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IMO there’s not much point getting a heavy 140 travel bike that uses the same forks supplied with 160+ travel bikes
To a point, but most 160+ mm bikes are running Zeb/38’s now, hefty tyres & in quite a lot of cases DH shocks too. There was a recent article on Pinkbike of the weight of racers bikes & they were all over 16kg & up to 19 in some cases, which is fine for racing big mountain enduro stuff, but screw that for every day riding.
If you are building a 16kg 140mm travel bike, I would suggest you might be doing something wrong, or you live in a place where brutal trails & absolute reliability are number one priorities.
Enduro bikes are very much one trick ponies now & IME it’s less to do with the weight & more to do with the uncompromising geometry.
I think if I was going for the one bike solution, it would be a modern trail bike, as they are considerably more versatile, more fun more of the time & 99% of the time as fast or faster than a big bike. My middle bike (Druid V2) which between that & my Tallboy I spend most of my time on, is about 14kg & I’m still yet to ride anything on it & wish I was on the big bike.
I would however, pick weight over something like a Stumpy Evo & their reputation for cracking. The downtube is frighteningly thin (almost as thin as the frame protector they put on them).
Enduro bikes are very much one trick ponies now & IME it’s less to do with the weight & more to do with the uncompromising geometry.
One of the best features of the Stumpjumper Evo, IME, is the ability to alter the geometry from uncompromised downhill, right through to reasonable trail.
I think if I was going for the one bike solution, it would be a modern trail bike, as they are considerably more versatile, more fun more of the time
Generally agree with that: something around 140mm travel with decent geometry is a great all-rounder. I'd hoped the Highlander v1 140mm I bought would split the difference between my shorter-travel trail bike and my 160mm Geometron - it did, but the sizing hasn't worked for me (even their XL felt too short/cramped for me). Had an eye on future combining my two FSers into one, leaving headroom for a big-travel ebike for winch n plummet days.
& 99% of the time as fast or faster than a big bike.
But don't fully agree with that. Rode my trail bike last week then my Geometron this week on the same trails - my big bike is definitely quicker much more that 1% of the time! It's more the ease it handles stuff that my trail bike is pushed towards the limit on. All about the compromise though.
Ref Stumpjumper Evo - can you adjust geometry whilst riding? That was what attracted me to the Strive.
One of the best features of the Stumpjumper Evo, IME, is the ability to alter the geometry from uncompromised downhill, right through to reasonable trail.
In theory, yes, in practice I don’t think they quite got it right, as some of the settings were too compromised (yes I did own one a few years ago). I still put that bike down as one of the most frustrating bikes I had owned, as it was so nearly the one, only to be let down by that utterly ridiculous shock ruining clevis mount & the paper thin downtube.
But don’t fully agree with that.
I think a lot of people get blinded by the tough bits on a trail & overlook how much quicker trail bikes are on the rest of it in most cases. I know where sections of trail I am faster on which bike, but overall, the little bike mostly wins out (S. Wales off piste style riding). it just goes to show that you can turn up to something like an EWS these days & still win on a small, or relatively short travel trail bike though, thats how good bikes have become.
Banshee Titan (155mm) or Banshee Prime (135mm)?
Both punch above their travel number and like a longer fork.
I have a Prime and it's good for all day pedalfests through to bike park laps.
Canyon Spectral could be another contender?
Good value, mullet flip chip, downtube storage and geometry looks decent.
140/150 travel will be fine for the TMB and most UK riding.
I kind-of agree with HobNob these mid-travel bikes are often fastest most of the time. And UK "off-piste" trails rarely require big travel so much as slack angles.
Ref Stumpjumper Evo – can you adjust geometry whilst riding? That was what attracted me to the Strive.
No. It needs flip chips flipped or the fork dropped out to turn the headset cups around.
I think a lot of people get blinded by the tough bits on a trail & overlook how much quicker trail bikes are on the rest of it in most cases. I know where sections of trail I am faster on which bike, but overall, the little bike mostly wins out (S. Wales off piste style riding)
Not a brag, because I'm still a bit rubbish/nervous on a lot of it, but getting there - the steepest/nadgeryiest stuff I've ridden recently has been on my slack(ish) 150mm forked 29'er HT.
