Possibly Giant are toughening up on warranty claims as they are experiencing financial difficulties as seen in the news articles about them delaying supplier payments etc.
Goodness - I wonder if that chap took his bike to Marin like they offered.
“Because the location of the crack wasn’t described on the job sheet”
I especially liked how they opened with, the bike has been in a crash, obviously missing the broken frame and then moved on to wear and tear.
How does a seat tube rip out of a bb shell through wear and tear?
From the list of parts required it did initially read like it'd been run over, or Crashed heavily and the chap was trying his luck, but clearly not or that'd be an easy end to the conversation for the pretend warranty department.
Possibly Giant are toughening up on warranty claims as they are experiencing financial difficulties as seen in the news articles about them delaying supplier payments etc.
Their warranty certainly used to be decent. An ex colleague snapped a chain stay 10 years ago on a then 5 year old road frame and it was replaced without bother.
The Camden Giant store story....the worst part of that is that it appears a bike shop mechanic has been allowed to have an opinion that matters on the fabrication of a frame. Now I know there are some lovely folk that work in bike shops (including some here) and 'some' are knowledgeable people (often the ones that have done something else first and are working in a bike shop as second or third career) but they tend to be the exception. Your 'average' bike shop mechanic struggles to dribble in a straight line let alone have any sort of useful opinion to contribute on the nuances of tig weld failures.
lugged 853 for lugged seamed Ti
I certainly didn't get offered an 853 frame......
Yeah, realised that after i thought about it. Maybe 531, or even 501 depending on which of the Ti frames you cracked!
Anyone know what the deal here is if you upgrade your kit. Different wheels, fork, brakes etc, doing the fittings yourself.
Anyone know what the deal here is if you upgrade your kit. Different wheels, fork, brakes etc, doing the fittings yourself.
The warranty document says that 'modifications' will void the warranty. Giant appears to want to apply its warranty exclusions well beyond what most people would say is reasonable, so anyone with one of their bikes should work on the principle that ANY change from stock could be potentially problematic.
The handbook rather confusingly says you should seek advice from your Giant dealer before swapping parts, and that any 'servicing', which in the OP's case, appears to cover taking parts off, should be carried out at a dealer or void your warranty.
Confusing and contradictory, which is not what you want when you own or are considering buying thousands of pounds worth of equipment.
I certainly didn’t get offered an 853 frame…
Yeah, thinking about it... mine wasn't 853... no point with glue and lugs. Had steel handlebars as well.
The warranty document says that ‘modifications’ will void the warranty.
Wise catch all clause. So many parts you can change on a frame that'll push it beyond what it was designed for.
The handbook rather confusingly says you should seek advice from your Giant dealer before swapping parts
See above.
On the basis of this thread... any Giant dealer (LBS or on-line) should be highlighting to the potential customer that although the bike may be very good etc that in reality it has no warranty. That's the implication.
Wise catch all clause. So many parts you can change on a frame that’ll push it beyond what it was designed for.
Perhaps, but seeing that Giant has now clearly showed an appetite for catching all its warranty claims (and binning them), consumers should start taking them seriously.
Well if you can’t send a shock for service without invalidating your warranty you can’t fit forks yourself
So many parts you can change on a frame that’ll push it beyond what it was designed for.
Sure, but most companies list those e.g. max rotor size, max fork length. You can't claim that changing say pedals or saddle would cause a crack. That fails the 'reasonableness' test.
You can't list them all. Create any list of inappropriate component swaps and I'll give you an example of one you might not have foreseen.... "the manual didn't say I couldn't put a 275 wheel in my 26 wheel bike" (when the manual was written before 275 wheels were a thing). Catch alls are probably needed... and then you're relying on a sensible implementation... that's what's really be argued about here, isn't it? You'd expect the catch all to be useful for the manufacturer or shop to be able to turn down warranties because of any use of inappropriate components, or them being poorly fitted or maintained... the allegation here is that this one is being used to avoid warranty claims. Not sure it's a valid allegation in the OP, but I seem to be in the minority here.
My claim isn’t due to modification though. It’s basically stock. My grievance is you can’t work on your own bike.
