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MSP - not to play devils advocate but based on what MrBlobby said, for real life riding and exercises thereof - hill climbing, cadence changes etc - isn't it less realistic? I quite the like the idea of understanding my power output and its relation to cadence and specifically the effect of different gears on climbs & long intervals.
Not sure if I've missed a point but its sounds like a machine weights vs free weights argument at the gym...?
Current thinking is that it just makes it less like proper riding
I can see a danger of not getting enough proper riding in through winter as well, it works well for those evening 45-60 min sufferfest videos in the evening, which I think throw in enough variance within an interval anyway. But I have also just ordered myself some new warm gloves, overshoes and a giro merino underhelmet cap so that I still get out and ride at weekends over the next couple of months.
I am not a racer, so my goal is just to be fitter and leaner for summer to enjoy my riding more, those with more specific racing goals might want to use it differently than I do.
hill climbing, cadence changes etc - isn't it less realistic?
I don't think so, your effort goes up and down, just like real life, I usually try and keep a fairly constant cadence in real life also, until it becomes impossible. It would be nice to get my hands on a power meter some point soon to see just what happens when I go out on a real ride.
I did get the KK smart control unit which has a big flywheel, I suspect it acts a lot more realistic than most.
I am not a racer, so my goal is just to be fitter and leaner for summer to enjoy my riding more
That's an awesome reason - wish more people i know would grasp that idea.
I have a friend that loves riding his MTB, but hardly ever rides as every ride turns into a torture session as he's barely fit enough to climb a speed bump.
If a bit of erg mode now can give you +grins in summer then totally worth it.
😀 riding a bike, whether just going for a ride or racing, is so much more enjoyable if you're fit!
I have a friend that loves riding his MTB, but hardly ever rides as every ride turns into a torture session as he's barely fit enough to climb a speed bump.
Sounds familiar. Some of mine are now considering e-bikes.
I did sufferfest angels today, and after bumping up my ftp from 200 to 250 over the past month, I found the first 10 min (over under)interval really hard, then it got much easier and I think I could probably have handled and extra 40 ftp on the later intervals.
Now that does relate to how long I find it takes me to warm up on a real ride, but I also wonder how it relates to the trainer warming up, if I should calibrate it at the end of a session, so far I have only done so from cold.
I'm using erg mode on my tacx flux with TR and really liking it. It doesn't mimic real riding at all but it does eliminate the faff of finding the right gear/cadence combo for your power target. It also gives you nowhere to hide on intervals. I think as long as you also work a bit on your core and do some actual bike riding then these workouts can be a massive benefit to fitness.
As an aside, has anyone else noticed that the TR app on their laptop makes their wifi go slow? Really gets in the way of watching netflix.
So, I'm about to start speciality tomorrow. Some questions:
a) Theres now "Short Track XC" as well as "Cross Country Olympic" - which one for BC Regional A 1:30h races - XCO?
b) I also notice that neither start with an FTP test - why is that? I'd full intended to be testing tomorrow after completing build and resting over Christmas. Why wouldn't I now?
c) As per an [url= http://blog.trainerroad.com/how-to-adjust-your-training-when-you-have-more-than-one-goal-event-2/ ]extension of the blog for Athlete No 1 [/url]on the subject, with me racing B races once a month, is it right to essentially break my month down into the last few weeks of speciality repeated each time vis a vis
1st week = 5th week of plan
2nd week = 6th week of plan
3rd week = 7th week of plan
4th week = 8th week of plan + race.... and repeat?
Bear in mind that for c) the weekends are swapped for either club rides or 25m TT's, and some week day sessions for 10m TT's.
From May to July I'll be riding 1 x weekly evening race so I'd suggest this period only has taper weeks/workouts in it.
Does this sound right? I am wondering whether weeks 3&4 above should both be the taper / rest weeks.
Thinking of doing this monthly. What works out cheaper, credit card or paypal
Thanks in advance
a) Theres now "Short Track XC" as well as "Cross Country Olympic" - which one for BC Regional A 1:30h races - XCO?
I thought short track XC is XCE? as your racing XCo, stick to that.
Currently planning to do a full base, build and speciality leading up to cx season even though will still be racing xc this year. Should start in Feb, but will probably start next week so I've finished base by the first national in Pembrey. I'm sure I'll start trying to fit in vo2 max stuff in between the base for xc races 🙄
Grrr - 3rd time in a row I've achieved roughly the same FTP, despite showing stronger "outside" specifically on climbs and sustained intervals such as lead outs or long flat MTB sections.
They've all been the 8 min test - I know Vo2max is a weakness for me but also that I've improved completion of intervals and workouts that I haven't before.
Last time I increased was with a 20min test - maybe I'll try that next time.
Grrr - 3rd time in a row I've achieved roughly the same FTP, despite showing stronger "outside" specifically on climbs and sustained intervals such as lead outs or long flat MTB sections.
Which goes to show that the result of an artificial FTP test is just one part of the puzzle. Might be that you've gotten stronger at recovering and repeated efforts, or maybe one of the many other aspect of outdoor riding that isn't reflected in FTP test.
