[Closed] Training plan... do you have one?

Last year I had a personal coach but this year I have read Joe Friels Training Bible and have devised a plan from there. Takes you through Base, Build, Peak and Race and the training becomes more intense through the different blocks. Currently in the build phase.

I am also using [url= http://home.trainingpeaks.com/ ]TrainingPeaks[/url] which is also based on Joe Friel.

I came from a running background and switched over to racing XC/CX a few years ago. I used Joe Friel’s book/ideas a lot to help build a schedule and a power meter to help understand what intensity I should be training at, (this was the greater unknown to me).

I also read http://www.training4cyclists.com/ for ideas

I'm racing every sunday for the next 5 weeks.
I plan to train........eventually (still a bit early yet tbh).Until then I'll concentrate on enjoying riding.

Thanks MM, have got Joe's book but there's a lot to digest so it may be one for next season when I have a bit more time. How does trainingpeaks work with Joe's book? Is it just a phases thing or is there tighter integration? Do you need to sign up to the pro one?

Edit: Thanks Swedish Chef, most of my training is power meter on the turbo. Thanks for the link, shall check it out.

Double edit: Thanks Rorschach. I'm very time constrained so want to get the most out of the time I have for riding hence wanting to be a bit more specific about my training.

i have a training plan.

I plan to do no training and only ride in prime conditions at prime locations.

I'm racing every sunday for the next 5 weeks.
I plan to train........eventually (still a bit early yet tbh).Until then I'll concentrate on enjoying riding.

yep wait until you only have 5 hours left then start a thread asking for advice.

Interested to hear a bit more about experiences with TrainingPeaks. Anyone care to share? Shall do some googling...

I have a training plan which consists of jumping on the roadbike, then pedal like **** for a couple of hours. Or, drive to a prime location, jump on the MTB & pedal for 4 or five hours. Or jump on turbo trainer & pedal like **** for 40 mins.
I prefer the middle one.

[url= http://www.amazon.com/dp/193403083X ]The Time Crunched Cyclist[/url] has some good plans for those of us with less than the ideal amount of time.

Trainingpeaks uses all the workout plans from the book and uses the same priciple. You fill in a few details based on goals/ races, how many hours a week you can train etc and it will generate a suggested structure from that based power, muscular endurance, endurace, strength and a few other things. You then devise your own plan based on your own strengths and weaknesses. I put all the workouts from Joe Friels book into my library and use them.

You can monitor food, fitness, weight and a whole load of other things too. You need to input a lot of info to start with to create your own library but once done it's very quick and easy to use.

I use the the full version but a free version is available but with limited access.

wtf with a 'training plan' just get out and ride as often as you can. Do you have like a spreadsheet where you will have like 1 hr here and 2 hrs then, with 20 hills and 5 miles of flat, sounds like BS to me. Lets Go, lets RIDE.

Mogrim, TCC is good, I used it a couple of years ago and it got me in very good shape for a specific event. Though found it left me feeling totally spent and overtrained a couple of weeks after the event. Not really a surprise as the book does say this will happen. I'm looking to put something together that is more sustainable for a season's racing. There is definitely some good stuff to take on board from the TCC though.

Thanks MM, shall investigate training peaks further. Did you look at any of their pre-built plans?

Jekkyl, Thanks for the feeedback 🙂

I have devised my own plan taken from the Joe Friel book. I know what I need to improve so it's more taylored to my weaknesses. I've been doing a lot of muscular endurance and threshold work. I'm racing road, TT's and cyclocross this year so this is really helping.

So far this season I've had a 2nd and a 6th in TT''s, won a crit and moved up a cat, and scoring points in my new cat so I'm definetly improving. 🙂

Used to offer training plans to clients for cycling, running, triathlon and adventure racing. The one thing I know for sure is that there is no right answer- what works for one person fails spectacularly with another. The hard part is finding out what works for you in terms of sustainable commitment, how focused the sessions are etc.

In general the thing most people miss is what MM talks about above- phases. It is widely assumed that you have to train like a mentalist all the time to get better, rather than allowing times when you go easy, or rest more (and of course other phases when you train like a mentalist)

Never used Training Peaks I'm afraid, but heard some good things about it.

