[Closed] What are your WORST 3 trailcentres

weeksy, so you don't rate Cwmcarn much, begs the question, where do you mostly ride then? Although limited in quantity CC quality surpasses Afan. IMO Cheers

Not really into slagging off other people's hard work but Llandegla wasn't enjoyable for me personally. It is just mountain biking by numbers, huge wide tracks, nothing inspirational, heaving with people more into bikes than biking, if you know what I mean.

Wharncliffe could be something, if FC would pull their finger out.

Apparently Singletraction shot themselves in the foot a bit with the FC ranger by generaly anoying him, hence nothing gets done. But it works as a DH center and TBH if it became another Dalby they'd probably have to sanitise the DH tracks. I like it in the summer when it's dry.

Guisbrorough woods. I tried to ride the red route but got so bored I gave up, it's just fireroad with 1 muddy unclimbable climb* and 1 downhill, which is OK, if a bit short as it's pretty much straight down the hill, could have been 3x the length and still been plenty steep enough.

*it's a good decent though, you still ocasionaly see people 'lost' trying to climb it.

Keilder, it just doesnt flow (for me). and the decents are a bit monotonous, just corner after corner after corner with no line choices, no features, nowt?

Thanks Mrcrushrider...

Afan for me, loved Penhydd but the rest of it you can keep.

I've not ridden too many, but Wharncliffe and Hamsterley seem to have missed the best trails in the area. Seems a bit odd for a trail centre, that.

Dalby, Marin, Llandegla.

But then I've only ridden three trail centres in my entire life so they're my favourite three too. Flipping brilliant fun all, I really should make time to visit some more.

You're all a bunch of spoiled kids, I remember battering around swampy bits of Peak District on a canti-braked Raleigh gate twenty years ago and having a bloody marvellous time, of course I wore an onion on my belt which was the style at the time, now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em...

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llandegla... best ridden on HT or FS?

Depends, which would you rather ride?

Cannock chase..for shizzle....polished round rocks stupid in the wet and a stupid amount of braking pumbs everywhere...the ever I've ever seen anywhere...

Then brechfa....crap

Then.....
Ashton court...

Leigh woods over the road was good and there spending loads money on it should be done by next year..

Final descent at forest of dean red run was mega fun...pushed up "hell hill" three times to run it again...

[i]Guisbrorough woods. I tried to ride the red route but got so bored I gave up, it's just fireroad with 1 muddy unclimbable climb* and 1 downhill, which is OK, if a bit short as it's pretty much straight down the hill, could have been 3x the length and still been plenty steep enough.

*it's a good decent though, you still ocasionaly see people 'lost' trying to climb it. [/i]

It's climable. ****ing hard but it's doable which to me is a good thing. Doesn't work as a waymarked uphill though granted.

While I'm here.
Mabie - Yawn
Ae - irritatingly bumpy and dull and could have been amazing
Grizedale - It's ok.

depending on how long I'm going to be in the saddle is usually my deciding factor. I use both at cannock (at different times) but I don't think I'd want to do more than cannock on the HT as it leaves me a bit broken.. and its setup 1x9 which is probably more of a deciding factor.

Bedgebury

I started a project at the begining of this year:
Not a complex one, I just set out to ride all of the red routes at every one the UK trail centres in one year....

North Face Trail at Grizedale was a big let down given the area and the hype around it when it was first built. To much boardwalk not enough flow, for my liking...............

Thetford was not really like the man made trail I hoped for, it was more like any other woodland trail found in any village, only flatter and less natural feeling, i achually got bored riding round Thetford.....................

At Wharncliffe, i think the locals must have moved the signs, as all i found was zero flow, deep mud and a trail that felt very unfinished after the first 500meters gave the impression it was going to be ok, before it just vanished into nothing! The DH there is ment to be world class, so id have thought the trail might be a gem and not a turd....

" you can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"

Marin
Llangdegla
Mabie

Wharncliffe, i think the locals must have moved the signs, as all i found was zero flow, deep mud and a trail that felt very unfinished after the first 500meters gave the impression it was going to be ok....

I've only ridden bits of it but the impression I got was it's a vaguely technical way of linking the top car park withthe downhill runs. It's only dissapointing if you ride it in the wet or think its an actual ride in itself 🙂

For me Sherwood Pines was a big disappointment, laid out with no feel for the terrain, too many straight lines, and a clear lack of investment in surfacing and build. It reminded me of the old Ashton Court trail in Bristol, better than nothing but not really up to being promoted as an official trail. The jumps and DH areas were great though.