Strava times aren't far off matching my FS times on DH sections too
Transition Sentinel V2 is in the same kind of ballpark – it’s what I’ve got.
Can't remember if Transition were on the Tweedlove list (and now the list has gone because bookings are closed) but hopefully they are and I'll be able to take a look at one.
140/150 travel will be fine for the TMB and most UK riding.
I kind-of agree with HobNob these mid-travel bikes are often fastest most of the time. And UK “off-piste” trails rarely require big travel so much as slack angles.
I reckon my Bird 130/150 will be fine too. It’s comfortable, pedals pretty well, is slack enough (65° on paper but with the longer fork 64.5 ish?)
And I’ve just got it out the garage to put in the van, it makes me smile whenever I even look at it 🙂
Maybe all I really want is a coil for fast descending & some Hope brakes for a bit of bling 🤔
At the time I didn’t want to go up to a 29er but if I had the Aether 9 already I probably wouldn’t even be thinking about a new bike.
And then this brings me back around to looking at the older AM9 (in Raw obviously) and adding an angleset to slacken it a bit. Which would be a whole lot cheaper than any of the other options… 🤣
There's quite some gap between a 130 27.5" and a 160 29er. Could well end up battered in the Alps on it, I read it's demanding enough even when you've got the right bike. You also mentioned carrying up mountains, personally I wouldn't want to be coming down without a 29er front.
@B&B, the thing is, the alps are very big. If you're bashing out runs of pleney or something then there's no substitute for bigness to soak up high speed roughness and a million braking bumps, but every sort of riding exists there, you could be doing ancient cattle tracks in saint foye, or relatively lightly worn bike park in les 2 alpes, or mega-innerleithen at la thule (or mega-dirtfarm at Pila in knee-deep powder dust...). Varies literally as much as the whole UK. So that plays a big part too.
phil5556
Full MemberAnd then this brings me back around to looking at the older AM9 (in Raw obviously) and adding an angleset to slacken it a bit. Which would be a whole lot cheaper than any of the other options…
The AM9 takes an angleset so well btw, you lose a tiny amount of techy climbing ability and you've got to be slightly more careful in slow stumbly turns, but it's better all the rest of the time. I've never heard anyone say they'd go back, I certainly won't. It even looks better.
personally I wouldn’t want to be coming down without a 29er front.
I’ve been to the alps a few times, the biggest bike I’ve ever taken is my 130/150 Aether 7. There’s been a few times when I probably would’ve been quicker on something else but I’ve still had fun.
I’ve done a bit of a mix of riding like Northwind says. I like a bike park but not for a whole week (and I can’t jump, so that’s a bit limiting at times 🤣)
The AM9 takes an angleset so well btw,
Apart from the slacker seat angle, with an angleset it puts it pretty close to the Carbon AM geo (-10mm rear travel).
Which incidentally I had a go on at the weekend, it’s a lovely bike, instantly comfortable and was nicely nimble compared to the A9. I’d get it with a coil because I want to try one and supposedly should make the back more supple. If they made it in metal I would buy it straight away and it is on the short list. I rode it back to back with the Aeris 9 which did feel a bit too much although I went into the demo with that thought so it might have biased my judgement a bit.
The Grurple colour looks better in real life, I’d probably get a black one though.
My wife has just bought one.
I rode the Highlander too which I also loved. The back end felt lovely and I think I could feel the suspension working more than on anything else I’ve ever ridden. How much that was down to the Öhlins shock or the high pivot I don’t know but I definitely got that pushing the bike into corners feeling.
It felt a fair bit heavier than the Bird but did have a 2.6 tyre on the back.
The 65° head angle sounds a bit steep so that is against it although it felt great I didn’t ride anything particularly steep. The price is also a sticking point.
It also looks lovely.
If an AM9 with an angleset is going to do everything you need, why not give it a go.
Depends how focused you are on light weight, fancy suspension or having the latest thing.
