[Closed] TREK (Carbon frame) excessive cable rub in only a few weeks - how concerned?

Your frame does have a lifetime warranty so you should be good. Added to which you have contacted your lbs about this so any failure, however unlikely, that results will not come out of the blue to them. Get those patches on sharpish though to prevent any further deterioration.

4mm deep or 0.4mm deep - if it's the former then I'd be worried!

Had the same thing happen to my EX8, rear mech cable at junction of top and seat tube? (Not as deep as yours, just a flat rub).

Cut cables and sorted routing out, put on heli tape and contacted bike shop i got it from. No problems since. You should be fine with what you've done regarding contacting local shop and the Trek warranty. Just note the date and name of shop you contacted just in case you do need to send it back.

If 4mm go back to LBS and demand they discuss with Trek.

If 0.4mm add patches and make a mental note to check all the frame for rubs.

Its hard to measure it exactly but definately between 2.5 and 4mm (not .4)

I have regularly checked the frame for rubs - and placed tape where cables are rubbing up and down (which seems to be largely cosmetic - removing the gloss paintwork.) I missed this though cos it is directly underneath the cable and has been caused by rubbing in the direction of the cable, not up and down - so the groove has been covered by the cable
Take a look here for photo of damage http://www.sheffieldaccommodation.co.uk/page18.html

Certainly doesn't look like anything like 4mm (gear outer has an OD of 4mm and you couldn't 'bury' the gear cable in that groove).

I wouldn't be worried about that, just put a patch on it. It's a heavily reinforced area not under than much stress anyway.

My mate has a carbon GT full suss and the bike shop guy saw the surface had been broken and let in dirt on the top tube he got the GT rep to examine and they replaced it. My mate later realised that his brake levers had been knocking it when they swung around!

I would say the cable sits about a third of it into the groove (looks like it was designed to fit there!)

So if as you say the cable is 4mm the groove is less than 2mm (but sure looks and feels deeper than that.

Looks to be about 1mm deep at most, so cosmetic currently. However IMO that's a spot that should have been immediately obvious on checking for rubs and personally I'd have patched that when I built it up as it's a classic wear spot on a full sus. You can moan to the shop/trek but they'll probably point out that it's wear and tear and due to you not placing the appropriate patches and refuse to warranty it.

You can moan to the shop/trek but they'll probably point out that it's wear and tear and due to you not placing the appropriate patches and refuse to warranty it.

Eh? Surely IF the bike was supplied built, then it should have come with the protection attached if its needed. Your not suggesting that you need to patch or helitape a new bike to prevent structural failure are you?

Ah, I thought he'd built it up from a frame, sorry 🙂 However if the frame was supplied with patches you might still get arguments.

coffeeking

I am fairly new to mbiking and wouldn't know where to start in building a bike!
The bike was factory built and as such I feel they should have at least made me aware it was likely to rub in that position.

geofj
It would seem exactly that:
I am now in email correspondence with TREK - their initial responce is, it is my fault, not a design error and I must patch it. They also reckon it will not have 'significantly' weakened the frame.

Will add patches and hope it doesn't prove to be a problem in the future.

Not really the best responce from the manufacturer of a 10 weeks old £4500 bike (even though I paid less as it is last years model

Let me see,

Purchased a new car recently
Turning corner and changing gear has caused the chassis to wear after only a few miles.

Never mind says the retailer – probably be ok.

Manufacturer agrees and says its my own fault for not putting tape over the chassis - as I should have known it would wear – it’s what happens when you drive.

It won't matter, it's cosmetic. Agree it's a bit lame.

andyxxx - I'm sure TJ will be along soon, but remember, that your contract is with the shop you bought it from, not Trek*. They are the ones who should sort it - even if they do need to work with Trek for that to happen.

Of course, take pictures, record all conversations etc., and good luck.

* And yes it may be quicker/easier to deal with Trek directly in the long run, but don't forget about your legal position.

Eh? Surely IF the bike was supplied built, then it should have come with the protection attached if its needed. Your not suggesting that you need to patch or helitape a new bike to prevent structural failure are you?

Colin from Trek warranty crops up from time to time, he may have sommat to say...

geoffj

Yep - thanks. I realize my contract is with my lbs - but had heard good things about TREK and their warranty - so thought it was worth letting them know.

