[Closed] Upgrade or new... 1st world problem content

If you love your bike enough to keep it it, how heavy are you?   It’s much cheaper to drop a couple of pounds of body weight.  That will improve your climbing more than the bike upgrades.

Weight fluctuates from 80kg (lockdown riding every day) to 84kg (my 'winter coat'...)
I'm somewhere in the middle at the moment, and am as fast up the climbs as I've ever been.

Your problem is.... dropping weight genereally means decreasing travel and geometry. BIkes that can do 'more' are heavier... So do you want a bike that' techincally less capable ? Because you can't have everything.

Wondering how much benefit will be gained from an upgrade to most parts to get it to around 12kg.

Pretty much none (presuming that it is currently around 14kg and not 100kg, i.e. only saving 1 or 2 kg)

You also don't really need to add 1st world problem to your title as EVERY thread in the bike forum is a 1st world problem 🙂

Just get the Izzo, it will suit your riding better.

And you'll have that new bike feeling.

And a lot less money.

Keep it the same.ride some places where it's more suitable to get the best out of it and appreciate it more.

Pretty much none

Totally disagree. It'll make a significant difference which you will notice hugely and will give you a fat grin every time you start an uphill.
Having said which, not convinced that the best way to achieve this is by fitting the wrong fork to the bike.

Be wary of your weight comparison though. Despite the fact that we supposedly have an SI Standard 1kg sitting in a lab in Paris, a "12 kg" bike is not 2,000 grammes lighter than a "14kg" bike.

What frame size is yours?
What frame size Izzo did they weigh?
Was it a perfect frame with zero excess bits?
Did your 5010 have pedals on when you weighed it?
Did your 5010 have 150g of Helitape on it when you weighed it?
How accurate are your scales?
Bottle cage?
Etc

Comparing bike weights should be a flawless piece of piss, but it isn't unless you have both bikes in front of you with exactly the same clothes on.

You also don’t really need to add 1st world problem to your title as EVERY thread in the bike forum is a 1st world problem 🙂

Well said.

I'd be looking at some light wheels and tyres first.

I thought climbs were endured to get to the fun downhill part.wish I could love climbing.

Recently done a similar, gone from a Whyte T130 C RS at around 13.7kg (that's with light wheels/tyres and some carbon bits too) to a 12.3kg Transition Spur and though it's early days the difference is startling. First big thing is the change to 29 inch wheels, rolls and holds speed a lot better. Second is you do feel the weight difference massively. Wheels are a smidge lighter on the new bike, so the saving is in the frame/fork. I would definitely look at something like the Spur or Izzo, something lighter with bigger wheels and you'll notice a far bigger difference.

I’d be looking at some light wheels and tyres first.

This would be my advice too. You won't save much weight from just a fork, but you'll lose a lot of descending ability. If you want an XC bike, buy an Anthem or something similar.

I’d be looking at some light wheels and tyres first.

They'd still be the wrong size though.

It’ll make a significant difference which you will notice hugely and will give you a fat grin every time you start an uphill.

Really, 1.5 kg will do that for you. We are all different I suppose but 1.5kg would make sod all difference to my overall times around a loop. It may feel faster but in reality it won't be.

First big thing is the change to 29 inch wheels, rolls and holds speed a lot better. Second is you do feel the weight difference massively.

Not much point comparing bikes which differ by only 1.4kg if the wheels are a totally different size. It will totally be the wheel size that is making the bike faster.

I know it's fashionable to say weight doesn't matter on MTBs, but 1.5kg is a sizeable chunk and could easily move a bike from the "steady" to "sprightly" category - especially on undulating terrain.

Not much point comparing bikes which differ by only 1.4kg if the wheels are a totally different size. It will totally be the wheel size that is making the bike faster.

For sure the wheels are the biggest difference and where a lot of the extra speed carrying comes from, but the weight difference was definitely noticeable. Strap nearly 3lb of extra weight to any bike and you'd notice the difference. Obviously there's a how lot more to it, but I think those two points are the biggest difference I noticed from one bike to the other.

Making it lighter would definitely feel faster - particularly if the weight were mostly saved in wheels and tyres. That said I recently rode a 2019 5010 demo bike that had a pike / average ish weight wheels / X01 / Minions front and rear and I thought it pedalled well and felt light. Whether it would actually make you much faster - probably not a huge amount.

I subsequently built up a 2019 5010 frame with a pike ultimate, Xm481 rims on DT 350 / SLX 12 speed / SlX 4 pots etc. Weighed almost bang on 30lbs according to my luggage scales (my Aether 7 weighs 32lbs on the same scales). If you put a light build on that frame I imagine you could get it down to 28lbs.

If you want a startling change I reckon the Izzo is a good call - 29er wheels should roll better over flowing / not too gnar terrain and I think they’ll be lighter than you can ever get the 5010. And it won’t cost so much money in fancy components. Izzo also has a rear shock handlebar lockout I believe so for really pedally flat stuff that could make a difference too.

My (2014) 5010 is 11.5ish KG, it’s a wonderful bike, I’ll likely never sell it, but it wasn’t even close to as good a 12.5KG XC 29er (Pivot Mach429SL) on climbs and XC race type terrain.