On the basis of this thread… any Giant dealer (LBS or on-line) should be highlighting to the potential customer that although the bike may be very good etc that in reality it has no warranty. That’s the implication.
I’m going to guess that 90% of the bikes giant sell world wide are unmodified for most of their working life.
The dealer might say “To keep your warranty bring it back here for servicing”. I’m not sure the best way to sell bikes is to say that this basically has no warranty
That doesn’t mean I’m not on the OPs side
It’s basically stock.
I thought you gave them a stripped down frame, after "telling them" that's what you intended to do?
I said can I give you the bare frame? They didn’t say no.
This no modification from stock has been brought up as a consequence of this and me looking for clarification re warranty.
For example I’ve spoken to giant USA and they said do what you want yourself as long as what you do doesn’t cause the issue. For example longer forks snapping the ht.
To add to the above I would expect the Giant dealer to advise that Giant would want to see the whole bike, I did have an email conversation and visit the shop. At no point was the terms of the warranty needing the full bike mentioned. I would expect them to know and advise on such matters more than the consumer.
They didn’t say no.
You didn't get a response about stripping down the bike yourself though, did you? You have no idea if that email was ever read by anyone. Always get confirmation of the return procedure. I do think you're being hard done by here, they should be giving you far more leeway, but telling a dealer or manufacturer that you're going to strip the frame by email and then pressing ahead without agreement is something for others to avoid in future.
EDIT: I'd also add... that if they determine that one of their dealers must carry out the assessment, there should be no charge for you there. A charge for a rebuild is reasonable, but if they want you to give them the whole bike to assess, and they need to strip it themselves as part of that, it seems very unreasonable to charge you for that.
Have you sent the receipt or pictures to giant yet?
If not why not just stick it back together and take it to another shop? They’ll no doubt try to weasel out of it in some other way, possibly for having the audacity to ride the thing off road, but at least it’ll give you more ammunition to flame them with, not that you need it.
When I sent my Giant for a warranty claim to Paul's it was done with me stripping it back to send just the frame. They were happy for me to do that.
@wysiwyg , worth saving this link - https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/giant-quick-fix-combo-kit-mini-pump
This is the "essentials to get you started"
Giant expect (and encourage, by selling this) their customers to work on their own bike, whilst out on their bikes. Removing and refitting wheels, tyres, fixing punctures, adjusting the derailleur and pretty much any bolt on the bike.
No mention of the warranty*. No mention of restriction of sale to Giant authorised dealers only. And the page is headed "Service Gear" All for sale to and use by Giant customers.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/gear/service-gear
*Though the rider on their warranty page is using one. Maybe he's the Giant-Authorised Service Companion you're supposed to employ to accompany you on all rides in case of punctures or saddle adjustment. I don't see him offered on the website, though?
Sniff > Paul’s is my original supplier also. No response from them though as yet.
For example I’ve spoken to giant USA and they said do what you want yourself as long as what you do doesn’t cause the issue. For example longer forks snapping the ht.
Yeah, US is _not_ a good example to use. A lot of warranty stuff just gets let through to avoid litigation, which is very expensive out there.
Some people lawyer up before they even make the warranty claim.
I'm confused how you'd ever get a warranty
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/warranty
"The above warranty, or any implied warranty, does not cover:
...
Bicycles serviced by a non Authorised Giant Dealer."
https://www.giant-shoreham.co.uk/gb/service
This is their standard service
"Our mechanics will safety check your bicycle with the headset, bottom bracket and hubs checked and adjusted. Then check the adjustment of brakes and gears. All nuts and bolts are checked and torqued, tyres correctly inflated and chain lubricated."
It includes inflating tyres and oiling chain. Which bits of this exactly are you not allowed to carry out in order to preserve the warranty?!
I checked with them for my claim as I'm in the Highlands and the local Giant dealer couldn't be arsed responding to help me out so posted back to original supplier.
Email chain shows that stripping it shouldn't be an excuse for your claim being denied.....
Me..... If I post it I guess it's just the frame so can remove fork, chain set etc?
Pauls......Yes, you could remove as many of the components as possible.
fixing punctures
"Hello!? hello? Oh hi, is this Bobby's Bikes my local Giant dealer? Yep, oh great, I'm up on Mam Tor and me back tyre's gawn flat. Can you get someone out here to fix it please?"
