
Not sure whether that reflects well on the kit or his skills mind.
Shimano can’t even supply parts for their brakes (for over 10 years)so I can’t see them getting their arses in gear and supplying parts for an eeb.
It’s terrible service and one of the reasons I’ll steer clear of their motors.
Hopefully the Op can get it back up and running. Good luck
“I am surprised somebody with more money than me hasn’t sued Shimano under the ‘fit for purpose’ provision of consumer protection legislation. Even if the manufacturer sets a two year warranty period, surely that doesn’t negate your wider consumer rights?”
Absolutely. I think some pressure needs to be put on the industry about this. I’d like to see any magazine/website that covers ebikes step up and do some actual investigative journalism. Is this behaviour from Shimano not in contravention of EU law? Maybe UK law too? I certainly wouldn’t buy a Shimano ebike knowing this and will be sure to tell anyone asking for ebike advice to avoid them.
The manufacturer doesn't set a 2 year warranty, that's defined by statutory rights so everything has a 2 year period of warranty. A manufacturer's guarantee can go beyond that but can't be any less.
Within that 2 year period, after the first 6 months a manufacturing or materials fault has to be found or shown, it's not assumed or for them to show it's abuse etc.
So while I agree that 4 years for an e-bike isn't great it's not a CRA point. What it should be is part of the recent change in FMCG electronics regs where manufacturers have an obligation to provide parts for 7-10 yrs (not sure exactly) after a product has been discontinued. All aimed at avoiding landfill for the sake of small parts. Look up the 'right to repair' law. It came into force last year but afaik e-bikes aren't within the scope. But I'd say the gist of it should be followed by e-bike and motor brands.
Whaaaaat. I can't believe this - the biking world has been telling everyone that ebikes are the saviour of the planet.
Now it seems a 4 year old bike may be uneconomic to repair or half the bits obsolete, and another new one may have to be manufactured and sold 🤔
Look up the ‘right to repair’ law. It came into force last year but afaik e-bikes aren’t within the scope. But I’d say the gist of it should be followed by e-bike and motor brands.
There seemed to be a consensus before the Covid boom that eeb manufacturers were going above and beyond warranty conditions to replace borked motors, in an effort to mitigate the woeful reliability of the things.
It seems that largesse doesn't now extend to a 4-year-old eeb from CRC/Wiggle, who are usually have great CS and give the customer the benefit of the doubt - but you can kind-of see their side of this one.
So yes, eeb bike & motor brands should be taking more active steps to support customers and stop their products getting a reputation as lemons, if only out of self-interest. Did they take their eye off this ball when the things were selling like hotcakes?
I'm only still mildly eeb-curious, but I'd certainly be minded to swerve Shimano motors now I'm aware of their "tough shit" approach to this kind of issue.
So while I agree that 4 years for an e-bike isn’t great it’s not a CRA point.
To add to this, CRA does say you have 6 years from purchase date to claim that there was a fault with materials or manufacturing. So I may be wrong saying it's not a CRA point. After 6 months it's for you to show how/why though so it may not be easy.
The 2 years period is minimum EU warranty period - CRA (ie statutory rights) in UK makes it 6.
