Turbo Trainer Workouts - What do you do?

Oh and i'm thinking 30 - 60 mins per session. I get well bored after that.

I'm on Rouvy.

I tend to do workouts first thing in the morning when I don't have time for much more than 30 mins. There are loads of new ones under the Visma and Lidl Trek categories that are around 30 mins so those are great.

I generally just do a mixture but training plans are available on there.

Oh, and before you start with them you will need to do some form of FTP text.

3x turbo AND the club ride is asking for trouble unless you make one indoor ride very low intensity (read up on Z2, basically can you hold a conversation on the phone without the person on the other end knowing you're exercising? THAT easy).

In order to cover all my bases my indoor work sort of hits the intensities I don't hit outdoors, most of my outdoor stuff (4-6hr gravel or road at the weekend) is Z2 or low-sweetspot, so my indoors is the upper end stuff, so 30/30 intervals (2x10) and threshold intervals (4x8).

Check out Dylan Johnson on YouTube who does a video on 'Best Intervals'.

I start each session with a 20 minute BC warmup, but neither workout exceeds 1hr in total. I haven't done an FTP test so just used the first few sessions as 'practice' while I found a sustainable pace/power. No harm in that I figured, good way to break yourself in to intervals.

Sweet spot sessions aren't a bad starting point to just get in shape - they're below threshold so won't build up big fatigue, but are hard enough to elicit a good training response:

https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/sweet-spot-training-everything-you-need-to-know/

Some above threshold work is also a good idea for the older rider. Why do older cyclists ride so slowly? Because they ride so slowly. IOW if you never push anaerobic efforts you really will lose the ability to ride fast.

Overall if you want measurable gains you need progression - likely true of any sport. You don't just do the same workout every week, you build it slightly harder. But at this point in time it sounds like you'll do best just trying a few different types of workout and events on Rouvy and see what you like.

I never understand this thought process, you don't get out riding enough in it's best form so instead you're going to do something tedious and awful three times a week. You're also now going to over analyse how bad to make it. Why not just go outside three times a week? Or even just twice has got to be better than making what you haven't got the spark for, even worse?!

I will caveat this by saying I've already done the zwift thing for several years and it made it just about bearable as an alternative to outdoors. I've now sold the turbo completely and I just go outdoors, even if I only do 20 miles when I go out I'd still rather go out for an hour than sit on a turbo for an hour.

Golfchick - I hear you, but i'd rather do a 45min turbo session indoors with some decent tunes on than head out into the cold, wind and rain. I hate riding on the road so outside tends to be mtb or gravel only which equates to 3 x loads of muddy clothes to contend with too. The turbo is also easy to fit in with other stuff.

Zwift user here - yes, I'd rather be outside but there's only so much cold, wet and dark riding I can take (I also have a job).

I tend to hop into their 30-60 min workout section and pick one at random, if I like it I copy it and add it to my workouts or custom or whatever it is. I look at the scoring to make sure it is as hard/easy as I want and also have a couple of recovery workouts saved for those days I fancy a pedal but the legs aren't feeling switched on.

I also do the occasional group ride / event to mix it us - Tour de Zwift is on at the mo - those rides are more engaging and encourage me to push myself a bit more, in fact last night's one improved my FTP.

Smart training chats usually get way too complicated very quickly, I see complication as one step away form an excuse to not get on the trainer! So keep it simple

 I keep reading i need to know what my goals are, but they are simply “get fitter”

You are in luck, there is a training plan in Rouvy called Get Fitter. It is based around 45min or so sessions, x3 per week. I'm three weeks into this. Every now and again there are much longer workouts, I skip these as I get too bored. I also tag the workouts I like as favourites, then, when I finish the training plan, I'll just use these for continued training.

Do a 20min FTP test (in Rouvy) before you start the training plan as this serves as your baseline and tells the training plan how hard to work you. Then follow the training plan for a few weeks until complete. Then do a new FTP test to see how much fitter you are.

Only other thing to make sure you do is calibrate your smart trainer, I do this every couple of weeks, it only takes a minute or so to do

Zone 2 using TrainerDay which controls the erg to maintain target HR.

Zone 2 will allow you to more volume without injury, do some reading about it. It is fairly dull but I watch a film.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/zone-2-training-for-endurance-athletes/

I am a big fan of Wahoo SYSTM, some great work outs on there including some of the old Sufferfest stuff, lots of documentaries even some old cycling films with accompanying work outs. Plus the strength training and weirdly the yoga have been great.

