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Thanks for park and ride updates 👍
This. Very much this – start a thread, please!
How much effort does it take to skip reading a post which you're not interested in? No one is forcing you to read the posts about xc/road let alone reply to them so just ignore them and move on without the thread policing. 🙄
Anyway that discussion is pretty much done. Bruce is wrong, but he fails to acknowledge the fact so keeps posting stuff about DH which has bugger all to do with XC 🤷♂️
Bruce is wrong
It's always a distinct possibility. For instance, I've always thought I was a distinctly average mountain biker (at best) and below average when it comes to jumps and drops. However, given your reaction to my comment that most mountain bikers could manage all the a-line features on the course I appear to be some kind of riding god!
let alone reply to them so just ignore them and move on without the thread policing.
Off the charts levels of irony, but sure. It was merely a polite request to save the thread, so I'll happily move on.
Back to the thread (in it's original intention); the track last night was epic!
For instance, I’ve always thought I was a distinctly average mountain biker (at best) and below average when it comes to jumps and drops.
IME most mountain bikers can't do jumps and drops and keep their wheels firmly on the ground. They're more interested in riding in nice places and exploring than cranking up the radness.
Fear not highten discussion has naturally moved to https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mtb-xco-world-championship-course-preview-and-how-to-watch/ so you can go back to talking about parking arrangements and tv schedules 😉
Perfect! Car parks and what to watch are the core issues for me - I'm not really interested on actually riding my bike offroad. It's STW after all! 😉
Rare shot of MvdP with his BOAs intact there.
Hopefully MvdP has got the portaloo locations sorted: https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/cyclist-stops-mid-race-poo-27476052
Aye it looks dead easy doesn't it? Dumbed down for the part timers from the road peloton I suppose.
Agree track has been excellent, the road Mixed Relay TTT was, erm, interesting and I'm just settling down for the Mountain Bike Mixed Relay.
Aye it looks dead easy doesn’t it? Dumbed down for the part timers from the road peloton I suppose.
pfft, it’s so easy the MVdP isn’t even using a dropper!
Aye it looks dead easy doesn’t it? Dumbed down for the part timers from the road peloton I suppose.
Just for me to get an idea of the 'average' STWer, are you saying that there is no way you could ride the features on this course, regardless of practice time and/or bike choice?
Hopefully MvdP has got the portaloo locations sorted:> https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/cyclist-stops-mid-race-poo-27476052
Logs floating in the Clyde are nothing new...
What's happening in MTB? Bit gutted I can't see any of it.
Lunch break over at the Para-cycling, it was Trikes and Handcycles TT this morning, more Handcycles this afternoon.
Just for me to get an idea of the ‘average’ STWer, are you saying that there is no way you could ride the features on this course, regardless of practice time and/or bike choice?
Pre-Olympics, every sport has to have a Test Event - basically make sure the infrastructure, event control etc was all up to standard. I was working on the MTB Test Event at Hadleigh Park, a venue that had come in for a lot of criticism (too flat, too dull, why don't they have it at [insert trail centre], it's not proper MTBing...)
There were various manmade obstacles there including a gap jump, a big rocky drop off etc. All controlled by Olympic regulations re amount of climbing per lap, number and severity of technical features etc.
There were many of the riders themselves who couldn't do some of the technical features and were taking the chicken runs. The gulf in technical ability between the sharp end and the backmarkers was quite noticeable.
They also let various MTB journals, "test riders" etc use it. They were, without exception, worse than even the worst Olympic XCer.
And then before it opened to the public post-Olympics, they removed, or heavily sanitised, everything because it would have been far too dangerous to the public.
crazy-legs
Full Member
What’s happening in MTB? Bit gutted I can’t see any of it.
Just practice. Elite short track is on Thursday evening with the XCO at the weekend
Ignore, forgot about the team relay and didn't know the eeb race was a thing!
Today it's the e-MTB and XC Team Relay.