WTF have they done to the iPhone app? After today's update I can't scroll across and see the stats for the in progress interval now. What a PITA. Am I missing something?
Argghhh they've intentionally removed it from this version. Coming back in a new version soon apparently. What a massive PITA 🙁
Out of curiosity, why do you want / need to see the stats for the current interval? If you've slipped below or above the target then aren't you better off just getting back onto target for the remainder rather than attempting to overcompensate and bring the average back on track?
Helps stay on target IMO. If the interval average is slipping a bit then you know you need to be pushing a bit harder. Also big loss is accumulated TSS. I'll often ride part of a session up to a TSS target, but now I've got no idea how much TSS I've accumulated.
And I like data 🙂
Anyway hugely annoying that they've removed this. There was no mention of it in the release details on the App Store. I shall write them an angry email.
Fair enough. I guess you could use your Garmin to display accumulated TSS in the meantime.
TBH I could probably swap TrainerRoad for a Garmin the way I use it as I don't really use any of the built in workouts or plans these days.
Did a session last night on the new version and it is a pain. Using a PM the power displayed does jump around a fair bit and I do tend to look at the lap average more than anything else to gauge effort, same as outdoor riding. The blob and a line thing really is a bit vague.
Once you start using your Neo in Erg mode, all of these problems will go away...
Once you start using your Neo in Erg mode, all of these problems will go away...
If I ever get it! My LBS tells me the next batch aren't due at the distributors on the 9th, and can't even seem to tell me if mine will be allocated from that batch 😕
Not convinced about erg mode. I can see me moving to Zwift for z1/z2/z3 rides and for intervals just using some other app that syncs with Training Peaks (maybe the Wahoo one with my RFLKT.)
I do like TrainerRoad for the ability to create custom workouts though and to automatically scale them based on FTP. I'd have a look at Golden Cheetah as it does something similar but it sounds like they're having a spat with Training Peaks and dropping all their metrics.
Back on the programme, sweet spot base starting with hte 8 min test. Reasonable jump so happy with that. Actually enjoyed it, or at least the shakes afterwards!
Nice work ferrals. Are you not still mid cross season?
Contemplating a test myself tonight. Kind of at the end of a block. Not done a proper test in ages. Legs feel pretty good. Think I'll go 20 min. Not sure where to pitch it really, shall probably try the first 5 mins at a pace just a few watts higher than 105% and see how it goes.
No welsh league finished before Christmas, I skipped the last round though so have had a full month off racing. Noticed today you can 'sign up' to a plan and it ticks off as you do them, plus you can assign 'outdoor ride' to ones you've mimicked outside so it doesn't look like you skipped it. Quite a nice feature, would be even better if there was a two-way link with strava so you could actually assign the ride you did.
Need to have a think and decide which mtb races I'm going to do and how seriously and then work out if I'm going to strictly follow the whole of base build etc for cx or mix in a few speciality weeks to keep the high end primed during xc season.
I'm coming your way for a round of the Scott MTB Marathon series Ferral is your consiodering that?
I died on the Turbo last night. Aware that I recently downed 400mg ibruprofen for my hurty-face, 48 hours after FTP Test+Zwift 45k Training ride I couldn't maintain a 120% interval for more than two minutes without severe leg pain! Decided I might do more damage than good, I packed it in pronto.
Don't think so Kryton, I'd put in an application to hold a standard xc race on that date before the mtb-marathon dates were released and because of felling activities may not be able to change the date. Not 100% sure what we'll do if can't change date, possible shelve it or just do something super low key. Either way I'm brewing a sneaky plan to get a pass to come and race the national at Wasing towards the end of the month so doing the marathon wouldn't be allowed!
Edit. Been thinking about training, how do you think it would affect the base plan if I switched the Sunday long endurance ride for an xco race sim of 1.5-2hrs? Can't see me having the time for 3-4hr Sunday dries when the baby arrives anyway!
Well I thought the FTP I was training to was a bit low but not 7% low. Going to play havoc with the plan. After a winter of steady volume that was a hideous way to spend 20 mins 😕
Your FTP is up by 7%? Or were you using an estimate? Either way, nice work!
Well I finally had internet installed yesterday and my new turbo cave is setup ready with a. 32inch tv, PlayStation, remote fan and nice iPad stand. And guess what I'm sat on the sofa in my slippers finishing off the last of the Xmas chocolates, drinking ipa amd watching the strictly come dancing final. I am officially middle aged. I'll start back this weekend....
Nice work MrBlobby.
My inability to raise my FTP on TR remains a mystery, after i "commuted" today on the winter bike and accidentally smashed all strava Pb's which involve a climb - and i wasnt trying!
Lol at DT78
DT78, nice cave!
Gray, thanks, last was a bit of an estimate to base winter training on. Still a good few watts more than the last test I did in the summer. Going to make a right mess of my PMC chart.
Kryton, nice work, there's lots more to going fast than FTP 🙂
Yes I'm quite pleased with my new cave, it even has an ensuite :). Just need to finish those damn chocolates first though.