Incidentally. If as seems to be the general concensus it is not a problem, I do not give tuppence. The nature of the sport and my general ability mean the bike will not look brill by the end of the year anyway.

I guess i am slightly paranoid because of the horror stories I hear regarding carbon.

By the way - apart from this (hopefully tiny issue) I really like the bike. A decision made partly due to this forum and njee20.

C'dale have specifically told me cable rub is not covered by warrenty, and even though i have the original reciept clearly marked with "lifetime warrenty", it's no longer under warrenty (03 frame).

I'd ask you LBS for something in writing from Trek

Hi all,
difficult area this one, as we do not fit the patches from standard- after all some people runs brakes different ways, some people fit narrow/wide bars, shorter/longer stems and

n

their position on the bike before taking it from the bike store. One of my colleagues has been in touch with andyxxx with some advice and the images we have seen are purely cosmetic at this stage. We have advised to cover up this and all other areas where friction from cable rub could be experienced to prolong the good looks of the frame. We are also going to issue a

m

service bulletin to all stores that these areas should be discussed prior to the bike being taken away from the store.
Thanks
Colin from Trek

Hi all,
difficult area this one, as we do not fit the patches from standard- after all some people runs brakes different ways, some people fit narrow/wide bars, shorter/longer stems and

n

their position on the bike before taking it from the bike store. One of my colleagues has been in touch with andyxxx with some advice and the images we have seen are purely cosmetic at this stage. We have advised to cover up this and all other areas where friction from cable rub could be experienced to prolong the good looks of the frame. We are also going to issue a

m

service bulletin to all stores that these areas should be discussed prior to the bike being taken away from the store.

Thanks
Colin from Trek

trekcol. Colin from Trek

Your colleague has been in email correspondece with me this morning and promptly answered my questions, but I do not agree that a factory built bike, without modification should have suffered any damage in such a short period.

However, I am releived to hear that this is cosmetic. I have now 'patched' this area so it will not get any worse.

Thanks everybody for your input.

Andy

This is crap...sorry guys you can't use a bike without the cable in place, TREK have to design the bike so it doesn't wear through the frame or provide the owner with patches and a great big warning about the consequences of not fitting them!..TREKs response is bollox , where that cable has exited the frame has worn...irrespective of whether he fits a 150mm stem and drop bars to it it won't affect where that cable guide is!

Cracked my E5 frame last year and when stripping it realized one the rear Goodrich hose had worn 5mm through the frame where the links mount...I'd never noticed it and wonder where I'd have stood on warrantee if the frame hadn't cracked elsewhere first

Now, forgive me for saying this, but I thouth [u]THE[/u] reason that Trek won't let their dealers sell mail order was to avoid set-up problems caused by a 3rd party work on their bikes. i.e - To conrtol the quality of their bikes and the assembly of them!

Personally, I think this is a shonky attitude. The OP has no clue that this can happen, and why should he? That's why he goes to a dealers and buys an expensive bike.

Agree it's crap, but at the end of the day, it's cosmetic. If it fails there in the future (which it blatantly won't!) he's logged his complaint with Trek, who know about it, and there's another bridge to cross.

Edit: why do people call it 'TREK' it's not an acronym!?

If you built the frame yourself you wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
If it was factory built BUT you those arent the original outers then its not their fault.

If they are the original outers though- its their fault. Design/finishing/build- whatever- their fault.

All IMO of course.

Now, forgive me for saying this, but I thought THE reason that Trek won't let their dealers sell mail order was to avoid set-up problems caused by a 3rd party work on their bikes

The man makes a good point.

I personally think this is a poor attitude from Trek. I know it is only cosmetic damage, but if i paid a big chunk of change on a bike only for it to start to wear BECAUSE of how it had been set-up/built by Trek then i would be pissed.

Bikes are shipped 90% finished from the factory and then finished off in the shop. Mechanics usually pop on frame protection.
To be fair it's not Trek's fault if you dont see cable rub - you need to be inspecting your bike every ride as per the warranty details.

I would understand a manufacturer not covering this as the frame has not failed. If it were to fail through a cable cutting through you would have to question the use of the frame being correct and per the warranty terms.

Great - so someone has made this problem aware to Trek & they have now updated their service bulletins to take this into account.
Doesn't really help the OP though does it.

