So I'm looking for new tyres and the one thing I'd like to avoid at all costs is that horrible unpredictability of tyres that suddenly decide they like lying down in a bend. I can cope with most stuff - slipperyness on roots/rocks etc, but that horrible feeling of your buttocks gnawing at your saddle as you teeter round an off-camber bend that you used to be able to do at full tilt with your old tyres is frustrating.
So what is it with tyres that give that wash-out effect. It seems like the "endless edge" of the contis should cure it, but then the fire xcs have a nice spikey stud design that should too, assuming the studs dont fold over. I've been unable to avoid my mudmad DH tyres for all-round use as I've not found a tyre that grips better in corners and slippery stuff, but they weigh in at nearly 900g.
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For some reason I seem to "get on" with spikey tyres, like the fire xc seems to be, and shy away from things like the maxxis advantage which intuitively looks less grippy to me. But now I'm trying to find the moon on stick good all-rounder that rolls well and my conclusions have come back to the fire xc despite its spikey mud DH lookilikey appearance. Allterrain are doing a deal on folding fire XC 2.1s at the moment, I might splash out on a pair and see, they'll probably re-sell well if I dont get on with them.
Get some highrollers and concentrate on your weight transfer points, (inside bar and outside pedal). Single plys are fairly light and quick rolling.
conti's are the only tyre i've ever washed out on, it was conti flow 2.3 or 2.4s, granted they have a low profile tread but i hated those tyres.
Hmmmmm. I've never been impressed by the mud tyre/dry tyre/winter tyre/summer tyre thing, and I reckon that tyre performance is about 10% actual and 90% imagined.
I'm sure people will be along to tell me I'm not riding quick enough, or I'm not real mountain biker, or that I'm too dim to appreciate the difference, but there you go.
If you like spiky tyres, buy a spiky tyre.
See the highrollers "look" slippery to me, I know its all pointless saying they "look" something as its a differnt matter, but how many people have tried all the tyre types rather than just choosing the one they have tried and stuck with? Hard to tell. The high-rollers look like they'd step out to me, due to that fairly square profile? I dont think tyre performance is 90% imagined, having swapped my tyres for some old ritchey megabites I re-did llandegla and nearly died (ok, exaggeration!) on several occasions despite changing pressures to try to find a sweet spot - none of it gripped like my mudmads, despite the mud tyres not really being designed for wet hardpack trails.
[i]conti's are the only tyre i've ever washed out on, it was conti flow 2.3 or 2.4s, granted they have a low profile tread but i hated those tyres. [/i]
Only washing out on one brand of tyre? I've washed out on every tyre I've used!
See the highrollers "look" slippery to me, I know its all pointless saying they "look" something as its a differnt matter, but how many people have tried all the tyre types rather than just choosing the one they have tried and stuck with? Hard to tell. The high-rollers look like they'd step out to me, due to that fairly square profile?
I have those mud mads for racing (DH) and find they're great in mud but frikkin lethal on wet roots compared to an intermediate tyre. High rollers have far more grip assuming the conditions allow them to stay clear of mud.
The square profile does require a different cornering technique.
I find Contis bad for it - which is a shame as otherwise I really like them. No warning - they just go
😀 I've got used to the wet roots meaning you step a foot in either direction, because they usually grip again and you're ok 🙂 How does the cornering technique differ exactly? I'm not sure I think about my cornering when I do it?!
High rollers or comp 16/24's - one tyre all year regardless of weather conditions
solamanda - Member
conti's are the only tyre i've ever washed out on, it was conti flow 2.3 or 2.4s, granted they have a low profile tread but i hated those tyres.Only washing out on one brand of tyre? I've washed out on every tyre I've used!
Well I'm just your regular trail centre type rider, I don't race so I guess don't push my tires as much as some others but those conti's were terrible. I only bought them to reduce the rotating weight on my 06 enduro for a merida, tried them the week before at innerleithen and wiped out on the first decent.
Currently have super tacky high rollers, have lots of faith in them, even just looking at them they look grippy.
I just read on MTBR that with the high rollers you need to be cornering hard before they bite, theres an in-betweeny section that slips. That doesnt sound ideal?
That sounds like MTBR BS to me...
Ok so that will be the bit that i try to corner on then,,,
[note to self]must attack the corner and not mince round it[/note to self] 😳
I know MTBR does tend to be ful of da rok ard DH teenz wit attitude, usually making zero sense and reviewing after 2 minutes use. I think I may have to bite the bullet and just start ordering tyres and reselling to find out!