Kryton, nice work, there's lots more to going fast than FTP
Over the last few days ive tried to think about this, based on feelings through proper riding and TR. i think two things have happened; my muscular endurance has definitely improved and my pain barrier has changed. For the latter i realised that i was riding conservatively, subconciously holding back when it "hurt" in case i couldnt finish the race/ride i was on. Now ive moved to Jens territory, whereby i can push through the pain, engage more endurance and use pedal / breathing technique to extend my power / range, then when that section is over carry on as before
Its odd that ive been doing that since September with TR but never before, and now it seems to be second nature on rides and is helping me. I've not turned into Schurter in 4 months, but I've certainly improved in my ability to ride to my limits. And I've still, 3lbs to drop 🙂
Im gagging to race / TT to see how these things work out under stress
Nice one Kryton.
I often find it remarkable how much punishment the body will take if you put your mind to it. 😀
Now ive moved to Jens territory, whereby i can push through the pain, engage more endurance and use pedal / breathing technique to extend my power / range, then when that section is over carry on as before
Good work. Much the same sort of thing here last winter. Did a lot of work and got a lot faster but FTP hadn't gone up by much.
Im gagging to race / TT to see how these things work out under stress
Probably wrong side of London for you but Newbury do an early season club TT on H10/3A late Feb. Was bloody freezing last year. Silly time of year to be out in a skinsuit 🙂
Lol, skinsuit in February.
Castelli thermosuit maybe - not as aero, but i saw some graph from gore promoting windstopper that suggested significant performance gain from regulating body temperature.
Lol, skinsuit in February.
🙂 Actually went ok that day but blimey, standing around for some 10 mins waiting for my start, that was hideous!
Got thinking about 20 min and 8 min tests having done the 20 last night. A max 20 is quite hard to do as you'll almost certainly set off with a pace in mind so from that point the result is somewhat set. If I'd set of 5 watts higher could I have sustained that, maybe, and that would give a different result. Highlights that it is just an approximation.
Anyone do [url= https://cyclingtips.com/2010/01/how-to-do-a-map-ramp-test/ ]MAP ramp tests[/url] instead? I wonder if this produces a more significant number as you basically go to failure so it doesn't depend on guesswork on pacing?
With the increased usage from the smart trainer, even within a month of using it, happy to see some of my levels being raised from when I was in better shape and more commited a few years ago.
5 Second 972 31/01/2014
10 Second 913 31/01/2014
20 Second 768 31/01/2014
30 Second 612 13/02/2013
1 Minute 446 13/02/2013
2 Minute 367 13/02/2013
5 Minute 327 13/02/2013
[b]10 Minute 296 05/01/2017
15 Minute 290 05/01/2017
20 Minute 286 05/01/2017
30 Minute 265 05/01/2017
60 Minute 242 05/01/2017[/b]
90 Minute 213 07/05/2013
When I started with this last month I wasn't even close to this, I was struggling with an FTP of 200 now I am up to 270.
MSP, out of curiosity, what are you using to measure your power?
60 Minute 242When I started with this last month I wasn't even close to this, I was struggling with an FTP of 200 now I am up to 270.
Not according to your own stats?
If I'd set of 5 watts higher could I have sustained that
The last test I did where my FTP increased was a 20min test whereby I did exactly that. I rode it as a negative split, keeping to power +5w in the first 10, reamping up +10w from 11-15mins, then slowly ramp to all-out in the final 5.
Although I then started this way in 10m TT's (remember I was new to that last year) I actually went faster riding consistently as possible to 120% FTP for the duration.
60 Minute 242
When I started with this last month I wasn't even close to this, I was struggling with an FTP of 200 now I am up to 270.
Not according to your own stats?
Max power achieved over an hour isn't the only way to estimate FTP. 296 watts for 10 minutes suggests that 300 over 8 minutes is likely, which would correspond to an FTP of 270 watts.
When I started with this last month I wasn't even close to this, I was struggling with an FTP of 200 now I am up to 270.
If you've not ridden the turbo in a long time much of this is likely you adapting to riding on the turbo rather than a big bump in fitness. Reckon if you've not used the turbo much it takes a few weeks of consistent riding to make the adaptation and for you to be able to test to the maximum of your potential. Some turbos need more adaptation time than others. Still cool to see the numbers go up though 🙂
Not according to your own stats?
I have been bumping up my FTP in TR according to how I feel dong sufferfest sessions, if I feel I could give more I bump it up a bit for the next session. 270 is the level I currently have it set at. That may not correlate to the science, but it is what I am working to.
MSP, out of curiosity, what are you using to measure your power?
Virtual power from my trainer, I would love to have a power meter, but it isn't the highest priority on my list of shiny things.
On my own looking after the kids last night so took the opportunity for my first turbo session, 2hr beehive whilst watching hateful eight (rubbish). soles of my feet and arse are a bit sore this morning. Think I need to break myself back in.....
Rode Lamarck yesterday (4 x 10 mins at FTP) and felt surprisingly in control all the way through. Think it's about time to retest my FTP.
For Gods sake. Beta Blockers might blunt your performance the Doc said...
Too right. Couldn't get above 120bpm at VO2max w/kg and couldn't maintain the power either, I guess my muscles are starved of oxygen from my heart being limited to 2nd gear...