My "new" bike was £500 for a three-year-old frame and I'm loving it.
Could well end up battered in the Alps on it, I read it’s demanding enough even when you’ve got the right bike.
I’ve seen people ride the natural trails on XC hardtails and 120mm bikes. They did fine, but they were professional guides. But anything from a mid-travel trail bike up is good, the main thing is decent tyres and brakes to prevent arm pump.
I ride similar places to you OP and the Banshee Prime is a great shout. I had 2nd hand one for a couple of years and it was fantastic, but a suspected crack meant I swapped for a different frame - let me suggest a leftfield choice: Canfield Tilt - 138mm rear and supposedly 130-150mm up front.
I used the Banshee bits to build it up but wanted a bit more and swapped the 140mm Yari for 130-160mm dual position Lyrik. This slackened off the head angle just enough and now it's perfect. Frame looks heavy on paper but it honestly rides like a bike 2kg lighter. Took a bit of faff to get the CCDB set up but once I had it sorted that CBF suspension is so smoooooooth...
You're looking at ~£2000 for frame and shock delivered, including duty & VAT.
Also, and not insignificantly – heavier rims, heavier casing tyres, slower rolling tyre models, and all-steel cassette.
I thought there’s less than 50g difference in the rims?
But yes the cassette is probably a fair bit heavier and I think I looked the weight of the tyres up, nearly an extra 500g I think for the rear.
Rims - yes about 50g x2, but it's the worst place to have it.
Rear tyre 500g as you say, front tyre 250g.
Cassette 120g.
Tacky Chan and Nobby Nic is a particularly fast combination even for a trail bike. Mazza Enduro Race is a slower pattern and stickier compound which won't roll nearly as well.
I reckon the above (just under a kilo) would contribute disproportionately more to the ride feel, than the 700g heavier frame.
Canfield Tilt – 138mm rear and supposedly 130-150mm up front
Looks great but a bit too close to my 130/150 Aether but with bigger wheels. As does the Prime I think.
Just had a look at the new Geometron Enduro bike with high pivot and Supre gearing
I think this would be at the very bottom of my list of bikes to take on the Tour of Mont Blanc.
Aren't they heaver than most downhill bikes?
Didn’t look at weight but I’m guessing heavy! Gearing without a hangy bit at the back does look like a good plan though…although I thought Supre gearing was still unreliable..?
Still waiting for my c to w certificate for the Canyon Strive - will provide some feedback when it eventually arrives. For me if it rides well it’s the ideal combo of a long travel trail bike and a downhill best.
Enduro bikes generally do seem to be getting heavier these days - burlier forks and bigger hub standards etc - this bike will be about 1.5kg up on my current one.
The 65° head angle sounds a bit steep so that is against it although it felt great I didn’t ride anything particularly steep. The price is also a sticking point.
If it felt great then why is 1 degree difference head angle being held against it? Isn’t the whole purpose of a test ride to judge for yourself rather than just looking at the numbers on paper?
I did the Megavalanche on mine last year & at no point did I think “you know what, I could do with 1 degree slacker head angle here”. 🤷♂️
I didn’t think I needed a slacker head angle until I got a bike with one!
In fairness that was 10 years ago and going from a nearly vertical tube…!
If it felt great then why is 1 degree difference head angle being held against it? Isn’t the whole purpose of a test ride to judge for yourself rather than just looking at the numbers on paper?
It is the whole point but unless you ride something at my limit (or the bike's, which is a much higher bar!) then you can't test it in all conditions on a demo.
Tbh it's the price more than the HA that's stopping me!
I might see what price they can build a 2023 frame up for though.
Just to add my sentinel carbon v2 is about 34lbs with the air shock on it - 35lbs ish with the coil (I think).
Thats a carbon frame that according to transition specs should built to 31-32lbs with the right build kit. Mine isn’t much difference but according to my digital luggage scales is a couple of lbs adrift.
I looked at the forbidden Druid v1 and that frame was (in theory) a touch heavier than the sentinel one.