Mogrim, TCC is good, I used it a couple of years ago and it got me in very good shape for a specific event. Though found it left me feeling totally spent and overtrained a couple of weeks after the event. Not really a surprise as the book does say this will happen. I'm looking to put something together that is more sustainable for a season's racing. There is definitely some good stuff to take on board from the TCC though.

Yeah, the main message is: No time? Up the intensity. That's about it, really.

In general the thing most people miss is what MM talks about above- phases. It is widely assumed that you have to train like a mentalist all the time to get better, rather than allowing times when you go easy, or rest more (and of course other phases when you train like a mentalist)

That's one thing I've learnt from last year. When I had a coach I was just doing what he told me and never understood why I wa doing it. I found that I was pushing myself too hard and was getting ill a lot. The end of last year I started researching why I was doing it and with a little understanding I am now training a lot smarter. Resting when I need to even though I want to ride and my sessions are more structured to what I want to improve on.

Although I still know very little compared to educated trainers I feel I now know how my body reacts to certain training loads and that has helped massively.

I found two sessions in particular very useful and used them weekly.

The first is a classic Nordic session that seems to be applied for XC skiing, running, cycling, whatever.

Its 4 * 4 minutes off 2 minutes recovery, aiming for a consistent effort across all 4 intervals. Mentally and physically really hard!

The other, (as linked to), is 2 * 20 minutes off 5 minutes recovery, again at a consistent level. Effort is manageable, but still hard. I still use this session as my only cycling based workout as I'm now running seriously again.

Done regularly I really noticed good improvements with increased power and decreased average H/R.

Thanks chaps. I think I have a pretty good idea about how my body reacts to training load, phases of training etc from years of running, so it does all translate across quite well. Maybe i just need to bury myself in Joe's book for a few weeks. Probably worth doing before getting consumed by a sea of data in Training Peaks!

Edit: Thanks Chef. Training has been along those lines. Been using TrainerRoad and it has some good 2x20 and 3x20 sessions, as well as lots of shorter interval ones.

What do you recommend for improving threshold power?

This is the one element i'd really like to improve. Have heard on a few other forums that the 6x5x1 (6 times 5mins with 1min rest) approach is just as good as 2x20

I used to have a training plan a few years ago (same coach as Mulletus Maximus) but got bored of road racing last year and completely tailed off

This year i'm not into structured training as much but have ridden a lot more than i ever had. I'm going to hit the summer cross series and maybe some xc races and see how i get on.

wtf with a 'training plan' just get out and ride as often as you can. Do you have like a spreadsheet where you will have like 1 hr here and 2 hrs then, with 20 hills and 5 miles of flat, sounds like BS to me. Lets Go, lets RIDE.

Pretty much.

Although IMO they're only really of any use if your riding falls into one of three categories:

1) Doing so much riding that you're in danger of overtraing (or just riding too much leading to bodedom/injury/fatigue/a virus), e.g. a 20mile each way commute, every day, followed by riding at the weekend. If you planned it better you could manage all that riding and still do enough specific training to improve rather than just beign able to ride 20 miles at a steady state.

2) Not enough time, so an hour grabbed here and there in the week has to be specific enough to improve fitness.

3) You're at a level where the marginal gain of a specific session over just riding with mates is required to win.

And +1 fror the 2x20, I did it on alternate days at about 95% of my max speed (that i could sustain for 20min) on the turbo (unless I was out riding). Did that untill afer about 3 weeks I couldn't do it anymore, took a week off the turbo, and went back to it and re-tested to find a new maximum. Over about 10 weeks my speed went up 10%. 10% doesn't sound much but it's threshold power, so that's you'r mate riding away from you 10% quicker up a long hill, not just being able to sprint for a few minutes. Not bad for about 3 hours extra riding a week.

TINAS... mostly 2 🙁

Yes, but for swimming not cycling

TINAS... mostly 2

Could be worse, after a lazy winter, an injury and the missus deciding the house needed re-decorating for the past month I'm probably the least fit I think I've ever been!

Could be worse, after a lazy winter, an injury and the missus deciding the house needed re-decorating for the past month I'm probably the least fit I think I've ever been!