Is it riding outside, no, but it is the quickest way to fitness i feel especially if time is short, plus there is nothing like sitting on a turbo for 3 hours straight on a rainy night to make you appreciate riding outdoors in the sun

I've done very little in the way of workouts since long covid began Oct '22, despite having a ballpark idea of my FTP (~100W and ~2W/Kg down on Jul '22), for fear of pushing through a workout and then suffering a massive fatigue crash in the days/week afterwards. But I've come to a point where I feel I've got nothing to lose, so I'm going to start using ERG workouts regularly on my Saris H3 bought at Easter '22 and I've literally just switched it over to bolt thru for my road bike for the first time (to help build up my upper back and shoulder muscles that suffered outdoors on the road bike last Friday).

When I've had time before a race https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/le-col-training-with-legends/sir-bradley-wiggins-ultimate-warm-up

Depends where you are fitness wise, but https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/back-to-fitness plan might be a good start, where you perhaps supplement it with some freeriding after the workouts, which are ~30mins long iirc.

Ignore tha plan name, but https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/baby-on-board is another good starter plan for men and women, I used to do a handful of the workouts as fun little sessions without sticking to the plan order.

https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/tt-tuneup plan is one of the better plans on Zwift IMO, because workouts don't randomly jump all over the shop, they usually focus on specific intervals. The workload ramps up massively around week 5, do not increase your FTP estimate part way through like I did in Feb '20. During the plan and until getting covid for first time in late March '20, my stamina for cycling grew massively.

But first, you need to get an FTP ballpark...
A ramp test will roughly get there, but you might find it overestimates your ability.
Zwift now offers "smart" estimates from riding anywhere fort ~10mins+, rather than just on the "Oh No Hill" incline, overestimates for me but ymmv.
Do a 20min max effort and use 95% of the average. Easier to judge with practice.
Join a flat TT on somewhere flat like Tempus Fugit, start ~50W under your FTP guess and evaluate every ~5mins (too hard; just about hanging on to do 20mins at this power; there's more to give?). Use 95% of best 20mins.

Especially in the early days, don't do too many threshold z4+ days, max of two per week in total from your indoor and outdoor riding.

If you have no specific goals then getting on the bike consistently is far more important than which intervals you do. Use whatever the recommended FTP test is on the app that you like to use to set a baseline, then just have a play with what you have the time/motivation for. I personally find if I've been off the turbo for a whil, one sweet spot session a week and one VO2 a week gets me started and then I can build/tweek from there.

I'd definitely second what others have said about taking it easy at first - 3 hard interval sessions a week is a big jump and you might find yourself regretting it a few weeks in.

In winter 30 minutes mid week, bored stupid after that. No plan just spin away enough at a steady pace to get sweaty in the house before heating goes on. Definitely feel the benefit when out at weekend. But I also do 10 mins yoga/ stretching every day and 30 push ups. Not in a sedentary job and ride every weekend either MTB or 30/40 miles on gravel bike or am hill walking in Lake District. Still feel pretty good at 54 and happily keep up with riding buddies.

Oh and resistance band exercises every day for wonky elbow and stave off chicken arms.

I am using trainerroad which provides a structured program with workouts planned in a calendar, and has an adaptive intensity thing so it doesn't blow you up cos you are too keen in the first 2 weeks doing intervals and then have to take 2 weeks off w a cough.

Worth taking a look as you can plan your week with it and know what you're doing so it is easy to overcome the inertia and get on the bike. it tells me what i am doing so i don't have to think about it too hard

I'd go as far as to say 3x per week is too much if you're doing them properly. You'd get more benefit doing maybe 2 and then doing a long ride at the weekend.

In simple terms

Z2 - the pace you could ride at all day until you run out of energy, it's harder than you think but not hard enough that you'll ever feel it in your legs as lactic acid.

Sweet spot - 10-20% below your FTP, easy enough that you should be able to do a lot of training, but hard enough that you get an FTP benefit.

FTP - usually defined as the cusp of lactate starting to accumulate in your blood.  The traditional test is to ride for 20min as consistently hard as you can, and take 95% of that, or 100% of 1 hour.  Not it's not actually the same as saying max power for 1 hour, Some people won't be able to ride at FTP for 1 hour, some will be able to hold it for even longer.  That's referred to as Time To Exhaustion and in the real world is almost as important.

VO2Max - the maximum rate your body can absorb oxygen, or in cycling terms sprinting up a hill, you can hold this pace for a few minutes but will collapse out of breath at the end.