My (2014) 5010 is 11.5ish KG

That's phenomenally light. I'm sceptical. What size wheels? Does it have a dropper?

I've got a car on anthem with carbon wheels, very light tyres, no dropper that is around 12.3kg or so.

Faster tyres make the biggest difference.

Minion SS for the rear is a good start.

Plenty of food for thought there, thanks all.
I bought the 5010 before I really knew exactly what type of riding I enjoy best, so although it's a fantastic bike, it just feels a bit overbiked for what I do.
I wish I could afford/have space for 3 bikes but it's a one in one out policy in the shed.
I suspect underforking is a no go, and will change the geometry a little too much, therefore I'll go back to the drawing board.
Lawman- Love the look of the Transition Spur, would love one but the Izzo looks so much more bike for the money.

That’s phenomenally light. I’m sceptical. What size wheels? Does it have a dropper?

Got dropper, wheels are 27.5 enve AM on pro2 evo (1600gish) with 2.3/2.25, fairly light tyres, top end build.

For a steep hill - anything where you'd roll to a stop in a couple of metres or less if you stop pedalling - the effort required to increase the altitude of the overall weight is going to make up most of the resistance that you are facing.

Overall weight being you, the bike, and any kit. For an average bloke on an MTB this is (ballpark) 100kg.
OP admits to his weight fluctuating by 4kg, a full water bladder compared to an empty one is 3kg. I'm sure you can get a kilo of wet mud stuck to your frame this time of year.

Saving weight on the bike is going to make a minimal (1-2%) improvement, which you could match by making a concerted effort to take only essential tools and water you will need (or plan for a midride water tap).

Pedal efficiency (I personally like the VPP for this, YMMV), tyre drag, wheel size and rotating mass inertia are all going to play a bigger part.

Pedal efficiency (I personally like the VPP for this, YMMV)

I find a HT more efficient. 😉 joking aside a HT 29er sounds more ideal.

Love my V2 5010, but I suspect even if I could drop 3kg off it, it still wouldn’t feel sprightly on the climbs. It’s just not that kind of bike. Combination of 27.5 wheels and the suspension feel.
Doesn’t feel bad on the climbs, it just doesn’t egg you on to pedal faster and faster. Better just to sit and gently spin.
Once you point it down or get into the twisties it’s a whole different matter. A lot more capable than its travel suggests, without the wallow of a bigger bike when you’re not flat out.

Santa Cruz always seem to hold their price on the second hand market, so maybe just punt it and get something more suitable.

There's nothing wrong with being overbiked, just ask my G160.

Lawman- Love the look of the Transition Spur, would love one but the Izzo looks so much more bike for the money.

On paper spec, the YT is miles ahead, no doubt about it. It's not all about spec though. There's a couple of things that put me off the Izzo, no doubt good as it is. One is the pressfit BB, that's a big no in my book. Give me threads any day of the week. Second is the cable routing, I may be wrong but the whole lot is internal and I don't think they have guide tubes either, so will be more of a pain to change a cable. More bearings on the Izzo too and the headset is a weird Acros size that seems hard to get in the UK. Lovely looking bike, but too many niggles for me to make the "better" spec worth it.

Lighter wheels and tyres make a big difference to how the bike rolls uphill. Coming from a road background, this is one of the key areas, losing weight at the circumference (hubs don't matter).

If you are already climbing well, maybe just start with a more XC based tyre ? Most of my riding is Peaks and or local tracks and trails, and I'm running Minions which are overkill for most of my riding, until I hit some of the local descents. I'd rather have the grip going down. The Nobby Nic's I've got hung up roll really well on the flat and climbs, but just don't cut it when the camber goes off and it's muddy and slippy.

A 5010 is a damn nice bike.

Other thing is, as suggested, build up an XC HT for said rides ? MrsF has a XC BMC Fourstroke that way lighter than my trail bike, shame it's an XS, and it's only alloy framed with XT and SLX. Not really sure I'd get it much lighter anyway without a big spend can't be much over 12kg with Reverb.

You could easily get a light weight HT for not too much and within the loss on sale of the 5010 and then cost of new bike ?

You could easily get a light weight HT for not too much and within the loss on sale of the 5010 and then cost of new bike ?

e.g.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/xc-900-29-carbon-mountain-bike/_/R-p-300807?mc=8558254
£1500 / 10.5kg

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/xc-500-29-12-speed-mountain-bike/_/R-p-304245
£999

11.3 kg in size S, without pedals.
11.5 kg in size M, without pedals.
11.6 kg in size L, without pedals.
11.8 kg in size XL, without pedals.

10.5kg xc bike for £1500 is fantastic value.
I have a hardtail 29er, which i'm very happy with, so no plans to change that.

10.5kg xc bike for £1500 is fantastic value.
I have a hardtail 29er, which i’m very happy with, so no plans to change that.

My mate got the FS version when they were £1600.... absolute bargain.

I honestly don't think you'll get the 5010 feeling the same and underforking is potentially just "wrecking" a really nice bike.

I use my old 27.5 XC carbon HT for similar rides... wish I had a 29er TBH...