[Closed] UK "All round" full suss standard.

grum - define light. I've seen some of the carbon Whyte hardtails which are definitely light, almost road bike light, but they cost over £3000, something like a Solaris modestly specced is between 12.5kg and 13Kg and about a grand cheaper.

Have you tried a modern 29er?

I'm not pushing them particularly, but you might be surprised how they actually ride. Many of the cliches are not hugely relevant IME.

The 29er Spectral could be spot on for you.

I have ridden a small selection of 29ers and they're just not what tickles me. They ride fine, but just doesn't entertain me. No real reason I guess.

Interestingly, the Spectral comes with the 150mm forks spaced down to 140mm to match the rear. That could be a winner!

Fair enough, it's a mixture of personal preference and the terrain involved I think.

If I would want smaller wheels anywhere, I think it'd be on the tight, twisty southern woodland trails rather than the rockier northen stuff I ride now.

Just skimmed through but a full sus for trail centre red runs??????????????????????????????????????

Get yourself some 120mm forks for the 456C........................

Yes no thank you Rocky IV

^^ I think i caught a glimpse of that as it flew over my head 😀

For me personally it's all about the 650B 120mm full sus at the moment. This was a hoot at Afan and Bike Park Wales. It's off to Penmachno and Betws y Coed this weekend.

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actually an old SC blur 4x sounds ideal really would love a 29er like that

Don't worry about to much travel on the canyon; it's a light, efficient, stiff 150mm. For what it's worth my xc allround bike is a 180/170mm reign and I never think it's too slow/heavy on climbs.

For years I've run burly hardtails as do-it-all bikes (130mm BFe being the most recent iteration).

Have just switched to an Alpine 160 26. Am based in the east anglian flatlands but ride all over from tail centres to Lakes/Peaks/Wales natural stuff.

So far the Alpine is more capable everywhere I've ridden over the BFe. Actually climbs better (very slightly heavier but finds more grip), descends WAY better, and is pretty comparable on the twisty stuff in our local woods.

Might well look like overkill to a lot of folks, but I know that it will handle pretty much anything I'll ever be brave enough to ride.

I guess the moral (if there is one) is go for whatever you feel is right for you regardless of the numbers or any 'rules'.

As a couple of people above have alluded to, most trail centre reds are completely rideable on a capable hardtail, an xc focused full sus or an on trend #enduro bike. All three would climb the climbs and let you ride the descents

They all have different strengths and weaknesses but more importantly they will each FEEL different as they play to their strengths and therefore each will give a subtley different experience (& level of comfort) as a result.

I've got a 26" soul and a 650b bandit. Everything locally is totally rideable and fun on the soul but some places are a quicker climb and a bigger rush back down at higher speed on the bandit. Either is a totally valid choice it depends what mood I'm in.

Bottom line. There isn't a wrong choice. Buy somthing that gets you stoked to ride.

The Kili flyers look fun and there are done around on sale right now

You'll never get a single answer. My big full suss is overkill on paper for red routes but in practice, it's a great laugh on most. But so is my long travel hardtail. Really there's no one best answer, personal taste and style plays a huge part.

For the job you're talking about, the C456 would be pretty ideal IMO (I mostly use a Ragley Ti, same sort of thing) If full suss, people say short travel but I never really found that, there's so little drawback of getting alonger travel bike. Trek Remedy 29 for me I think.

The answer is a Giant Trance.

Now go buy one

Most reds are pretty smooth IMO and any bike will do. In fact sometimes suspension can make them a bit dull. I wouldn't go bigger than 120.

I would say Giant Anthem

Current ride is a On One 456C with 140mm.

I'd try this on a few bike adventures first and see how you get on. Many would argue you already have the UK standard.

Failing that, do some test rides of the bikes on your short list if possible. Many of the trail centres have demo days.

Camber Evo would be the only bike I would own if I lived in the UK again.

Camber Evo would be the only bike I would own if I lived in the UK again.

That might depend where in the UK you lived of course.

Personally I'd go for something with a standard HT2 BB and standard shock mounts.

There are so many bikes that would fit that bill. I've said on a different thread that you're just as well choosing bikes based upon subjective reasons like aesthetics, brand preference, budget etc, than spending hours pouring over geometry dimensions, wheel size pro's and con's etc. there is not really a wrong choice. it's difficult to pigeon hole bikes these days as the boarders between different bike types has blurred. You can get long travel slack angled burley bikes that can do XC well, and lighter, tighter short travel XC bikes that can take on bigger, knarlier terrain.