They also let various MTB journals, “test riders” etc use it. They were, without exception, worse than even the worst Olympic XCer.
I remember an article in Dirt covering it. If I remember correctly, the rider they brought along to ride it and take the pictures of was Brendan Fairclough.
Are you absolutely sure there were no exceptions?
are you saying that there is no way you could ride the features on this course, regardless of practice time and/or bike choice?
Forget STW'ers, I reckon there's going to be quite a number of the peloton in the race that can't/won't do a number of those features. For the record, I'm going to say that I reckon I could ride them, including the gap. Whether I could do it cross-eyed with oxygen depletion is entirely another matter, and I reckon I would need a rest on anything other than the very first lap of the climbing, if I was doing the same number of laps
just settling down for the Mountain Bike Mixed Relay.
Today it’s the e-MTB and XC Team Relay.
Is team relay coverage available online? e-MTB is on BBC later
EDIT - Team relay is on GCN
Edit 2 - it's on BBC as well but maybe only website? not sure about iPlayer app
Have we done the coos yet?
And then before it opened to the public post-Olympics, they removed, or heavily sanitised, everything because it would have been far too dangerous to the public.
I was 'lucky' enough to ride it after the Olympics but before the sanitisation into a trail centre; not sure how but via the club we were allowed on for a session supervised by a BC coach. I just paid a fee and turned up on my Giant Anthem.
We were walked and talked through all the obstacles, given chance to try them out, different lines, etc., including a few times where the coach wouldn't allow some of us to try A lines at all.
I say 'lucky' - even considering myself a reasonable standard rider, I was picking bits of chammy out of my nipsy for weeks after, I was clenching so hard on some of the features.
Forget STW’ers, I reckon there’s going to be quite a number of the peloton in the race that can’t/won’t do a number of those features.
Only the roadies and they just need to train more.
Have we done the coos yet?
The roar in George Square when they came on screen was fantastic
Only the roadies and they just need to train more.
The extreme technicality of modern XC racing has driven all the 'roadies on dirt' out of it, haven't you heard?
Still waiting for someone to come out and say the features on this course are simply beyond their technical ability.
Still waiting for someone to come out and say the features on this course are simply beyond their technical ability.
Yep. I could not ride that.
I tried riding the course for the Glasgow Commonwealth games. Er, no at some parts. I could get round, just not on the fast/direct/big lines.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/3857/14756352276_41d58d592c_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/3857/14756352276_41d58d592c_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/otYaqQ ]Commonwealth Games Mountain Biking Glasgow 2014[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt[/url], on Flickr
Yep. I could not ride that.
Which features could you not ride?
Who is lapping Stirling currently? Helicopter and camera doing a few loops of Dumyat, WallyMolly and Castle area it seems
Still waiting for someone to come out and say the features on this course are simply beyond their technical ability.
Me, any gaps are a no and that big drop I wouldn't been keen on either.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-66439738.amp
There's a bit of concern about the Women's race on Sunday being subject to something similar, possibly worse.
In theory at least, Police Scotland are aware of the plans of protest groups - it's all rather polite where the protesters sort of phone in their plans and the police are on scene reasonably quickly (partly to protect the protesters from reprisals, partly to get them to move on in a timely manner). The protest group from last weekend have publicly said they won't do anything else to disrupt the Championships.
But there's definite concerns for the final day...
Me, any gaps are a no and that big drop I wouldn’t been keen on either.
OK, so it's not a limit in your technical skills?
If they put something in the gaps you could probably clear them?
https://youtube.com/live/eF0I4hnqzM8?feature=share7
Older age groups today, semis and finals coming up.
Could the roadies rock up and win this too?
Could the roadies rock up and win this too?'
Ah, so the features are beyond your abilities too?
All of them or just some of them?
Edit: Shanaze Reid rocked up to the Track and won there so roadies might struggle.