Just wait till she decides you need a baby! Then you'll be the least fit you've ever been and on top of that you'll be the most tired you've ever been 😉

For threshold power my workout of choice would be the 6x(5 on 1 off). 2x20 is just as good physiologically, but the chances of a good consistent output for 20mins are pretty low unless you are REALLY motivated- its the kind of effort I like to save for race day (and a few prep sessions leading into a big race)

Just make sure that you use some sort of objective measure like speed, power, distance etc so that you can tell rep 6 is as good as rep 1 etc. HR is no good for a session like that as after rep 2 it will barely drop between reps.

For threshold power my workout of choice would be the 6x(5 on 1 off). 2x20 is just as good physiologically, but the chances of a good consistent output for 20mins are pretty low unless you are REALLY motivated- its the kind of effort I like to save for race day (and a few prep sessions leading into a big race)

Just make sure that you use some sort of objective measure like speed, power, distance etc so that you can tell rep 6 is as good as rep 1 etc. HR is no good for a session like that as after rep 2 it will barely drop between reps.

What kind of effort are you doing for 5 mins? I suppose as hard/consistent as you can for 5 mins?

Or bottom of level 4 kind of effort?

For threshold power my workout of choice would be the 6x(5 on 1 off). 2x20 is just as good physiologically

ust make sure that you use some sort of objective measure like speed, power, distance etc so that you can tell rep 6 is as good as rep 1 etc.

Tricky; forgot about your email. Will try and reply today.

Never done 6 * 5 mins off 1, interesting, must try that. Numbers wise, higher than my 2 * 20 power, but lower then the 4 * 4 one.

yep hard as you can manage, with all the reps being as close to the same as you can make them (i.e. same power output). However if you get to number 3/4/5 and can do more, then up to intensity each rep until you fail.

I was coached last year (for free), then moved to Training Peaks virtual coach over winter time and am now being coached again by someone different(again its free). My training plan is put together by my coach on TP and I can move it around depending on how i feel / weather etc. TP is great. I think most coaches broadly follow Joe Friel's was of thinking ie base periods, build, similar workouts. To put a plan together you really need to read Joe's book and understand what you need to do and don't be afraid to take extra rest if needed. The biggest benefit for me of a coach and TP is that my training is all very structured - its rare i just ride my bike - i'm fitter, faster, can talk race tactics/nutrition/get support, and i'm more rested. But i really hate taking my RHR in the morning and not being able to train if its raised! 🙁

As for threshold, i've done the 2 x 20mins, increasingly to 2 x 25mins, then 2 x 30mins. I can confirm the 2 x 30mins was the worst thing I've ever done, i could have fallen off the rollers by the time i'd finished it! Like MM, i use rollers for this session.

Interesting point about using rollers for longer sessions, had actually been thinking that might be a good thing to do.

Dgoab, how did you find the virtual coach thing? Any good?

What do you do if your morning RHR is elevated? Do you just skip that days session, or reorganise your sessions around a new "rest day". Need to do this quite often as I have a one year old who's not sleeping very well at the moment, lack of sleep is a slowly finishing me off! I tend to just get on with it though as if I didn't train when I was tired then I'd never train 😐

What is it you're training for....sportives need a different plan than crit races. Biggest benefit of a training plan for me is it eliminates overtraining...

Rollers rock, I use them for my interval sessions.

Its part of one of the TP versions (i get it on the coached edition but i think its on the premium £10 a month one) I liked it - but its generic and doesn't know your weaknesses, so takes discipline to work on them over what the virtual coach prescribes. I think its worked so far for me, having top 10 placings in all my early season races.

If my RHR is up, i move my rest day to that day and the other sessions around it. It depends on how much its up by really - if its just a beat or two, then i might move an easy z1-2 ride to that day, but much more than that = complete rest. It can (but rarely) mean 2 rest days back to back, or 2 rest days a week instead of 1, but i'm still putting in a minimum of 8.5 hours in a recovery week up to a max of 17 (which i rarely hit due to a full time job!) With the training being so structured, its rare that the training is the cause (for me) of a RHR, not enough sleep, work/llife stress or illness is the main cause.

Yeah, not looking for specifics of a plan, just how you put it together (what resources you used etc.)