60s/30s type power is down to how much creatine is in your muscles. I.e. it's not a measure of power per-se, it's a measure of how much energy there is available to burn immediately It's why a lot of tests will ask you to go flat out and die after 20-40s then take an average over the full minute.  Pacing isn't crucial it's just a measure of energy transferred.

5s power is basically your max torque on the pedals.

Just remembered https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/less-than-30-minutes-to-burn/emilys-short-mix was an old favourite, like pushing up three little hills that get steeper towards the top.

It’s only tedious and boring if you don’t have an objective.

Spend the first couple of weeks familiarising yourself with things, getting used to it anf finding your rhythm before you go launching into FTP tests, then maybe some sweetspot work will return some early gains.

Should give you a decent base before threshold and VO2 work.

Finally, enjoy the benefits when you’re out on the trails in summer

I never understand this thought process, you don’t get out riding enough in it’s best form so instead you’re going to do something tedious and awful three times a week.

The thing is, turbo workouts are SOOOO structures and focussed, the results are undeniable!

I've never been so fit as when I did the Zwift build me up workout. And that fitness payed dividends out "in the real world"...

I actually really enjoy turbo workouts - it's an hour (or so) of genuine, 100% effort input (not 100% effort..but you're putting in energy 100% of the time..no coasting etc)... It's a great way of exercising with my kids in the house.

So i'd say, see what training plan your chosen programme has, and folllow that.

DrP

Wahoo SYSTM works well, just click through the plan setting and start riding. It will base the resistance based on the little test you do occasionally.

I’ll admit that I haven’t really followed any plan fully as during winter I’ll choose XC skiing over Wattbike every time the conditions and schedules allow.

just to echo what the others are saying.  I did the Zwift build me up 12 week plan and got fit enough to do the badger divide in 2 days comfortable and not blowing out my a** for the duration of the trip.

@Blackflag you sound as confused as I am about it all, for me though I only have a dumb, wheel on trainer so just train with heart rate, and as I'm not a racer and am just aiming for general fitness and wellbeing I just stick to the very rough heart rate zones that Garmin has given me by entering my age. I have however devised three different workouts that are totally non scientific but keep me ammused enough, they all last an hour as that's my limit for the turbo.

1, Zone 2 constant HR at the top of the zone for me 137-140bpm

2, Something like sweetspot intervals, warm up for 10 mins, then 10 mins at a target of 151bpm then 5 mins recovery, do that 3 times then cool down for the remainder of the hour.

3. Hard intervals, this is the least scientific of them all, I have a Spotify playlist of songs that last 3 to 3.30 minutes long, after a warm up I simply go hard for one song, as hard as possible to but able to maintain for the duration of the song, then recover for one song. Repeat 5-6 times and then cool down for the rest of the hour.

Thanks everyone. Really helpful.

So plan is now to supplement my 2hr Club Ride with 1 x Sweet Spot session and 1 x Hard Interval session. Thats something i can get my head around.

Plus some daily yoga and calisthenics type stuff (a fancy way of saying stretches and press ups)

I started off doing a proper plan on TrainerRoad a while back, followed it for months and it worked brilliantly. It was a lot of sweet spot and threshold intervals which really did boost my power and fitness. I quickly got very mentally tired of it though, and once I found out that I didn't actually enjoy racing in real life that much, I canned it in favour of Zwift which was at least semi fun to do.

On Zwift I just did various group rides. From TR and general reading up I had built up a pretty good knowledge of how to structure a training week and what to work on, so I could kind of imitate that by choosing group rides to match what I wanted. i.e. if I wanted a hard ride I'd join a fast group and a recovery ride I just pottered around with beginner rides. Occasionally I would do a 30 minute V02 max interval workout but overall I focussed less on structure and more just mixing up intensity and having a bit of fun.

The price hike eventually kicked me off that though, which is a shame because it was good fun. During these darker months I have now just gone out running instead tbh, and I think FB marketplace is calling for a turbo trainer listing. I do have notions of entering my local 10 mile TT series this summer though, so I am reticent to sell it just yet.

I never understand this thought process, you don’t get out riding enough in it’s best form so instead you’re going to do something tedious and awful three times a week.

This comes up again and again on STW every time anybody even mentions the use of a turbo trainer anywhere. Can we please all just understand that some people ride purely for fitness gains, some purely for the joy of riding a bike outside and everyone else is at some point on a continuum between the two. Or do we have to have someone point out that bikes can be ridden outdoors every time someone mentions they might spend an hour on the turbo.

