Sounds like you got off lightly compared to your pal’s bike.
Yes, although ENVE have given him a brand new wheel under warranty.
Tubeless for last 10 years on MTB always on Specialized tyres across multiple bikes and wheels and zero issues for fitting and never had to walk home.
Hired non tubed MTB in Mallorca and two punctures in two days. Not sure why tubeless vs tubes is even a debate for MTB.
The tubeless tyres have thicker sidewalls so probably marginal on RR as well.
But when running at 55psi, which you can because of the greater sidewall support, rough roads slow you down far less.
Tubeless has to be a complete system - wide rims, different rim bed, thicker sidewall tyres etc for it all to work smoothly on road. Then it's amazing.
But when running at 55psi, which you can because of the greater sidewall support, rough roads slow you down far less.
On road, I run tubeless and latex tubed at the same pressure - it doesn't seem to make any difference to how low I can run them.
In terms of the pinch flats I've had tubeless, I suspect I'd have avoided them if I'd have been running a higher pressure.
Then it’s amazing.
Really? Either you had a rubbish tubed set up or that's just the placebo effect. I honestly couldn't tell the difference. NB Both my tubed and tubeless setups are top end carbon wheels, top of the range tyres etc. Tubed always uses latex tubes.
On road I'd say there's nothing really in it between latex tubes and tubeless.
Road tubeless still seems not very sorted tbh- things like incredibly tight tyres, or rather I suppose a lack of standardisation in rims. That's a problem that mtb's mostly got past but it seems like road has to make the same mistakes? I know some people see tightness as an advantage, thinking it to be safer but I'm really not convinced
Road tubeless still seems not very sorted tbh- things like incredibly tight tyres, or rather I suppose a lack of standardisation in rims
That problem has sort of been solved with hookless rims, although it's yet another new standard and very limited tyre selection currently. However, I can get my tubeless tyres on and off my hookless Zipp 404s with just my thumbs (although not back on when covered in latex by the roadside).
This feat always seems to generate gasps of amazement from other riders with ridiculously tight tubeless tyres who need two people and at least three tyre levers to get a tyre off.
Fit and forget-for-far-too-long. I really should set a diary entry to check sealant every 12 months or so.
@footflaps, is road hookless really just the same thing as mtb hookless? ie, someone went "why do rims have hooks" and someone else said "because they do" and they said "yeah but whyyyyy"? Only, most of a decade after? I remember being told I was going to die when I got my first hookless rims...
@footflaps, is road hookless really just the same thing as mtb hookless?
I think the profile is different IIRC - the hookless road rim walls are vertical whereas I seem to recall Stans rims etc having a more flared profile - years since I looked at a Stans rim...
But yes, same concept.
My TT wheels are tubeless (HED JET 6/9/Disc), and they were fine to fit# (well the disc was far too tight) and lovely to race on. But it's a specific use case - NO puncture protection band in the tyre for absolute speed over everything else - the fastest tyres ever tested on rollingresistance.com. Not comfort nor low pressure rolling. Just absolute speed. For fun, I've also raced the Jet 6/9 combination in circuit races WITHOUT sealant (hey, it's always only going to be a short walk back :D). But as per @footflaps, latex tubes provide the same ride quality for less (but not zero pfaff) for my general riding.
#Airshot is a nice piece of kit.
What are everyone's strategies for dealing with an insert if you get a tubeless fail that to can't seal, and need to bung a tube in?