I'd have thought the bike shop should have at least mentioned that cable rub might be an issue, or even better added some protection.
And as someone mentioned above (coffeeking?), that is an area that is prone to rub on FS bikes as the sus compresses. My Stumpy has similar wear marks, but not as bad (and that's 9yrs old now)!

It does look like mainly cosmetic damage, but I'd still be mighty peeved if it was my bike.
PP makes a good point about Trek not selling mail order to control quality & the cables are clearly in their original paths.

To be honest, once it's covered up/protected & the bike has a few more dings it will be forgotten. But, that isn't really the point on a £4k bike.

FFS cables rub frames. Any make, any model.

Unless Lizzard Skins only make these for Carbon Treks...

[img] [/img]

My alloy '09 EX9 started to rub in exactly the same position on the first ride, as did that a mate of mine who also has an EX9. Luckiy I noticed after the first ride and put helicopter tape which has stopped it, so perhaps it is an issue with the EX series?

I would like to say again that Colin was extremely helpful and very fair with my carbon frame warranty claims (all three of them)in 2008 and 2009 and I would hope that if it did cause a problem long term that they would honour their Lifetime warranty as they did with me.

this is a problem with cannondale rush frames with the cable for the rear mech which runs throught the swing arm and one of the things that put me off buying one this summer. have a look at any carbon rush frame and you will see what i mean. basically cannondale refer the owner to page x in the owners manual and say goodbye.

I had a similar but different issue with an iron horse. But instead it was with the chain rubbing a groove on the chainstay when in 3 of the gears! Was told it was my fault, I shouldn't have been using those gears. I argued then why did they sell it as a 27 speed bike? but to no avail. Apparantly I was the only one with this issue, but since i've heard of tothers being told the same thing, plus its funny that the next year they completely changed the design to avoid this. I threatened to take them to court, but it didnt change anything....

FFS cables rub frames. Any make, any model.

Unless Lizzard Skins only make these for Carbon Treks...

Whats your point caller? Why is it the OP's fault?

*makes a note to check my Trek later*

I'm not aware of any manufacturer, including Trek, that offers a warranty on their frames that covers cable rub. If a manufacturer does offer a warranty that covers cable rub I'd be pleased to know about it.

Anyhow, the only way an outer cable could do that much damage in 3 months is if there was dirt between the cable and the frame to act as a sort of grinding paste. I'm not saying the OP is to blame for anything other than a bit of naivety, but dirt wears stuff out.

Imagine if the OP had said that he had ridden the bike for 3months and he hadn't used any lube on the chain and it's now rusted and snapped, would you also be saying that Trek should replace the drivetrain under warranty?

Its his fault because he didn't apply the provided frame protectors

Irrespective of whether the damage is cosmetic or not, this will affect the resale value, and ease of resale of the frame/bike.

For all the reasons detailed above by various people imo Trek and or the shop have some culpability for the damage, by not educating the customer on the need for patches and should accept some responsibility.

i have used clear nail varnish on a similar rub on a carbon frame before as that is similar to the lacquer used, then patched over it.

i thought carbon bikes normally came with the owners manual ?

cheers

halfbee - Premier Member

Its his fault because he didn't apply the provided frame protectors

there would need to be a disclaimer in the manual for that. Which Im pretty sure theres not.

The waters are muddied here by the material in question. Excessive damage to carbon can lead to catastrophic failure resulting in death or worse.:)
Seriously though if there is a 4mm gouge out of a carbon frame (providing you didnt assemble it) within weeks then demand that its replaced.

You better hope that has seven layers of paint on it, because that's how many layers you have rubbed through.

It doesn't matter what the shop or Trek says, that is unacceptable wear, and if they provide frame stickers because they know there is a wear issue it is their job to fit them, not yours, not unless they gave you a discount to fit them yourself.

if you bought the bike built, it's their responsibility to make sure it's fit for purpose and cables wearing through a frame is not fit. It wouldn't be fit on an HGV or an Aeroplane and it aint fit here.