Also it makes a big difference if you intend to just ride these trails and get round, or looking for jumps or other technical stuff where longer travel and a burlier frame might be of benefit. I would say if the former go for a lighter, tighter traditional XC orientated bike, and if the latter a more All Mountain/Enduro orientated bike.

JCL - Member
Camber Evo would be the only bike I would own if I lived in the UK again.

Probably my next choice, or an anthem 29er - annoying that the SX is in the silly wheel size - or trance - ditto.

But still would love a carbon epic but £4k on a bike?!?

What's the current "UK Standard" for red route trail centre type stuff?
I'm not looking to do enduro/DH/black runs. Just something I can roll up with and be confident in the bike.

Been looking at the Canyon Nerve series for example
https://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3572

120mm travel and a 69.5 head angle - is this a bit on the XC side these days?

On a point of clarification

Isn't a red route at a trail center XC riding?

(I'm not pigeon holing the bike that you use to ride a red at trail center just checking on the words we use describe different types of rising)

Yep

Isn't a red route at a trail center XC riding?

The reds and double reds at FOD are a bit more than XC. When I was there I was the only one with an XC lid and not in proper body armour and had to think about some of the routes more than I would like - on my 120/100mm 26er turner flux and my basic skillset.

When I did the reds and blacks at CDB in 2010 I was fine as it was much less natural and rooty/droppy.

low travel fs is better than a hard tail as you can pump the g-outs more - like a nice pair of carving skis.

No, if it's not downhill it's xc. That's how old I am! 🙂

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Reds are harder than this? (to be honest this wasn't the hard bit just where I was stood)

I could pump my Hard tail better than my Fuel ex.

But I'm rubbish

Reds are harder than this?

Some are, from the looks of it. But then those guys look quite good at bikes. Most people buy outright XC bikes for tamer stuff, personally I'd not choose a racy bike for the average trailcentre- it'd be fast but not necessarily all that fun.

ceepers has some pretty reasonable logic there.

Im in a real good place with my mega TR (130R, 140F, 26", slackened to 66.5 HA massively low bb built light enough (29lb) and tough enough), i've no excuses for being slow on the way up or down, i've no excuse for not making it that long, steep climb just as i've no excuse for not riding full on DH tracks at a reasonable pace and hitting all the gaps either. I've also no excuse for not sprinting flat out on the flatter, undulating stuff either.

That is my interpretation for a bike that is an all round UK bike. Any more travel/weight, it climbs, but isn't a delight, removes nearly all opportunity of properly attacking flatter stuff. Much less travel and weight, things start to break on the proper DH stuff and robs a bit of confidence.

If you've bags of money, look at a santa cruz 5010, little less money, a mega TR or a whyte T130.

A 29er gives you more efficiency, does feel a little different, can be more flexy if you're pushing it, does feel a little higher (comfy). The grip you get with a 29er means you can run slicker tyres and get even more rolling efficiency whilst having the same grip, thats the biggest advantage to me by far, something like a fuel ex 29 or a whyte T129 would be ideal.

I did the whole pedaling around a 150mm+ bike, screw that for a laugh ever again, just robbed too much of the fun too much of the time. Also bear in mind 150mm+ bikes are really meant to be DH bikes you can put up with pedalling back to the top of a hill, despite what 99% of people use them for.

Must admit I've been in the camp for a do it aller. Currently have two bikes in the fold, my YT Tues and my Cotic BFe. The Tues handles DH days and the BFe does anything else.

I've been thinking of getting an Enduro 29 for the everything factor, but then I think about how monster trucky and floaty the DH bike is. With 29er wheels and 160mm travel I don't believe it'll feel any less plush...

Essentially all I can think of is get yourself a demo day at a local spot and see how it goes on a few different bikes. I want something more capable than my BFe but the lesser travel bikes they're churning out at the moment look way too flimsy for what I want it for!

Must admit I've been in the camp for a do it aller. Currently have two bikes in the fold, my YT Tues and my Cotic BFe. The Tues handles DH days and the BFe does anything else.

I've been thinking of getting an Enduro 29 for the everything factor, but then I think about how monster trucky and floaty the DH bike is. With 29er wheels and 160mm travel I don't believe it'll feel any less plush...

