[Closed] Very wide bars

I felt wider bars (780s) fit my my body shape better and when I was coming down very rocky places I could hold a line better, presumably that's the increased leverage... but then I also changed bar sweep and rise, stem length, fork length, wheel size and frame size all at the same time so it could be anything really.

I've never ridden my motorbike in anything like the style I ride my mountain bike so never tried to compare the two.

Wider bars give you more leverage and thus steering torque to resist destabilising torque from the wheel and this also increases the distance you have to move your hands for a given steering input, giving both finer control and also reducing destabilising inputs from the rider getting off balance and pushing/pulling when they shouldn't be.

Is this not akin to the small steering wheels and fast racks on racing cars and the large wheels and slower racks on off-road vehicles? (Ignoring more modern things with power steering and steering dampers etc)

There's also an affect on bike fit.

I like wide bars but they don't fit through the trees here, so I run 740mm locally and have a set of 800s for away trips.

Ok, the whole "leverage" thing sounds like you all have knackerd headset bearings 🙂

Shock horror, I ride a fat bike with 620 bars and have done for a year or so. They went on the bike as that's all I had at the time and they stayed as I didn't feel the need to change. However, today I popped on some 750s and will be out for a ride tonight. I'll report back on the vast amount of "leverage" and uber control I'll now have over my bike.

I think you are right chief. Driving a very old pre power steering land rover off road the slow rack and big steering wheel meant your arms had to go like the clappers to steer the thing but it also meant less chance of the wheel being snatched from your hands

interesting

A rough guide I use is fall forwards onto a rail and put your arms out to grab the rail and catch you. Try to not think about your arm position but let them go to a natural position. Measure the width and see how it compares.

Falling forward onto the floor I get c640 edge of one hand to the other. That's what I have on my road bike and I'd guess is about my shoulder width. I rode 640mm risers for some years back in the day.

But of internet reading and there was a sensible suggestion from an America coach who gave a good argument for bars being as wide as your natural push up

Changing bar width definitely does odd at first - there can be a natural instinct to ride in from the ends. Years ago when I first switched up from about 640 on my commuter I took someones back light cluster out misjudging the width of the bike. Very easy to catch trees as well if you do this.

I've been riding 730 on my bikes for a while. When I built my Geometron the widest I had to hand was a 740 and that has never felt wide enough - I found myself naturally riding with my hands almost off the end of the bars.

I'm finding it's linked to riding position - the more I ride over the front the wider I want the bars to be. On my 29er hardtail 730 still feels good but now feels too narrow on my 26" Helius (that I used to ride 685s on). 800 used to seem absurd but I can see myself riding it now.

There's got to be a limit though - I know that beyond about 750 there are tree gaps where I ride that the bike will no longer go through.

I've always thought it's more about balance and stability than leverage? The reason a tightrope walker puts out their arms. You lean a bike more that turn the bars when riding at any speed - a longer bar makes the movement needed to do that greater doesn't it?

Then honestly, there's no point in me trying again because you'll still just see what you've decided I'm saying, not what I'm actually saying.

No, not at all. I've misunderstood, so you need to clarify. I don't have an agenda ffs, just want to talk about bikes.

Ok, the whole "leverage" thing sounds like you all have knackerd headset bearings

The leverage relates to the fact your bike has a head angle of less than 90 degrees and a fork offset too. This means a torque is required to turn the wheel against the resistance created by the trail figure (distance of contact patch behind projected steering axis) and to lift the front of the bike according to the jacking effect of the fork offset.

I'm currently using 810mm bars which raises eyebrows when I tell people, or they see them on the bike when I am not riding it.

Thing is, I did the whole "get into most comfortable press-up position and measure the distance between the outside edges of your hands" thing and the result was........ 810mm.

It is definitely to do with body shape - arm length and shoulder width.

I am a smidge under six foot, but have quite long arms, and I am quite wide across the shoulders. This bar feels great for me and that is what matters, no?

The leverage relates to the fact your bike has a head angle of less than 90 degrees and a fork offset too. This means a torque is required to turn the wheel against the resistance created by the trail figure (distance of contact patch behind projected steering axis) and to lift the front of the bike according to the jacking effect of the fork offset.

Aah.. interesting.. so the slacker head angles of today's bike would explain why so many people like wider bars. I can see that yes.

The Salsa has a 71 deg HA though, which might explain why I don't feel like going wider on that. However wheel size is still an issue because the contact patch still exerts more leverage because it's still further from the steering axis than it would be on a 26er with the same HA.

The bars on my motorbike are narrower than on my mountain bikes but the front wheel assembly- tyre, wheel and rotor- is heavier than the entire bike. And I've never tried to get a pushbike to turn a corner at 100mph

Road bikes take a totally different riding style where you use your bodybweight to turn. They also have steering dampers that operate both inwards and outwards. You ride mtbs more like MX bikes, which come standard with 800mm bars.

Yeah - at speed you'll be pushing the bars [i]away[/i] from the corner and leaning in to turn.

780mm is good, for me, but there's no doubt in the tight twisty woods - where a lot of my general riding goes on - lopping 20mm off helps, but I do then find I'm naturally holding on to the very ends of the grips.

They also have steering dampers that operate both inwards and outwards

Some do but the damper is there to prevent unwanted rapid movement like tank slappers, not to slow your normal steering input

Like Dannyh above, I find that 810 works for me, on the fatty; most of the time*.
760-800 on trail bikes and 720 on the xc steel hardtail.
I tend to try to steer by leaning and using bar leverage as much as practical, so longer bars mean more leverage and easier turning when momentum is on your side. I also reckon that on properly bouldery terrain, a big bar helps you keep it pointing the right way, most of the time. Like everything else, it's about the compromise.

* Except last Sunday when my right little finger touched a tree at speed, quite cleanly snapping. Still hurts a bit and it's gone a funny green/yellow colour.

I know bucaneer, but wide bars on MTB also serve the purpose of resisting deflection at speed.

When I first went from 685mm to 760mm, it felt odd. 780mm unsurprisingly felt in the same league as 760mm.

I think the benefit comes from leverage allowing you to keep the wheel pointing where you want it over rough ground etc.

Bigger wheels only develop higher gyroscopic forces than smaller due to their additional rotating mass - their rotational velocity will be lower due to them needing fewer revolutions to cover the same distance. So not enough to justify much of an increase in bar width.

I'm not pretending that gyroscopic forces are zero, but they're predictable and don't therefore knock you off line like bumps will, so you don't need wide bars to deal with them.

I don't think it really relates to the head angle either that much, it's just shorter stems that go with wider bars will ride better with a slacker angle.

You can ride any bike on the market no handed, regardless of head angle and wheel weight (within the limits of stuff that's available to buy, from track bike to DH bike). Try that on rough ground and it becomes a bit risky regardless of the bike

Fairly simple innit, with longer bars you input more arm movement to achieve the same wheel angle (compared to a slimmer bar). Benefits = less twitchy response to input, & less jarring feedback from bumps/knocks to the front wheel.

OP - better to have too much rather than too little. At least you can cut them down to size.

Other manufacturers should do the same.

You can ride any bike on the market no handed, regardless of head angle and wheel weight (within the limits of stuff that's available to buy, from track bike to DH bike)

I don't recommend trying it on a Brompton, nor on a Nicolai Geometron. It's possible but the window is much much smaller.

wide bars on MTB also serve the purpose of resisting deflection at speed

Agreed, you are right