"Well I don't want to invalidate my warranty, so if you'd be so kind... Great thanks!"
I feel as though there must be more to this! it is important for all of us here to remember that there are two sides to any story. Has Giant or the shop offered to supply you a discounted replacement frame? They did for me when my bike was out of warranty, and I got a cool upgrade at the same time. I've love to see any photos of the frame or bike if there are any available, there is just something about this that that doesn't sound right?
I think there is a separate question about the Giant warranty, and the language about non Giant Authorised Dealers etc. But that is separate to this bike in question. Have you got the official response from Giant @wysiwyg so we can see exactly what they said and what their language was? That will be important in this, surely.
Picture of bike is a few pages prior to this one...
Has Giant or the shop offered to supply you a discounted replacement frame?
I suspect he may have mentioned that had that been offered..
They did for me when my bike was out of warranty
lifetime frame warranty (supposedly) so it (in theory) can't be out of warranty
there is just something about this that that doesn’t sound right?
Which department do you work in for Giant??
CBA reading all the guff and sniping, just wondered if any actual phone calls to talk people had been made as opposed to email?
I feel as though there must be more to this! it is important for all of us here to remember that there are two sides to any story.
The fact it's a 2015 model and OP says it's only 4yrs old maybe! 🤔
And not sure we've seen a pic of the crack yet - just the bike leaning on a pallet. Maybe I've missed it.
Warranty denied. The official response is a few pages back as as DB pointed out is the bike, slightly further on.
he fact it’s a 2015 model and OP says it’s only 4yrs old maybe! 🤔
I assume as it was bought from Paul's it was one of their NOS clearance models that that they used to sell a lot of pre pandemic.
As above. The exact age shouldn’t matter with “lifetime” anyway. I bought it new. Giant haven’t even seen the crack as far as I’m aware they just denied the warranty without seeing it. I didn’t feel it added much to the thread.
Giant have responded to a Twitter post on this.
Still basically sticking to 'terms of the warranty' but saying 'we're nice guys' too.
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Email chain shows that stripping it shouldn’t be an excuse for your claim being denied…..
Me….. If I post it I guess it’s just the frame so can remove fork, chain set etc?
Pauls……Yes, you could remove as many of the components as possible.
Well that shows you got clarification of the returns procedure, before stripping the bike. And you’re dealing with the shop you purchased it from, yes? Not quite the same situation the OP is in.
Surely the giant dealer networks procedure should be standardised.
Why wasn’t his denied etc
Although it is not directly relevant to the Op's case - it is worth pointing out, as has been done in the past with numerous similar cases in the past on the forum - that the actual meaning of the term 'lifetime warranty' is often not the same as the common perception of its meaning. A 'lifetime' warranty in law is essentially a meaningless term, and it is open for each manufacturer to stipulate in their terms how they define 'lifetime'... it may be not quite what you think it is.... it's not relevant specifically here but it can save a lot of headaches as the term is almost always bandied about incorrectly. In this case 4 years of appropriate usage should be well within any definition of the products lifetime.
I feel as though there must be more to this! it is important for all of us here to remember that there are two sides to any story.
^ OP posted up the email he got from Giant earlier in the thread.
I’ve love to see any photos of the frame or bike if there are any available,
^ Again, see earlier in the thread.
it is important for all of us here to remember that
...you created your login yesterday to comment on this thread?
I feel as though there must be more to this! it is important for all of us here to remember that there are two sides to any story. Has Giant or the shop offered to supply you a discounted replacement frame? They did for me when my bike was out of warranty, and I got a cool upgrade at the same time. I’ve love to see any photos of the frame or bike if there are any available, there is just something about this that that doesn’t sound right?
Do tell us more about your cool upgrade, and please expand on your hunches about the OP's story, throwaway account person.
The photo doesn’t show the crack though - it’s just a picture of the bike fully assembled. 🤷♂️
Also OP you say you are still waiting for the retailer you actually purchased from to get back to you. Is this still the case? What happens when you ring - don’t they answer? Try withholding your number maybe if so…
