[Closed] What is the point of Ti?

Wouldnt bother with changing any bolts for Ti bolts personally, too expenive, next to nothing in terms of weight saving and Ti bolts sheer/round of to easily.

Thought this Thread was going to be about Ti Frames, thats a whole different story,

The frames have a nice ride quality and don't need painting.

Bolts are a bit daft IMO.

If your building kit to go to the bottom of the ocean it's ace. Strong, relatively light, corrosion resistant and it looks pimp. We get through tonnes of it a year at work.

Sometimes they save whole [i]grams [/i]

(to give a wee comparison, a 20mm M6 socket cap bolt in steel, which is pretty common fitment on pushbikes, is about 6.2 grams. The ti equivalent is 3 grams. So if you do, frinstance, all 8 brake caliper mounting bolt (assuming post mount + adaptor) you save a mighty 25.6 grams but you'll have spent between £20 and £40 depending on quality and source.

Some ti bolts are crap unfortunately. But, on the plus side they're pretty and they don't rust, and you can generallly transfer them from bike to bike. My mmmbop has a few, most of which came out of a GSXR motorbike I scrapped a few years back, since then they've been in my own motorbike, my Carrera, my Scandal, my Soul and now the Bop so they're doing some mileage at least.

Thought this Thread was going to be about Ti Frames, thats a whole different story,

It was about both really.....just Ti in General.

Although I was wondering about Ti bolts/fasteners as well, because plenty of people do actually buy them. I thought they were expensive when I had a browse around and that got me thinking as to whether there was any advantage of having them? i.e. I know they are lighter, but are they stronger etc.?

Put it this way, if they were the same cost as standard ones, would you buy them instead?

ah yes but if you use alloy bolts or carbon screws you can save even more weight so it's not a true weight weenie choice just bragging rights.

Ti frames are lovely but too heavy for my liking....and I change frames too often for the longevity to be of any benefit for me.

And it's rather environmentally damaging to extract and process

You can tell everyone you can afford a Ti frame.

Ti bolts can make sense in terms of corrosion resistance and for bolting carbon parts (normal steel and aluminium can react).

The weight savings are tiny but I would rather people used titanium instead of aluminium bolts.

tazzymtb - Member

"ah yes but if you use alloy bolts or carbon screws you can save even more weight so it's not a true weight weenie choice just bragging rights."

Best of luck using those in strength-dependant locations though.

Ti frames and then steel are IMHO the best choice for hardtails. I have 2 Litespeed frames and can ride either all day without any bother at all. They flex just enough to take all the jarring out of the terrain.

Plus one of my frames is 13 years old and still rides as new, even after two hardcore trips to the Alps. I can't see it breaking or fatiguing any time soon.

Aluminium is the most unforgiving material. Still got my 1998 Kona Kula aluminium but its not that to nice to ride as too harsh.

Carbon nice but just as expensive as Ti with a fraction of the longevity.

All this IMHO 😛

Hey Jam bo, do you build submersibles? If it's anything you can talk about, I'd be all ears to hear more - am at the moment reading everything I can find on [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Piccard ]Jacques Picard[/url]!

Ive got a Litespeed HT which is a nice ride but if Im honest Im not sold on the whole "ti" thing.. Lovely bike but Im not sure its all its cracked up to be. Very tempted by that Santa Cruz carbon 29er HT 😳

Markie - not submersibles, we do make a fair bit of kit that goes on them though. Building a unit to go to the bottom of the marianas trench at the moment.

No point what so ever IMHO, its just expensive steel, yes certainatly lighter but id rather drag and extra 2LB up the hill than pay the extra grand for the frame, at the end of the day who smiles going uphills and coming down hills a little weight is better

I like going up! Sometimes more than the downs.

mrlebowski - Member

I like going up! Sometimes more than the downs.

NUTTER! 😯

NUTTER!

You're not the first to say it..

Ah,climbing on a nice ti hartail is much more fun than the same climb on a steel hardtail,I like climbing too !

I'd love a Duster Ti.

Aluminium is the most unforgiving material. Still got my 1998 Kona Kula aluminium but its not that to nice to ride as too harsh

I wont dispute that Alu is a stiffer material, but I think comfort often comes down to frame style. My Boardman Team is miles more comfortable than my previous Alu bike - it has noticeable give through the feet. It's not a hard-riding bike, but I'm not a hard riding rider.

Saying that, my friend's VN Zion (Ti) feels so sprightly to pedal. When you pedal, it sort-of gives and then gives back and you surge forward. In a pleasing way it feels alive. My other friend's P7 (Tange?) is sturdier, but gives in a similar way. So there is something in these materials.

If you saw me riding my Ti456 around W2 today, you wouldn't be asking of the advantages... you'd just say you wanted one. HTH

Swisstonyswiss and all those who say carbon doesnt last - do you have ANY proof of this because I have lots of proof that says the opposite.

Not going to get into a debate on it but you really need to understand carbon fibre.

There is composite aircraft components dating back 40+ years that are still in service and the materials and understanding have moved on lightyears since then and no aircraft component has an easy life or it wouldnt be there as weight saving is everything and only bits that need to be there are on an aircraft.

Buzz: aluminium is the least stiff material. But as it is also low strength and has no fatigue limit it needs to be overbuilt which results in a stiff and unforgiving frame.

Steel has a modulus of 200GPa - stiffer than any other frame material. Ti is lower but about the same strength hence you can make a frame with more compliance out of titanium.

Of course tube diameter also plays a huge roll which is why steel frames have thinner tubes which gives them good flexibility but with Ti you can use a larger tube diameter for the same stiffness which gives better torsional stiffness.

I only have a carbon fibre frame to compare to my Ti frame so probably not qualified to comment but my Ti frame has less gears and suspension.

Does that help?

aluminium is the least stiff material. But as it is also low strength and has no fatigue limit it needs to be overbuilt which results in a stiff and unforgiving frame

Ah. I guess mine is about to snap then, because it feel quite forgiving 🙂

Ti has a more lively feel.
My bike feels sprightly when climbing (yes, I also like going up hills) even with pretty heavy tyres and wheels.
It also looks almost brand new every time I clean the filth off it.
I've never regretted spending the extra cash over steel...but I think Ti bolts are daft.

Slightley off topic but responding to a comment higher up the page, Just waiting for my new Reagley Troof ( alloy ) frame to arrive, i know alloy has zero give and flex but im hoping with the 160mm air fork and tubless tyres and high volume 2.4 Maxxis Ardent tyres i will be ok to run 15psi and the ride should be alot more forgiving than running a super lightweight 100mm travel 40 - 50 psi 1.9 tyres
Always had steel frames before on my HTs

What is the point of forums?

I run RQ 2.4s at 20psi on my 456C and it works very well. Not convinced you can feel the frame given how much give there is in a set of tyres.

Last year I swapped my steel Inbred frame (pre-456) for an identical TI version - built up using all the same parts. There's a steep little climb near my house that was always a granny ring gradient that I cleared in the middle ring first time I rode it on the Tinbred. That might be down to the lighter weight or the placebo effect of a nicer frame, but I'm not sure I care either way 🙂

It only cost me £350 off STW classifieds, so I was a v happy bunny!