I can't think of any other trail centres I've genuinely disliked. The Seven Stanes seem to be getting a lot of flak but IMO they do live up to the hype. Much of Ae was closed when we rode it and the diversions were so badly thought out (a quick portage through a stagnant swamp anybody?), but that was a couple of years back.

Brechfa in the wet last weekend was a bit of a handful but that's down to the rider, not the trail.

Glentress - each time I go down, they seem to have converted more of the Red route into a BMX track, replacing the eroded trails that were actually engaging to ride.

Ride the black nice and fast then instead.

I've only ever been disappointed with one trail centre and that was Dalby. I just remember it being mostly very easy and a little dull. We did a ride out over the moor from there which was much better.

Black route at Bedgebury

That for real?

Rougher bits on the road route c2c!

With Kirroughtree, personally I don't think it measures up to the hype but then very little would. That doesn't make it [i]bad[i] though... Just, possibly disappointing.

McMoab didn't disappoint. I found it tough as, and very different to anything I've ridden before.

Cannock. The only one I've been to which has disappointed me.

Anyone saying Penmachno or Marin is either seriously spoiled for trail centres, mental, or obviously just too shit or unfit to ride them properly 😉

I'd forgotten about the Moray Monster trails. The Ben Aigan Hammer was pretty dull but in the other bits I found the Gully Monster made up for a lot of so-so riding.

It had never even occurred to me to consider the fun park at Kirkhill a trail centre, more just a vaguely entertaining way to finish a ride in the rest of the forest.

and ChrisL - what were you driving at CV? we used to razz around trailbuilding at CV in everything from clios to lowered audis and not so much as a knock on the sump. The road in was more like a bombing range than a road though

It was my bog-standard, not lowered, Skoda Octavia. Ambushed by an unexpectedly deep pothole on a demo day. 🙁

ouch. aye some of the potholes should have been reclassified as geological features. Thats what happens in a "working forest" though apparently...

Carron Valley...it's a criminal waste of the area's potential.

couldn't agree more. second only to Fauldhouse! in the number of people within a 2 hour radius (something like 2.7m people within an hours drive)

it was (and is) a huge untapped resource. Still, its not for the lack of trying 🙂 http://www.carronvalley.org.uk

as for the uphill jumps all jumps go uphill, if they dont they are drop-offs 🙂

Must not be going fast enough 😉

Apparently Singletraction shot themselves in the foot a bit with the FC ranger by generaly anoying him, hence nothing gets done.

just re-read that. smiley overload...

Apparently Singletraction shot themselves in the foot a bit with the FC ranger by generaly anoying him, hence nothing gets done.

I'd love to know how you came by that impression? Care to share?

I wouldn't say SingletrAction shot itself in the foot, I'd say FC consistently failed to engage, realise the potential of the place and to make anything good happen. So total was their lack of positive input that nothing the local guys did, be it planning, route design and marking out or anything else was ever going to suceed. For example, when we get the offer of free aggregate and that's rejected (for no clear or stated reason) by FC what are we supposed to do?

The Beat Forester is usually key to getting anything done and in the case of Wharncliffe the BF didn't want to know. This was despite numerous emails and comm's trying to meet and make arrangements / strike up a relationship. Unfortunately the only person with any cycle-savy from FC was Chris, the ranger for Sherwood Pines but his involvement was a bit arms length, "ranger without a mandate" so I think he was always struggling to be effective in this instance.

When SingletrAction got involved there was a fairly active unofficial trail building contingent and a sizeable existing user group (MTB, nevermind all the other recreation activities). We first got invited in because the FC threat was to eradicate all trails in the woods due to user conflict on the bridleway / trail at the bottom (Trans Pennine?). We intiially helped do some stuff to address this, and completed everything we agreed to do. FC never came on site with plant and machinery to build the big catch berm and trail re-route as was agreed but hey ho. Whatever else, the trails are still there in part thanks to our work.

Try juggling a bunch of unofficial trail builders, a group trying to get things on a legitimate footing, rider / volunteer apathy and the fact that any minute change to existing trails was pored over with a split of "love it" / "hate it" response that ranged from internet flammings to physically removing stuff on site. Great fun :-S

So saying nothing got done because we annoyed the FC is so far from the truth as to be laughable.

At Wharncliffe, i think the locals must have moved the signs, as all i found was zero flow, deep mud and a trail that felt very unfinished after the first 500meters gave the impression it was going to be ok, before it just vanished into nothing! The DH there is ment to be world class, so id have thought the trail might be a gem and not a turd....