I don't like Panaracer Fire XC's or any Contis that I've used. although I inadvertantely made the conti twisters I have far better than they ever were with the use of a stanley knife. All Maxxis that I've used have been grand.
Tioga Blue Dragon, replaced my XC pros and I prefer them
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all tyres are going to break away at some point but I tend to judge them on how easily you can pull the slide back in with a twitch of the knee/bars
intense system 4 DC for drier conditions
predictable: high rollers
It seems the cat is indeed amongst the pidgeons now. How can I make an informed decision with contradicting advice!? 😀
Looks like I can get the folding version of the fire xc for the same price as teh blue dragons which have god-aweful reviews mmw?
I find my Fire XCs are pretty predictable and generally provide more grip that I have guts for.
When they do 'let go' it's generally on stuff that I think most tyres would struggle with.
Have you tried Speed Kings. I think they are good allrounders, but the knobs get totally shredded on predominantly rocky rides.
Never tried speed kings but they were on my list of options until everyone started telling me contis are useless?! Are the fire XCs fast rolling or do they pay for their grippiness with spongey accel (the blurb would suggest they're fast but I trust users over manufacturers lol).
In addition to the ubiquitous High Rollers, you might like Nevegals or Mountain Kings.
I find them both pretty good all-rounders and not particularly prone to washing out.
Whatever you do don't get Nobby Nics!
Nothing wrong with Nobby Nics!
Bear in mind coffeeking, that mrmichaelwright could ride slicks and be OK in most conditions 🙂
😳
missed your reply CK
I likes them :shrugs:
when I was researching what to buy, I looked at MTBR and SURPRISE SURPRISE the reviews are either very good or very poor! I based my decision on tread pattern, materials and gut instinct plus some of the comments from mtbr. they certainly aren't a 'freeride lite' tyre as tioga seem to thing. what they are is a handy tyre for uk slop and grime over various surfaces. they do puncture rather readily though as nickc will confirm but only on really rocky stuff at speed which is not what I bought them for.
oh I also had some tioga mud tyres that were very good so thought I'd try another of their products.
at the time xc pros were let down by their rubber compound.
All the Continentals ive had until recently seemed to be made of harder compound rubber than other tyres, making them less grippy particularly when wet. The new "black chilli compound they're using on some tyres is a big improvement though, if you want conti's i'd make sure they're made with that. I thought Nobby Nics were awful in corners, really poor.
My FS has a Nobby Nick up front and a Gravity on the rear at the moment. I am starting to thank my lucky stars I have made it round any corners 😉
i thought my nobby nics were excellent but i've only used them once so far
continental vert pros are the worst tyre I have ever used.
Tyre choice, very much horses for courses...
I think Nobby Nics flatter to decieve, they roll really fast, and grip ok on normal terrain but the nobs are far too small to grip when things get more technical or you're leaning them in corners. That's what I felt any way.
best tyre i've tried in corners is a highroller, bonty tires, like big earl, acx and mudx are not too bad
worst in corners is nobby nic, very fussy on psi setting and also because its actualy fairly grippy and good all rounder you expect it to be ok in corners, unfortunatley its unpredictable and has a tendency to let go randomly or not track as expected, fairly leathal on grass or loose stone terrain and fairly random on everything else.
I do rather like high rollers on my Pitch, after trying the tryes it came with (Specialized Eskars) that were shite, then conti mountain kings, went from good in the dry to damm right scary when they wore a bit, to Ignitors which are very good on hardpack and in the dry but a bit pants on more rooty stuff (I do lie them on my HT - probably cos I'm not as aggressive on that) and now I'm stuck on a HR Super Tacky on the front and a HR Maxpro on the Rear.
I'll probably put a Larsen TT on the rear when it dries out a bit more and for trail centre use (especially Llandegla).
During the winter I've been using Bonty Mud X's in 2.0" on my HT and they're bloody brilliant in the mud, on wet roots and in the generally crap conditions we've had this winter
mrmichaelwright - Membercontinental vert pros are the worst tyre I have ever used.
+1
I've been to 2 wars and skied down a 40 degree ice sheet on fat powder skis with blunt edges. I've never been so scared as riding a normally average rooty trail in the wet on those POS tyres. Threw them in the bin.
I'm quite impressed with my panaracer rampage just now. weight is o.k, if pumped up it rolls quick, grips really good and blows up big. Prefer it to the high roller just now, on front anyway
devs - Membermrmichaelwright - Member
continental vert pros are the worst tyre I have ever used.