In practice it rides really well / pedals decently (even with the coil and cascade) / descends like a demon. I think as long as a bike’s suspension isn’t ridiculously inefficient then being up around 34-35lbs isn’t the end of the world. it’s when you take a bike like that and add heavy casing tyres that things feel more sluggish.
@phil5556 can you put it on a cyclescheme?
I got a discounted non udh frame, dropper, headset, spare hanger, shock mount kit and idler pulley direct from Deviate with a voucher. They were brilliant to deal with, installed the headset for no extra cost and offered to fit the dropper too. They also have discounted XT parts at the mo, loads of drive train deals about.
I did consider the Bird when i was in the same situation but fancied trying out a high pivot for something different. It's built up as a trail bike but can handle steep and chunky stuff with ease, I'm taking it to the alps next month and can't bloody wait!
long as a bike’s suspension isn’t ridiculously inefficient then being up around 34-35lbs isn’t the end of the world.
I carried my bike up Ben Lomond last night, I'll have to weigh it later. In an ideal world I'd like anything new to be lighter than that but that is probably unlikely. Or at least if not lighter I'd like it to not have a pump bracket jabbing into my shoulder 🤣
can you put it on a cyclescheme?
Yes I can 🙂
I guess I'm in the same place as you, the Bird is a safe option, fancy trying something different. Someone had a shiny new Highlander up Ben Lomond last night, only just spotted it as he went past.
These things are pretty mega and this is a good deal, frame quality is superb, although admittedly its quite an 'old' bike now.
If your looking at dipping into your pockets for a full build, the all new Scott Ransom is suppsoed to be pretty bloody awesome:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-2024-scott-ransom-900-rc.html
I'm a full convert to the idea of Tracloc since buying my Bold, its very, very good especially for a bike where you want a decent amount of travel but still need to winch it up big hills.
If your looking at dipping into your pockets for a full build, the all new Scott Ransom is suppsoed to be pretty bloody awesome
Un-necessarily complicated lock out, headset cable routing, PF BB, linkage design with zero thought for riding in mud & it looks like an ebike.
Scott, yet again, making bikes that no-one wants to buy 😆
Un-necessarily complicated lock out, headset cable routing, PF BB, linkage design with zero thought for riding in mud & it looks like an ebike.
Scott, yet again, making bikes that no-one wants to buy 😆
That's exactly how I feel about Scott bikes. Everything they do is a complete checklist of everything I hate about modern bikes and would never buy.
Spend all that money on a lovely shiny rear shock and then hide it inside the bike - why???🥺
Scott, yet again, making bikes that no-one wants to buy
Yeah I've said it before, possibly in this thread, it could be the best riding bike ever but you have to like the look of what you're riding too.
The Scott is not a good looking bike, especially the new one. I've already got an e-bike that looks like an e-bike...
Still pondering n+1
I carried my current bike up Ben Lomond the other night, it was heavy enough that I don't really want to go much heavier if I can help it. This is the first time I've put much thought in to weight, but definitely erring towards lighter frames again.
You wouldn't go heavier (or at least need to). My current incarnation of an Aeris AM is the same weight as your bike above pedal on (Hope DH clip ins too - nearly 600g), but thats with Vivid coil shock & Marzocchi Super Z forks (Fox 38s but prettier).
I know, I rode the Aeris AM (and had a chat with Ben) last weekend. My wife’s bought one, waiting for the game to get to Bird. I suspect I’ll end up ordering one too…
Whilst you’re here @benpinnick can I spec one with SRAM GX non Transmission rather than Shimano or are you not offering that now? (It’s not an option on your online spec). And are Green Lyriks coming back in stock anytime soon?
That’s my Aether 7 that I’m weighing 😁
@phil5556 we can get it, but to be honest the price vs. Shimano means we're not buying much in at the moment. Im going to be updating prices but right now I think XTR Mech + Shifter + XT Cassette will be cheaper than GX Eagle. XTR arrives tomorrow.
Cool, I'd probably have to stick to Shimano then. I prefer SRAM but probably only because it's what I'm used to and the fact that on one of my bikes my Shimano mech died disappointingly quickly.