Reject the frame as not fit for purpose. If bike shop won't accept the rejection then write to them by recorded delivery, advising them that they have either to rectify the fault or give you a full refund. If they refuse sue them through the Small Claims Court. Mountain bikes should be suitable for use in mountain conditions, and if the cable fitted at delivery are causing frame damage after such a short time then the bike design is unsuitable. To say that dirt between the cable and frame is the responsibility of OP is ludicrous. The bike has to be fit for use in dirty and rough conditions, which it clearly is not.

they never showed me any houses like that when i came to sheffield

Are you honestly saying that you think any frame with cable rub (i.e ALL eventually) are unfit for purpose.

You are living in a dream world. Seriously, just think about what you have written and read out loud how silly it sounds...

Are you honestly saying that you think any frame with cable rub (i.e ALL eventually) are unfit for purpose.

You are living in a dream world. Seriously, just think about what you have written and read out loud how silly it sounds...

Your missing the point there. In this instance the wear is excessive and apparently within a matter of weeks of purchase. This is grounds for repair or replacement under the terms of the respective warranty. Would you be happy with a 4mm gouge out of your new carbon frame?

Its not 4mm. And I make sure I protect my frame as much as possible.

What's worrying is the 20-30 rides without inspection. If I were Trek I would not entertain a warranty. It is simply not a manufacturing fault with the carbon frame. To say it is is missing the point of a warranty.

markd - Member

Its not 4mm. And I make sure I protect my frame as much as possible.

Likewise, its the first thing I do when I buy a frame. Heli tape these areas then rubber protectors on the cables.

What's worrying is the 20-30 rides without inspection. If I were Trek I would not entertain a warranty. It is simply not a manufacturing fault with the carbon frame. To say it is is missing the point of a warranty.

Your right its not a manufacturing fault but rather a design oversight.
I dont know why cables have to interfere with frames considering the finish on carbon, top coat is not resistant to excessive rubbing.

Having checked the OP's pictures of the rubbing Id have to agree, that a warranty issue will not wash. I can appreciate how disappointing it is to mark new kit though.

Some frame protectors over the existing damage is the best option I could suggest.

That cable routing looks nothing like the demo bikes used in other reviews see:

Given that was the launch event, and we assume the best trek mechanics around set those up, then someone has screwed up badly with yours.

Either Trek or the shop need to step up and get that frame replaced.

To be fair this is the LBS fault. It may be a design fault but any decent shop should have known about it and given him a heads up. Yes cables rub you've got to expect that but as he's said he's new to MTB and has gone into a shop to buy a 4k bike. They should have at least given him some advice.

How hard is it? "Hell you've spent 4k i'll throw some patches in, you know what i'll even fit them for you, i'd be gutted if I gouged the hell out of brand new carbon frame"

Thanks for all the further input.
I must add that the groove is worse than it looks on my photos – it is not just paint that is removed – a chunk of carbon has gone as well!

If it is only cosmetic as TREK state, then although I’m annoyed, it’s not really an issue to me cos the bike will look tatty in a year or so anyway.

However, I would like firm assurance from TREK that they would cover this as a warranty issue if it did prove to be a problem. I am also eager to hear what TREK have to say regarding the set up of cables as per the photo phead kindly posted.

Lots of very helpful posts – and overall not very good PR for the company.

Hora
I have to agree with you. They are the original outers (factory fitted) so exactly my point the design/finish/build is at fault

Markd
I clean and inspect the bike after every ride. This wear really is hidden behind the cable and I really did not know or expect the damage would occur (or of course would have prevented it.)

Halfbee
No frame protectors were provided and untill I reported the issue to the lbs I didn’t even know such things existed existed.

Jenga
Mountain bikes should be suitable for use in mountain conditions, and if the cable fitted at delivery are causing frame damage after such a short time then the bike design is unsuitable – this is my thinking exactly and why the following comment and photo are so interesting.

Phead
Thank you – a very interesting photo and helpful post. If the cables were run like that there would not have been an issue. I am interested to hear what TREK say about that.

Offroad bikes in cable rub shocker! Next you'll be taking the bike back cuz the tyres are worn or the chains dirty! People be realistic about this, the bike moves around cables rub, stones chip. I've even had customers bring bikes back within a day of purchase with a flat tyre asking for warranty because it's a new bike and the tyres shouldn't puncture. MTFU 😉

If you are that worried about your frame, be creative on your next ride and ensure the front triangle needs replacing under warranty. Then, buy some patches and look after it this time.... 😀