+1
I've been to 2 wars and skied down a 40 degree ice sheet on fat powder skis with blunt edges. I've never been so scared as riding a normally average rooty trail in the wet on those POS tyres. Threw them in the bin.
I like Conti Verts, although they are very much a dry tyre.
Just as a counter, i found Conti Mountain Kings awful in the wet, be it mud or rocks. But like Speed Kings and even Race kings.
+1 on Conti verts - they were fine as long as it was graded trail and you only went in a straight line. Lethal on anything else.
I like panaracer xc props for grip and rolling, but their carcass is puncture prone, Nokian NBX's were going, but its difficult to get them in the right size/weight combo. For general dry/intermediate riding, my current favs are the kenda bluegroove and nevegal - a nevegal on the front is not a good thing though.
I've recently out a high roller on the rear wheel, and iI'm very impressed with it, Loads of edge grip, which suits the way I ride and surprisingly better rolling than the tread would suggest off-road. Pretty draggy on tarmac though.
All tyres will wash out giving the right speed/agression/terrain and weighting of the bike.
But weighting the bike well and the right tyre pressure will help alot.
Panaracer Rampages have felt the worse for me on loose dusty trails with the wrong pressures, some tyres have quite a tall square profile which obviously doesn't help, so look for something with a more rounded edge.
High rollers, best tyres I have ever ridden, they give you so much confidence through corners
What size mud mads are you running?
If you like that tread pattern swampthings are 600g in a 2.1 and a very similar tread pattern to the mud mads, not much use to you now, but a worn down swampthing doesnt roll as bad as people say and still has loads of grip, most importantly it will be worn in the middle so it rolls better but the side knobs will still be there for your cornering. Does step out on roots a bit, but as you have said your used to that, the predictable cornering takes a bit of beating.
best tire ever, maxxis swampthing, 2.1, with the center cut off on the rear.
worst (cornering) tire ever, the new specialized enduro, it has no shoulder grip!
The tyres I use as an 'all round' set up here in the Clwydians are Bonty Jones ACX, 2.3 front with a 2.2 out back.
They've got small evenly placed studs so they avoid that intermediate slip you get on Maxxis tyres as you move from the large central knobs to the outside cornering knobs.
They're also pretty light for the size, tubeless compatible, clear mud easily, roll well and have a softer compound of rubber on the outside edges to help cornering.
I can honestly say that I've tried tyres from most manufacturers and these are by far and away the best tyres for my riding here in N.Wales. I counted my tyres last week as I'm going to have to try and flog them soon as they are getting in the way. I've got 32 tyres at my place and another 20 odd at my Mum and Dads. Anybody interested in a load of tyres from WTB, Michelin, Bontrager, Maxxis, Geax, Continental, Schwalbe, Onza, Panaracer and probably a couple of other makes that I've forgot about?
's funny - I like Conti Verts.
I think that the problem lots of people have with them is that they're very drifty.
My definition of 'wash out' is a sudden break of grip and I'd say that's the total opposite of verts. I reckon that they drift (ie start to slide a bit) very early but that it's very predicatable unlike some other tyres which have much more grip but once they 'wash out' they really slide lots and very suddenly.
Lots of people don't like the feeling of their bike moving underneath them and that isn't going to be a good combination with verts, hence why they don't like them. Those of us who don't mind the bike moving so long as it's very predictable (like me!) will probably like them.
Try Nokian NBXs. Nice tyre.. especially the 2.0 but it's not really a wet condition tyre.. :/
Flippin eck Jim the saint, I thought I had too many sets!!
I would love to try the Bonty Jones, they doo look a good tyre, and I like the look of the Maxxis crossmark too for dry stuff, but I wont be buying any tyres for a bit myself I got a few seasons worth I need to wear out.
jim the saint - Member
They've got small evenly placed studs so they avoid that intermediate slip you get on Maxxis tyres as you move from the large central knobs to the outside cornering knobs.
Which Maxxis tyres? Highrollers? - try Minion fronts, they blow away a HR for all round use IMO
oh, if any of your 50+ tyres happen to be Minion fronts or Bling Blings I'd be interested in buying them.
Seriously, you need to try some high rollers. The only time I take mine off is for full on, seriously muddy dh. I prefer wet screams for that, or for longer distance jaunts I'll go for a panaracer rampage because they are relatively light. They are useless in corners though, the sidewalls flex all over the place on tech sections and pinch protection is terrible.