The woods are subject to quite a bit of antisocial use (quads, 4x4s, car theft and vandalism etc). They've also got some local characters who were pretty happy to threaten anyone doing stuff they didn't like and vandalising signs / cars was a too frequent occurence.

Laughably signs got put in a year or more ago for the XC route along the intended alignment. But we never built the damn thing, it feels unfinished because it's exactly that. Volunteers did what they could but we staed from the outset it needed a fully armoured construction (i.e. hardcore and rock surfacing). Without FC letting us bring that in it will always turn to slop come the winter months.

Add to this that the delicate balance of volunteer enthusiasm was constantly being undermined as we tried to "hold back" folks who wanted to just carry on with unofficial building with a promise that FC would permit some good stuff sooner or later. As FC never did come through (in fact most comm's were usually of the "don't do this, we're taking that out .." kind then that promise became very hollow. Everyone got fed up and eventually it all fizzled out.

I have a lot of respect for the people both local and within SingletrAction who tried their hardest, on a voluntary basis, to try and make something happen at Wharncliffe. The fact it didn't doesn't rest with them. Maybe looking at the organisation with a mandate to promote physical activity, who have an underused site within spitting distance of major urban conurbations, with better ttransport links than almost any other "trail centre" and that would be usefully deployed to ease visitor pressure on one of the busiest (footfall by area) national parks in the UK might be a bit better? Heavenforbid they might even be publicly funded and the land might be publicly owned?

They might even have taken a commercial view what with the UK's "greatest ever DHer" on the site's doorstep advocating development.

Pfft 😛

But hey ho, I'm ranting and facts or reality should never get in the way of the odd throw away comment, eh?

Cheers

Tim
Chairman, SingletrAction

Cheeky Monkey, it must have struck you as ironic that the trails that STA did build were used extensively for the X Country and Downhill races in the recent British Schools Games, presumably with the FC's blessing. In fact I was there and my questioning of how they had overcome the legallities of racing on the bridleway which cuts across the end of the carpark just by the finish line seemed to fall on deaf ears of the FC bod who was there glad handing the politicians and local dignitaries who were swanning about there.

Nant yr Arian
CyB
Skyline Afan

Just to defend Bedgebury here a bit...

That little section has to be graded black as there are two drop off's which you can't roll, so it's mandatory air, which as far as the FC is concerned means it's black. The drops are not huge, but bigger than the video shows - the biggest is just under 1m. I did notice in the video though both riders took the chicken route at the end missing the biggest drop off! 😀

It was designed and built entirely by voluntary labour, and getting the plans past the FC was a major challenge in it's own right - bearing in mind 4 years ago at Bedgebury they wouldn't even allow berms as they "are too intimidating"! We have moved on a bit since then...

When designing new trails at Bedgebury we have to bear in mind as well that to build anything much bigger would be completely out of context with the rest of the forest and the other stuff locally - we have to build stuff which "fits" the demographic of the visitors which come along, as the majority of these are families and those who turn up and hire bikes on site, making large investments for the minority of riders would not be reasonable.

For this reason the main emphasis now to develop the trail is to build "bus stop" challenges so as you ride a section, there will be an option for a short alternative. This might be a bigger drop off, or a rock garden, or some skinny's etc. This keeps the main trail rideable by most, whilst giving more fun and challenging options for those of us who want them.

This will all be funded and build by the bike club and we are always in need of more help (free parking for those who turn up and build as well) so if anyone wants to give us a hand, please let me know as you will be very welcome!

A lot of time has been spent this year on drainage, and we really don't get the swamps we used to. Sure there are puddles in places but no deep mud apart from a couple of short fire road links which are being looked at.

I'm not at all surprised several people have said it's the worst trail centre, but we don't have the terrain of the Welsh and Scottish centres and crucially we don't get the funding that these places get either as we are not in a deprived area. Personally I really like it - it's different to all the rest which I find a bit formulaic, but then again I much prefer natural trails anyway!

So for the record:

Thetford (although the unmrked stuff is good)
Afan
Grizedale

Cheers

Boris
(Bedgebury Forest Cycle Club Press officer (and trail builder, club coach, ride leader, race marshal etc, etc 🙂 ))

stuboy2uk - Member

"Anyone saying Penmachno or Marin is either seriously spoiled for trail centres, mental, or obviously just too shit or unfit to ride them properly"

Re: Penmachno - I must be mental then as I don't think I'm spoiled, not shit and pretty fit - the trail is grim with a flat slog, in a gutter, at the top that is neither up nor down that takes you back to where you split and takes ages - no payoff for the hard work....