Her BMX victories at junior level include three World, eight European and five British BMX championships. Reade is also a champion track racer, riding on Velodromes. In July 2007 she became the Women's Senior UCI BMX World Champion and at the 2007 UCI Track World Championships,[14] she won the gold in the women's team sprint with Victoria Pendleton. It was only her second track race ever.[15] Not only was she the first ever to win a track championship in her rookie year, she completed the feat after only six weeks of training.[16] She had originally taken up the sport to keep her fit for BMX competition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanaze_Reade
Roberts of Edinburgh, Taylor of Kilbirnie in Ayrshire and Moulin and Kerr, both from Glasgow, pleaded not guilty to the single charge against them.
Edit: Shanaze Reid rocked up to the Track and won there so roadies might struggle.
Surprisingly, BMX translates well to track sprinting. Same sort of explosive power, short hard efforts, super close quarters racing.
Chris Hoy started out BMX racing as well.
Coos?
Gutted I didn't spot these in the UCI Merch Stand at Fort William.
This e-mtb business is a joke. The advocate for it on the BBC was asked why it wasn't just an easier version of the unmotorised mtb and all he could offer was "in some bits there is an option for riders to take a steep uphill bit that needs a motor".
Brucewee- Have you actually seen the features in the flesh, or are you basing your opinion on TV images?
Well, I'm looking forwards to going to Glentress with the kids tomorrow for the Junior XCO races and the XC short track . Would have liked to go Saturday but couldn't get out of work. The largest drop on the XCO (Salmon's leap???) looked pretty rowdy when we had a look a month or so back, especially the potential of coming into it with riders either side. Think we'll stake that out on one of the Junior races if we can.
Has anyone been round the event village at Glentress this week? Just wondering what it's like in terms of getting a bite to eat between races, or whether to ride out to Peebles/Innerleithen with kids in tow.
Brucewee- Have you actually seen the features in the flesh, or are you basing your opinion on TV images?
No, getting there isn't really practical from where I'm living these days.
But yeah, I'm well aware of jumps and drops being considerably larger in real life. I remember spending a few days in Glentress trying to improve my jumping. By the end I'd cleared pretty much everything and it felt like I was going huge. Then Earthed 4 came out with a segment on the exact jumps I had been practicing on and, lets just say, my monster jumps were actually kiddies playthings for decent riders.
I'm watching the XC on GCN and I think they've found particularly poor camera angles for the big features though. They look much smaller than they do in the onboard lap on the other thread.
If they put something in the gaps you could probably clear them?
Unlikely, I'd just ride round it or get off and push.
OK, my assessment of the "features", being based locally and having walked them recently.
- Orders of magnitude more difficult that anything in the old freeride area (in your video). If it takes you days of practice to clear the jumps there, then you are a long long way from attempting the XC features.
- More than the difficulty level is the degree of intimidation and exposure.
- The rock drop section in the Go Ape carpark requires massive commitment as you pretty much need to hop into it.
- The gap is big but relatively simple, consequences of not making it are massive though.
The gap is big but relatively simple, consequences of not making it are massive though.
See the Instagram post I linked to earlier!
Edit: here it is again.
If it takes you days of practice to clear the jumps there, then you are a long long way from attempting the XC features.
Well, it took me a couple of days to clear everything back in 2006.
What improved my jumping way more than any amount of trying things out in GT was doing a my first DH race. The gaps were there and had to be done so I did them (had to defend that 3rd to last place). Taking the time to get the technique down and then being forced by into overcoming the mental block of gaps by racing meant jumping stuff I never thought to attempt before was very doable.
What do you mean by 'Orders of magnitude more difficult'. I see a tricky entry into the salmon ladder, but at the same time so long as you at least have some momentum you can keep rolling. Apart from that I'm not seeing tricky entries or landings to the features but not being there I may be missing something.
If, as you say, the main problem is the intimidation and exposure then that's another thing. And of course the consequences.
My original comment all those moons ago that dragged me into this particular circle of hell was that most STWers could manage the features.