Essentially all I can think of is get yourself a demo day at a local spot and see how it goes on a few different bikes. I want something more capable than my BFe but the lesser travel bikes they're churning out at the moment look way too flimsy for what I want it for!

Probably my next choice

Crikey, wrecker that's categorical. I demoed the evo last year and liked it. Loved the Trance 29er too but fed up that this went 27.5

Thm, I thought it a poor bike in all categories. 650 is just another wheelsize. It ain't going anywhere and in terms of industry enforcement is no worse than 29.

It is all about...
The angles
The quality of the suspension

Had 100MM travel full suss operating better than 160mm rear travel

What type of riding do you do wrecker?

Having tested 26 v 29 my mind is/was made up. I have no interest in re-opening wheel sizes again.

I have no problem with 29, it's just preference. I'll ride XC, trail centre, DH, whatever really. I'm no big hucker though.
I just didn't like the camber. Sooner have an anthem or a fuel ex. Sooner again a trance. Worth a try?

Sound similar but I am too wimpy on DH stuff!!

I almost bought the Trance 29 2013 but they sold out, then last years looked goppy IMO. But demoed Trance and Anthem over one weekend and was expecting to love the Anthem (I do) better than the Trance but was surprise how good the Trance was over 2-3 hour rides and more fun on steeper trails. Then it all went 27.5.

On paper the camber evo seems to be a close alternative - although the anthem SX looks brill but for silly wheels again. Perhaps I need to demo a 27.5 to get over my irrationality!!

The sad thing is every time I do a Spesh demo, the bike that gives me the biggest buzz is the epic, I like going uphill fast!!

Ha, I'd hate the epic! I'm also a sucker for an uplift day so our riding is a little different, I get my kicks pointing down.
All I'm saying is choose a bike not a wheel size. Ill demo loads when new bike time comes and buy whatever feels best, be it 650 or 29 or even 26.

Interesting wrecker that you are keen on the trance then - shows how versatile they are.

Last demo day I did I rode two whytes (t and m 29ers), the camber evo and the epic as it was there. Hated the whytes (although great bikes for some)I hated riding them uphill and they did nothing for me going down. But I loved the hidden engine on the epic (!) that allowed me to be first up the hill and great blast down trails. Camber in between. Pretty fast up and great on the down.

We rode the same track for each demo (Holmbury for those that know it) and the difference between the epic and the camber was a cheeky trail next to secret squirrel. One tight, steep corner with roots highlighted the more comfortable camber evo position when it gets a little trickier.

Still last years anthem 29er 1 is on sale and looks good in black.

What was wrong with the Whytes going up? Inefficient, or problems keeping the front wheel down or on-line?

Hard to describe RP because I was pretty certain they would be the ideal bike for me from reviews. For me, they were slow, bouncy, and just no fun riding uphill (plus concur with your observations) and no better on the downs than the other bikes. Little to choose between either version and just left me with a feeling of so what. The rep was as disappointed as me, and a bit niggled that I didn't like either. Good to see him passionate about his brand. Better spec and VFM than the Spesh but not as much fun for me.

I then jumped on an epic and shot up and down the hill with much more fun. The anthem and trances I tried separately also suited me so much better.

I was riding in group of about 20-3o riders. On the whytes I was about 15-20 on the way up, on the epic 1 and the camber 4. On the way down about the same with each bike and fastest on the epic. Apart from the steeper singletrack where the camber felt best, the epic was a joy. But I have come from 7 years riding an XC HT!!!

Thanks that's very interesting. I also thought the T129 (works SCR) looked ideal on paper and all the reviews seem positive, but I'm another weirdo who likes to climb 🙂

The trek fuel ex was another one. Loads of great reviews but I couldn't ride the damn thing. Felt like a wheelbarrow and I kept falling off. Nothing wrong with the bike, just didn't suit me and I have only ever ridden treks!!!

Bikes are simply a personal choice?

A lot of good points made all through the post, and I thank people for the helpful replies.

One of the reason I was drawn to MTB over riding road is that a lot of the market is based on fun over race performance.

To elaborate - take the 456C I currently own. On paper this bike isn't winning any races. Too much travel for XC, not enough out back for enduro. But they're quite a popular bike because they're hilarious to ride. (Disclaimer, I am aware people build their 456C's up "more xc" with shorter travel to race with)

So based on that ethos, I've decided to go for the longer traveling Canyon Spectral at 140mm each end, which should by all accounts be a great bike to ride, over a shorter travel 120mm bike

Good choice I think.