I bring a small swingbin liner to shove the insert into if the worst happens. Only had to use it once. Tied it to my bum bag and aside fr ok m the rustling I barely noticed it
It's still faff, but somewhat less, and as mentioned this is generally moved to the home rather than the trailside
I've no idea how anyone is getting their sealent to last 6-12 months. I run Orange Endurant sealant, apparently the most long lasting, and I'll still check that every 2-3 months
I do also tend to pump up my tyres to pressure almost every ride (effectively once a week), and I've had tyre/rim combinations that will need repumping even after 24 hours
Tubeless tape I find can also be very annoying. Removing tyres can damage it, and retaping a rim is a pita
So, I do occasionally think about moving back to tubes, but then I remember that I've had perhaps just two punctures in the past 6-7 years that sealant wouldn't fix, and the ride quality is so much better with tubeless. So for me it really isn't worth going back to tubes
I first went tubeless on my 2006 Enduro, in 2006 - has the OP still got tubes in his car tyres too?
has the OP still got tubes in his car tyres too?
you fit your own car tyres? That’s some seriously strong thumbs!! 🙂
For me the super low pressures made possible by a combination of wide rims, tubeless and larger tyres has transformed my road riding experience. It’s amazing.
I do exactly that with my wide rims, larger tyres and decent tubes. I've taken the benefits of tubeless, without the hassle. I still see a good few rides ruined by people with badly set up tubeless (usually old guys who insist that road tyres should be at 100 psi no matter what.) and a few failures. Probably half that i used to see with everyone on tubes. So better than it used to be, the problem comes when you try to fix it. So that's added faff.
(As an added bonus, 15 years working in the trade and 35 years of practice and the grip strength of a primate means i've not failed to get a tyre on or off a rim for at least a decade and a half. Sometimes need a lever or two to get heavy duty DH tyres or the worst of the worst of road rim/tyre combos separated.)
FWIW i started with tubeless on a proper Mavic/Hutchinson package from my LBS in 2000. Gave up with it in 2000 as well. Leaked to the point of unrideablity in the space of 6 hours, regular unsealable punctures and split tyres, also, really really heavy.
Started again in about 2008/9, now all my MTBs are tubeless, (except for the studded winter wheels/tyres), the only ones that need any "faff" are the stans conversions using conventional tyres (no tubeless ready beads, no tubeless compatible carcass.) The grand total of the faff is making sure that they get an extra 40-50 ml of sealant after a week or so once the initial sealant has sorted the tiny leaks out. That's it.
I check pressure before every ride anyway, have done that for 35 years.
Probably worth adding, tubeless is usually lighter, gives a better ride too.
Don't do it for weight though, it can be lighter, but even at the same weight it's faster, more traction, less puncture risk etc etc
Changed my rear tyre yesterday. 20-25 minutes with an insert. First time taking those inserts off, so I was a bit worried. But no real bother.
I still stand by my estimate of 5 mins for a non-insert tyre.
Friend of mine suggests that Tubeless is exactly as much faff as tubes. The question is, Would you rather be doing your faff in the workshop or out on the trail in the rain.
Tyres ride loads better without tubes in though, so its not a straight comparison.
Fit and forget for months one end. Maybe years. I think i went 2 or 3 years without a puncture initially.
And then one day it doesnt work and you find out all your sealant has been stolen by the sealant fairies, and you end up having to chuck a tube in, but ALSO remove the 30 or so thorns the sealent did seal before it was stolen... invariably in the rain.
Now i write it out, does anyone carry 60ml of sealent with them, instead of a tube?
Now i write it out, does anyone carry 60ml of sealent with them, instead of a tube?
No, because if you tear a sidewall, you're either using a tube or walking back to the car....
Now i write it out, does anyone carry 60ml of sealent with them, instead of a tube?
I do on my gravel and bikepacking bikes as they've both got framebags and usually a lot further from home - just buy the small Stans bottles.
But as per @footflaps, latex tubes provide the same ride quality for less (but not zero pfaff) for my general riding.
I punctured a latex inner tube once, and it had been in there so long that the latex had dried out, so when I went to pull the tube out, a handful of inner tube came off in my hand, leaving the other 95% still in there! Had to pull it out in bits! What was really impressive, is it still worked perfectly up to that puncture....
No, because if you tear a sidewall, you’re either using a tube or walking back to the car….
Or a plug/anchovy, it's really dependant on the type and location of the damage TBF. The ideal is obviously that the sealant deals with a hole, next best scenario is that a slightly larger cut requires an anchovy, poked in from the outside so there's still no need to unseat the tyre, the plug/anchovy helps the sealant to do it's job and then you simply pump it up again and ride.