I should, of course, have explicitly caveated this by saying that this statement assumed the STWer in question had:
a. Ridden a mountain bike before.
b. Learned and practiced to some extent how to intentionally allow their wheels to leave the ground.
c. Had time to practice the features on their favourite bike wearing whatever protective gear they felt they needed.
All I was trying to say was that most mountain bikers (who ride mountain bikes and who have at some point learned how to intentionally let their wheels leave the ground) could manage these features from a technical perspective. Overcoming the mental blocks of the gaps and exposure and doing it when your blowing out your arse is a different matter.
If we accept that most mountain bikers (given the caveats above) could manage the features (given the caveats above) then I don't think it's too much of a stretch that a highly talented fulltime pro athlete could learn to also manage the features in a relatively short period of time. And given the assumption they could learn to manage the features they could probably do well in an XC race given that XC races are primarily won in the climbs.
That's it. That's what I meant with that stupid ****ing 'most STWers...' comment.
I could be entirely wrong in many of my assumptions and my statement could have therefore been entirely bollocks. I'm extrapolating from my own experience of normal mountain bikers and I 100% accept that others will have very different opinions of the skill level of normal mountain bikers.
Cool, for what its worth I'm happy to ride pretty much everything in the Tweed Valley, Fort Bill DH (with the exception of the biggest features), Dunkeld, etc.
The rock drop is a hard no. Simple as. Its an awkward entry around large rocks and you need enough speed to be effectively jumping into it to avoid hinging up on the lip. But not too much so you would land at the bottom. It would likely be deemed too much for a national level enduro.
The gap jump is probably of a similar size to the Hazzard Hoofer at Fort William.
Just for reference
And the chicken line for the gap jump - which wasn’t quite a roll though.
The rock drop is a hard no
Is that the one they're calling the Salmon Ladder (igm's second picture up there)?
If so that's quite surprising as that's one that I would have put down as intimidating but probably not too bad once you're on the way down. I was watching the relay race earlier and saw an Austrian woman (I think) stall coming in and then bail out down the B-line. Right after came a Swiss woman (I think) who stalled but did a dab right at the top and then managed to roll into it safely. Not something I would have had the balls to do, I am absolutely certain.
The entry does look very awkward and it has the potential to be carnage if riders are tightly packed coming into it.
Right after came a Swiss woman (I think) who stalled but did a dab right at the top and then managed to roll into it safely. Not something I would have had the balls to do, I am absolutely certain.
Whilst clipping back in - total respect to her.
Has anyone been round the event village at Glentress this week? Just wondering what it’s like in terms of getting a bite to eat between races, or whether to ride out to Peebles/Innerleithen with kids in tow.
There are plenty of food truck options in the event village. Most congregated around the Peel Building (big square wooden building at the highest point of the village) and some on the way up from the Alpine Bikes shop.
Was there yesterday and it was pretty good, even the e-bikes. Despite having a motor, you could see they were still giving it full gas up the main climb, and there were some very awkward additions to the climb to make the most of having a motor. It's still bike racing, still exciting to watch.
The features look great. Saw a Honduran rider come off the Salmon Drop - he got substantial cheers every lap thereafter. A lot of the features are going to be tricky with multiple riders coming to them together. I suspect riders will practice a couple of lines in case they get forced wide or stuck queueing for the main line. I think the difficulty of the features isn't super high, but the consequences of getting them wrong are very high. That will surely come into play after a few laps when your legs are burning and heart rate is through the roof.
The rock drop is a hard no
The entrance to this is mossy and rooty, and from the saddle the rock seems vertical. There's a gap that requires a wee pull up on the bars as your front wheel hits the rock, and it's nothing like as long as the salmon ladder, but given that this is natural, and the salmon ladder is made to be ridden, I don't think I'd have any worries.
I agree with @BruceWee though, the thing that improves these sorts of skills is being "forced" to do them.