Regarding Wharncliffe, Tim has covered most of the issues - non of which were in the hands of anyone within the riding community, who gave so much to the project.

Despite being picked up by a few over enthusiastic publications that listed Wharncliffe as a trail centre, it certainly isn't one in my book. It could have been great and is still a bloody good place to ride if you know where to look though.

Worst for me is Sherwood Pines mainly because on the FC website it claims to have a red route which I would clasify as a fairly tame blue route. Disapointing.

I find The Marin trail near Betws Coed a bit boring for most of it's length.

Wasn't keen on Hamsterly either (about 3 years ago) but I suspect we didn't find the best bits there.

I have to say I've enjoyed every trail centre I've ridden at (admittedly its only been Scottish ones plus Grizedale)

Carron Valley was initially not great but there has been a lot of work done to it recently- Eas Dubh now rides like a descent and the Runway has been resurfaced (although I do miss the little doubles), seems a waste of a massive forest though!

Dalbeattie is quite hardwork, there are quite a lot of sections that are neither up nor down the technical features are fun though.

A lot of people slag off Ae, I actually quite like it but I can see why its not liked by all, there are quite of lot of steep up in the middle of a descent moments.

Gonna be contraversial - Glentress Black is a rough old slog (its a physical challenge for sure) but its not overally technical (is it black for its lenght?) the red route is a lot more fun

It was designed and built entirely by voluntary labour

This will all be funded and build by the bike club and we are always in need of more help (free parking for those who turn up and build as well) so if anyone wants to give us a hand, please let me know as you will be very welcome!

So you are telling me, the piss take price of £8.50 to park there, doesn't actually go towards maintaining and building trails?

I hate the place even more now.

As a lot of mountain bikers go there to ride, and not just parents with kids, why not make some decent trails and grade them accordingly? At least then it might be worth paying the parking charge, which is f*cking criminal.

The Monster trails are mostly ok but I agree on the Hammer. A complete waste of money on a hill with the potential to have become a truly great trail centre. If all the money and time had been spent on Ben Aigan instead of splitting it between there and Fochabers it would have been brilliant. We are probably about to lose Ben Aigan trails through lack of use so if you want to try them do it soon. You will never see trails like the Pink Fluffy Bunny and Mast Blast again because they just can't build fall line trails any more. It's a shame, they are great trails but a ball ache to get to and from.

3 worst:
1) llandegla - ruined by far too many incessant jumps one after the other
2) marin - what there is is good but each singletrack section is so short it quickly gets frustrating.
3) wharncliffe - nothing for xc
saying llandegla has "some" jumps is laughable. has it got anything [i]else[/i] nowadays? seems to be mainly scouse chavs with kids and MAMILs that go there anyway these days, in fact not even MAMILs - MAMIBs.

marin was a disappointment when I went there, loads of fireroad climbing for a tiny titbit morsel of a descent and then back on fireroad climbing again. And a lot of it was diverted anyway via lanes that involved significant road descending.

Anyone that lists coed y brenin amongst the worst trail centres is, well, it's more than just bad taste, you're [i]factually[/i] wrong. It is the original and best trail centre.

Sherwood pines - if you failed to enjoy it then it could be because you expected altitude and consequently failed to pedal? It's actually pretty good fun if you work it and pump the trail where necessary.

Anyone that lists coed y brenin amongst the worst trail centres is, well, it's more than just bad taste, you're factually wrong. It is the original and best trail centre.

So you are telling me, the piss take price of £8.50 to park there, doesn't actually go towards maintaining and building trails?

not even MAMILs - MAMIBs

[i]bonj - Member

3 worst:
1) llandegla - ruined by far too many incessant jumps one after the other[/i]

"Jumps"?! To quote your good self..."It's actually pretty good fun if you work it and pump the trail where necessary. "

sheffield43 -

Wasn't keen on Hamsterly either (about 3 years ago) but I suspect we didn't find the best bits there.

- and there's more where that came from.

You might find things have moved on a lot in the last three years!

Looks good!

richmtb - Member
Gonna be contraversial - Glentress Black is a rough old slog (its a physical challenge for sure) but its not overally technical (is it black for its lenght?) the red route is a lot more fun

TBH it's a black because of age, if it was built today it'd be red IMO. A couple of sections would push the current definition of red a little due to high consequence of failure, but not many.

My dream for GT would be a new, proper black to link into the Bitch, Wormhole, XX etc, and a little work to regrade the existing black and hook it up with the existing red at the top so you'd have a choice of 2 outs and 2 returns. But then I suppose it wouldn't handle GT red traffic levels.