Though as you asked, this year is mostly about getting to a decent level of fitness again after a couple of years off due to injury, and figuring out how to train properly on the bike having been a runner before (bike was just for fun.) Going to do a local series of TT's and possibly a road race or two later in the year, and maybe an autumn XC series. Fairly new to bike racing so it's going to be a case of working out what I want to focus on next year. Setting specific targets is tricky as I don't really have any reference from previous years.

Nope, never had a training plan.

About as structured as it got was a diary (yes, one of those old fashioned paper things that you write in with a pen...) with a week to a view. About £5 from WHSmiths. I used to write down whatever riding I'd done each day, it was useful just to keep track of things and be able to look back at the end of a month/year and see my results and mileage.

Got me through a few years of middle ranks of Expert MTB and floating around the upper ranks of 2nd Cat on road.

Now I'm back to a lowly 3rd Cat and do the odd few races here and there when I feel like it. Never MTB race anymore and while I did that Morvelo CityCross event, the only CX race I do these days is the Three Peaks.

Throughout all of that I kind of knew how my body reacted and what I needed to do. Won a few races but just do it for the fun these days.

Forgive the intrusion, but are intervals THAT good? I have 2 x 1 hour (lunchtime) slots in the week and a 3-4hr ride at the weekend so rather than trying to ride the weekly rides at full pelt, would I be
better doing the 4* 4 minutes on, 2 mins off stuff, and riding the rest of the half hour say at easy pace?

not looking for specifics of a plan, just how you put it together (what resources you used etc.)

Forgive the intrusion, but are intervals THAT good?

I think so. And I think the general consensus is that if you have limited time then do intervals.

Not really as my schedule changes all the time so I end up doing some stronglifts 5x5 when im not at work, if I am then theres a chance I should be able to do a dumbell workout at home instead. And I try to ride 5-10 miles a day on the road bike either before or after work depending what shift I'm on! Oh and cyclical keto diet.

Not training for anything in particular, just my constant strive to get buff 😆

Double post!

Forgive the intrusion, but are intervals THAT good?

I think so too, for a number of reasons:
Efficient use of otherwise wasted 1 hour slots. 1 hour is long enough to warm up, do a few hard intervals, warm down and it's short enough to be able to recover quickly before your next slot, unlike a full-pelt 3 hour session that leaves you wrecked for days.

Counters the typical amateur athlete tendency to make easy sessions too hard and hard sessions too easy - 100% effort intervals are easy to gauge effort levels for (try not to black out or vomit too much).

Gets me out of the office at lunchtime (also makes my colleagues think I'm some sort of awesome sportsman, how little they know...).

The majority of my training time is short lunchtime interval-style sessions. Although I don't race, I can feel the benefits when I occasionally get out on a 2-4 hour ride at the weekends. I don't think that it's possible to make big advances in endurance by doing just short interval sessions, but it certainly seems possible to maintain fitness by doing them.

In reply to the OP, I'm not following a fixed training plan this year, but in the past I've read Friel's book and drawn up plans based on that. His blog is also very interesting and fills in a few gaps. Currently I just try to go on feel, but keeping in mind the general principles about nutrition, session content and cycle planning that I've picked up.

Forgive the intrusion, but are intervals THAT good?

Unless I'm racing or recovering then a lot of my training is interval based, usually no more than an hour and that includes warm up/down. My recovery rides are generally around 2 hours in Z1/2. Will also through in hill climbing reps too. Need to plan it well though as it's very hard knowing what to do to improve and what to do to maintain.

Usually I vary my intervals depending on what I'm trying to improve/ maintain. Tonight is cruise shifting intervals where I will ride high Z4 for a minute, then change down a gear and increase effort to Z5a/b for 30 seconds. Repeat for 30 minutes (20 sets)

Thresholds are similar to others above and speed intervals are 1 min on (flat out)/ 1 min off, also do sprint intervals when outside too. Try pyramid intervals, they're brutal!!

Need to plan it well though as it's very hard knowing what to do to improve and what to do to maintain.

Yeah I guess this is what is behind my request. Been doing broadly similar routines of intervals and varying them based on measurements of FTP. Want to make sure what I'm doing is actually moving things forward and not just maintaining what I currently have. So I wanted to put together a new training plan and wondering what resources were available to make sure it's a good one. I'll just have to get stuck in to Joe's book, hopefully a lot of it will be pretty obvious having read loads of running books.