IME fitting a tube is really the third (last) option now, I really don't want to have to remove the tyre if I don't have to. Sealant and tyre inserts are about prevention/minimisation of puncture/air loss risks, Anchovies and Tubes are what you resort to if the absolute worst comes to the worst, to put it in context, I've only had a handful of incidents with tubeless over the last 15 odd years where the tyre didn't seal itself. In all but a couple of those instances an anchovy sorted the tyre (as in permanently, there was never any need to do additional repairs after IME) only twice that I can remember have I had to resort to fitting a tube, one of those was due to forgetting to take my tubeless repair bits along (a plug probably would have worked, but I forgot it), the other was because I hadn't topped up the sealant (So both were more user failures really)...
I would still highly recommend having a spare tube taped/strapped to the frame or whatever, just because it's gives you one extra layer to the 'swiss cheese model' for what +60~70g? Vs walking back. But lots of people seem to be OK with ditching the spare tube now which maybe indicates something about how reliable Tubeless has become and how effective plugs are when you do have to resort to using them...
No, because if you tear a sidewall, you’re either using a tube or walking back to the car….
Or a plug/anchovy,
I'm talking 2" tear, don't carry that many anchovies with me!
Had to use a tyre boot (section of old tyre) and an inner tube. I've twice run over something very sharp which instantly put a very clean cut in the tyre well beyond the size of anything I could re-seal. Very annoying as in one case the tyre was brand new!
Now i write it out, does anyone carry 60ml of sealent with them, instead of a tube?
No, but after a scape along a rock that bent a quick link and slashed my rear tyre I realised that the tyre was filled with all sorts of crap poking through it that had sealed, (including bits of glass) so I spent time picking all those out before putting a tube in and getting home again!
Mostly fit and forget for me, now across a fair range of bikes (inc tandem MTBs and road bikes). Fit can be a bit of a faff depending on the specifics, but mostly it's been pretty good. Haven't yet had any significant failures on the trail, did burp a bit once once or twice and have to pump up but that was easy. Mind you we were never that heavy on punctures anyway, we've still got tubed bikes and they have been fine too.
Mind you we were never that heavy on punctures anyway, we’ve still got tubed bikes and they have been fine too.
I was converted to tubeless (MTB) in Colorado about 15 years ago. Was riding Monarch Crest IIRC and after my 3rd or 4th snake bite the rest of the group (all locals) insisted I either convert to tubeless or never ride with them again!
They were all tubeless.
el_boufador
Full MemberWhat are everyone’s strategies for dealing with an insert if you get a tubeless fail that to can’t seal, and need to bung a tube in?
I think the only options are either carry a bag, or if you've got a pack that you can attach stuff to the outside, do that and deal with the mess later. Or do what i did and just ride on the insert. That trashed the insert, but was still a good decision at the time.
Not sure many people agree but I've stopped using inserts, for me they're basically a second best fix compared to just putting the same amount of weight into the tyre. But that does depend on finding a carcass that really suits you, whereas inserts give you more tyre choice. I guess I'd put them back in if I was racing enduro again, I was very glad for it at the mega when I got a flat despite dh tyres.
qwerty
The most satisfying thing with tubeless is being out on a ride, hearing a thorn puncture hiss and spit out a bit of sealant and then just stop hissing. And you just carry on riding.
If you do ever need to put a tube into a tubeless setup make sure you check the inside of the tyre for thorns first. It’s amazing how many can penetrate the tyre to which you’ve been blissfully oblivious.
and the worst bit of tubeless road bikes, is coming out from the cafe to find fluid all over the bike and up the shop window where your bike has been leaning.
Not me, as I went hook line and sinker tubed on my last road bike, but 17 years of loving it on the mtb's. I feel it has no place on small volume high pressure tyres. I even know bike shop owners who hate it on road bikes