High rollers allow you to corner so much more aggressively than virtually any other tyre out there - there is a reason why they are the tyre of choice for virtually every world cup dh racer - predictability. Even racers/entire teams sponsored by other tyre brands run HRs with the logos blacked out. And you'll notice that virtually every tyre manu has brought out a replica of sorts.
The break away sensation that people are refering to happens at speed, deep into a corner when you are leaning the bike. If you can percieve it at all it just feels like a mili second of acceleration, followed by more controllable grip thanks to the huge side lugs, that's what they are there for.
Great tyre for 90% of conditions. I've been running them for years. Some riders never push them to the point where they excel so they cant see what the fuss is about.
If you are the type of rider who attackes the trail, carves corners, drifts and has fun doing it or you want to be then get them. If you're the type of rider who just about survives a trail, ie bolt upright, stop starting on the brakes, clipped in, panics and bails at the mere sight of something fast and rough then they probably are not for you.
As for minions - I think most people would struggle to discern any difference between them and HRs other than the latters lower rolling resistance.
Well thankyou all for contributing to yet another what-tyre thread, I am going to think hard on it and may end up with different tyres front and back. Think I'm going to avoid conti's as I dont like my front end drifting - i prefer it to go where I point it without question (dont care what the rear does so long as its following somewhere). I might end up with 1 fire xc and one highroller so I can try them front and rear and see how I prefer them - it would make sense to me that a good tyre for the front is likely to be very different to a good tyre at the rear and I suspect a front tyre would suit being more rounded, so it might make sense to go fire front, HR rear.
tinsy - 2.25 mudmad. Honestly cant fault it but its being worn down at a rate of knots and they're a tad heavy, I like them for more hardcore riding so I want to save them for that. I'll take a peek at the swampthings too, see how they look.
This is a great excuse to try lots of new things, I like it!
Gnar - maybe most would, but IME minions don't break away unexpectedly on off-cambers in the same way a HR can. oh, and if you like HRs, try a michy comp 16, similar (since Maxxis blatantly copied them) but grippier (also slower rolling tho) and if tubeless is your thing they're quite possibly the best tubeless tyre ever made.
Been a bit slow in relpying.....
Fire XCs seem to roll fast (well, fast in my limited experience of tyres). They are the ones that I put on if I want to go for a bit of a training ride on the road and to be honest, unless it's really manky I keep them on all the time. In thick, gloopy mud i find they clog quite badly.
The Speed Kings have fairly widely spaced knobs but seem to grip well. I think because the knobs are quite small and so widely spaced they also roll well, but they do wear really quick in rocky situations. Also, I really struggle to get Continental tyres off the rims of my wheels and it puts me off putting them on. I originally bought the Speed Kings for doing the Twentyfour12 on, but woulnd't use them again as getting a puncture with them on is a real ordeal.
[i]GW - Member
Gnar - maybe most would, but IME minions don't break away unexpectedly on off-cambers in the same way a HR can. oh, and if you like HRs, try a michy comp 16, similar (since Maxxis blatantly copied them) but grippier (also slower rolling tho) and if tubeless is your thing they're quite possibly the best tubeless tyre ever made. [/i]
I've got minnions on the big bike - I cant discern much difference but that might just be the way I ride. Brand new minnions do seem to give better all round grip but that leaves them after a few runs imo.
Continental are bringing out a hr copy too, apparently grippier, stickier, rolls better and lasts longer. Expensive though.
Nearly had a horrid crash on a hired "5" with 2.2 Mountain Kings. On a fast, muddy corner, got it a bit wrong and then the bike just went wibbly as both tyres lost it. Somehow managed to stay upright and stopped to recover! Was a nervous wreck after that.
Don't know why, but Maxxis seem to have the best cornering grip in softer corners IMO. Advantage roll OK too and to me, seem way better than their price/compound suggests - no idea why.
I find Panaracers good for goiing fast in fair-good conditions or trail centre XC.
crikeyThat sounds like MTBR BS to me...
Yes, nearly as much BS as written on here 😳
FYI - My new Rubber Queens are the best I've tried for all round use, as good as my HR's for DH and lighter for general use. I was nearly wiped out completely by a set of Conti verts on wet roots years ago, so these are my first foray back to Conti's but well impressed so far - very progressive change from upright to leant over.
Does this mean the Conti Flow UST 2.3s that I picked up cheap the other week will try to kill me?
Apparently so 🙂 Try them and let us know!