Personally I quite enjoy the turbo trainer and even if I didn't I'm hardly going to go for a bike ride when I get back from work at 9pm to my home in the middle of Manchester on a freezing cold, wet January night. Even if I could be bothered going out in that, it takes me 50mins to even get out of the city into the lanes.

You might want to think about how much intensity you are doing each week, especially if you are coming to this from a lower level of fitness at the moment. TR really pushes the thing about doing enough Z2 stuff to build your aerobic engine and limited higher intesnsity, particularly if like lots of us you are "masters" vintage. If you are doing your club ride, sweet spot and HI interval, you might find that you are all at or above threshold, and you'll get pretty tired of it pretty quick. I found the Zwift build me up was too much, but the more nuanced TR works well.

I started off doing a proper plan on TrainerRoad a while back, followed it for months and it worked brilliantly. It was a lot of sweet spot and threshold intervals which really did boost my power and fitness. I quickly got very mentally tired of it though

I had similar, by the time spring was nearing each year I was finding less motivation to follow the plan. Think TR are well known for being a little too much - or at least they were, may have addressed that now with thier adaptive thing.

Coupled with the inevitiable plateau I eventually dropped TR altogether in favour of reducing number of intensity days to two with everything else as Z2 or free ride filler.

The main thing to realise is that much of the battle with using the turbo is mental.

If you can

i) convince yourself it's going to get you fitter more quickly than most other methods, and

ii) get over the initial "I can't be bothered/ it's too hard work/ it's too boring"

you've pretty much cracked it.

The first few sessions are the worst.  After that, the mental side gets a bit easier.

Think TR are well known for being a little too much – or at least they were, may have addressed that now with thier adaptive thing.

The adaptive training has done a great job (for me) of sorting exactly that thing. The plan builder is a lot more flexible now so you can drop intensity days via the masters plan or just swap them out entirely. I've gone from having to think carefully and plan my training to more or less just firing up TR and seeing what today brings. I also quite like the fact that if weather/time/terrain allows I can take the workout outside and see goldfinches while I train.

The thing is, it's just a very different riding experience to many of the other apps. I quite like just haivng a blue graph of doom and some low quality TV, but a lot of folk tend to find other stimuli more motivating. Something like TR's training plan alongside zwift/rouvy/whatever would probably suit a lot of people well, but would also probably end up costing more than your mortgage.

Using Rouvy to do longer zone 2 stuff when the weather is shite. Will probably introduce something more punishing or intensive if I'm not able to get out of the door at all.

Rouvy is quite immersive, currently doing a lap of Lake Garda in sections, the close passing feels real enough!

I just watch GCN Training videos on YouTube, whatever one takes my fancy and usually it's some kind of HIIT. I probably don't get the best workout as I'm on a singlespeed so it's hard to get enough resistance for sprints and becomes more of a cadence thing. But I'm always nackered at the end, and I've noticed an improvement when out on my MTB so it's doing something!

This probably won't shed any light on the best workouts to carry out, however this year I am trying to reduce my reliance on Tech.

I have a Tacx Neo 1 that is possibly 8 years old and going strong, I like it because I like it because I can use it without plugging it in. I would normally use it with some for of software (I've used Sufferfest, Tacx, and Zwift in the past) I also have a  Garmin edge 1000 that I can create workouts in and use to program the resistance of the Neo. Annoyingly the screen on the Edge 1000 is starting to go black, so unless anyone can suggest where to get a repair done, that's also out of the question.

This made me think, having got really fit using tech in the past, can I do it without it?

I want to put the human element back in training, will it make me feel more connected to my body and my bike?

Hopefully I will find out.

Another TrainerRoad fan here. I think it's really very good, especially now with the adaptive whatnot and selecting masters plan (it's a toggle switch, and reduces the plan down).

I run the app on my Pixel, and once I've fired up the workout, switch to Netflix/iPlayer or whatever and watch something on the phone screen. In erg mode you don't really need to see the graph, you get audio promts/boops when the interval is about to start/end. The TR app is solid.

I bought a cheapo phone case, and an adhesive garmin quater turn mount to stick to that, I click the phone into the garmin mount on my bike, in landscape orientation, right in front of me. No need for laptop, which always seems to want to update something right when you're ready to workout! Another benefit of using the phone is, it doesn't obstruct the airflow from your fans.