[humblebrag] I've been lucky enough to spend a few days in Whistler a couple of times, and first ride even the "tamer" trails seem huge. There's a jump at the end of a blue called "heart of darkness" that's pretty wide and tall, at first it seems ridiculous, by end of day two I was trying to work out where to gain speed on the run up, as I was certain I could clear it...[/humblebrag]
@nickc I think the one on the Glentress XC is considerably steeper. Watching it yesterday everyone’s bum was a lot higher than their shoulders. In your shot they are roughly level. Look at the photo I posted above for example.
And the salmon ladder (if that’s what we’re calling it) goes straight into a 90 right then a decent sized drop.
If it helps the drop you’ve pictured is probably closer to the chicken line difficulty level. (The salmon ladder chicken line is particularly entertaining)
Could I ride the one on the XC course? Probably
Could I race it? Different question
Race it on an XC race bike? That would be a no
Race it on an XC race bike?
Looking at the bikes from the relay race, they look more Downcountry than what I would have thought of as X-country.
Nino Schurter's handlebars being the exception. I don't know what you'd call them.
Nino Schurter’s handlebars being the exception. I don’t know what you’d call them.
Upside down risers?
Slightly off topic perhaps but I've been impressed with ScotRail. Used them extensively this week to get between Edinburgh, Glasgow city centre and the velodrome. Frequent trains, lots of capacity.
Nice one
(Hope I'm not jinxing it too soon as we still have a few trips planned yet)
Has anyone used the park and rides around Peebles yet? I appreciate that it'll be loads busier tomorrow and particularly Saturday, but just curious to know if the buses are working ok.
<p>It may have been done earlier in the thread, but am alone in being mildly tickled by the fact there is a French C2 competitor called Chapeau…? Chapeau Chapeau</p>
Bit of a shame the Junior XCO is not being broadcast at all... Women out on track currently.
Hopefully the Junior XCO will be on iPlayer later.
And most impressive that Charlie Aldridge got fastest lap out of everyone yesterday, which hopefully bodes well for the U23 race. 16 seconds faster than Nino, who can't have been holding too much back as he had Sarrou chasing him down.
I think the one on the Glentress XC is considerably steeper.
Yeah, I don't doubt it, it looks plenty steep. But the technique is the same, once you can roll into a rock drop, you can roll into all of them. I reckon most folks could do it (whether they think they could or not) with just a bit of coaching.
Mathieu van der Poel x Matt Stephens | First interview as Road Race World Champion
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once you can roll into a rock drop, you can roll into all of them.
Sounds so easy when not sat at the top of something pearing over the edge.😉
Nah, just go, if you're peering over the edge you might have time to think about all the things that could go wrong... 🤣
Oh man, living in Calderdale moved my riding on so much since then. (that's where that picture's from) 👍
Cool.
Can't beat constant exposure to harder trails to up your skills.
Back on topic.
We're off to watch the short course later this avo.
Got some free tickets for being local.😂
Like slowing down after it or not falling off the exposed switchback after it
Yeah saw that clip, nightmare for the rider, This is going to be the place to watch the race on the first lap, for sure.
Can’t beat constant exposure to harder trails to up your skills.
Or ride with folks who know what they're doing and help you along 👍
Mathieu van der Poel x Matt Stephens | First interview as Road Race World Champion
That's a great video. Thanks for sharing.
That’s a great video.
"Woffer biscwit"
Really hope the short course is on the iPlayer later. Men's field is stacked!
5.30pm for mens short track, womens after. Definitely on TV - cant wait!
🔴L I V E ~ 2023 UCI CYCLING WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS - MOUNTAIN BIKE CROSS-COUNTRY - Livestream - YouTube
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Puck Pieter's is awesome!
Really hope the short course is on the iPlayer later. Men’s field is stacked!
I could be wrong but sure I recall hearing that MVdP has never lost a world cup short course.
Just when you think the discussion has finally come to an end......
The Junior men XCO winner also won the road race!
For those who struggle to manual..
BMX flatland is on IPlayer.
If you like Puck Pieterse
https://www.youtube.com/@puckpieterse02/videos