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it'll be a mental knock just at the start of a big plan
That's a tricky one, i can see exactly where you're coming from. Easy to see a number lower than expected and have your head go down.
However, for me its illogical to have a mental knock before the plan starts.
The FTP will purely be a starting baseline, neither something to be excited or disturbed about - its what happens over the following months that can lead to disappointment.
The risk is that if an old FTP value is used which is too high then it leads to a month of continual perceived under-performance as target figures will in fact be too hard.
for me its illogical to have a mental knock before the plan starts.
Are you not familiar with any of Kryton's other threads? 😉
Lol
Yeah sorry so work is knocking my schedule out, and if I revert to the proper Wednesday workout I'll be too late home tomorrow to do Thursays. So today is Tuesday's workout, Friday is Thursday...
Last tested in March thereabouts, mid race intervals have felt quite hard. I'll give it a go, and if it's only a few watts under I'll leave it as it, if over I'll adjust up.
uuurgh, aweful yet with only a 3% drop. It had everything, a wheezing jump off for the asthma pump on interval one, and 2 x retching in interval 2. Despite a pre workout double espresso my head wasnt there either - although I kept telling myself to work through it, I knew it was half hearted encouragement.
Its also so warm/humid on the patio sweat was running down my arms in rivers. Also Mrs K and Little Miss KJ02 both have chest infections & colds and me the beginnings sore throat so that one have helped.
With all those [s]excuses [/s] issues, six months of racing and a fat boozy August", a 3% loss isn't bad, I'll stick with that.
Kryton, get yourself on Zwift! It's great for social rides. You can find a z2 group ride and be chatting away and concentrating on staying in the bunch and boom, 2hrs have flown by.
You can also run TR simultaneously with another sensor so can have TR for detail and Zwift for entertainment. Or you can load TR workouts into Zwifts workout module (infinitely customisable too).
Oh, and follow CoachK on Twitter- every time his tweets appear on my feed I think of you 😀
Success occurs when your dreams get bigger than your excuses.
Lol, my dreams are fine its my mental strength being sapped by work at the moment.
He says with an excuse 😀
I'm being a hypocrite here by the way 😉
Try another one:
A positive mind finds a way it can be done; a negative mind Iooks for aII the ways it can't be done.
In all seriousness, give the Zwift free trial a whirl. I'm currently deciding whether to taper a bit for XC Rampage on Sunday or try and do a virtual race on Zwift on Friday I've been looking forward to and hope for the best on Sunday lol 😀
Hmm. So I just completed Ebbetts. Although the 3rd interval felt a bit hard, I did the 4th at 101%. I've put my prior lower FTP up by 101% as well, but I'm never sure with sweet spot how much Hurty legs/staring into a bucket there should be - in this case none but a mild ache an hour after.
Total volume of 32 mins of sweetspot, not much leg hurty at all imo. SS for me is more a gradual accumulation of fatigue that starts to feel quite hard after about 50 mins.
Something I didn't do last year which I regret, so whats the collective/TR official thoughts ona) Deferring the Sunday/weekend session to a Club (road) ride? Forgive me I know this means I'm "off plan" and club rides are traditionally regarded as no mans land in development terms, but they do get the miles in and there's stuff to be learned / the social aspect
b) Deferring the Sunday/weekend session to a MTB ride? Again, it has no plan structure but does have technical benefits, I am an MTB Racer after all.
After getting up to speed with the recent chatter on here I just wanted to offer my thoughts.
You've already said a couple times that this season's training seems pretty bleak with all the indoor sessions on the docket. That said, I think either of these options will be just fine for the sake of keeping you sane this season! You can't get the most out of your interval training if you're mentally gassed the entire season. You can even switch back and forth between options a & b in case you find one benefits you more than the other. If you're not seeing your desired results, then you can adjust further and figure out how to best sneak those club/mtb rides in with your intervals. Make sure to take advantage of additional entertainment while doing indoor sessions to keep things interesting as well.
I also wanted to offer some thoughts on your planned season.
Since your season is over such an extended period of time, be aware of how your body is responding to the stress you're applying to it with your races and training. If you start feeling pooped, it'll probably be best to schedule your recovery downturn earlier than you previously had planned. Just something to be aware of. 🙂
Always remember that the plans can be adjusted to fit your personal needs. Good luck this season mate! Take advantage of the podcast and send in your coaching questions too: [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/podcast?utm_source=Forum&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=Forum/ ]Podcast[/url]
[url= https://www.trainerroad.com/how-it-works?utm_source=forums&utm_medium=forum&utm_content=How%20it%20Works&utm_campaign=forums/ ]Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System[/url]
I would really like to find some structured programme so that i can train for some TT next year. Many years ago when i had a go it was just riding as hard as i could...sometimes with a hr monitor.As im now 50 and want to get the best out of my limited genetic material, can anyone recommend me a programme that i can use on the leisure centre wattbikes? I work shifts so some days would struggle to get more than an hr to train. Other days i will be free lots of days. I have a v basic turbo trainer and a garmin tri watch which measures speed and cadence on my bike as well as gps and hr etc.
Basically where do i start?
We can most certainly help you in the TT department. 🙂 Shoot an email over to support@trainerroad.com when you get a chance, and they'll double-check all your equipment/devices to help you get started!
We look forward to getting some training in with you real soon. Cheers!
[url= https://www.trainerroad.com/how-it-works?utm_source=forums&utm_medium=forum&utm_content=How%20it%20Works&utm_campaign=forums/ ]Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System[/url]
So I'm ill, I'm racing cx Sunday and it's raining tomorrow. Normally I'd do an hour of openers tomorrow but I think I'll probably just do 30-45mins, and will do it on trainerroad. any suggestions for a work out? I am thinking pahrah which is meant to be a pre race warm up, but should work as openers too. Any others?
Any of the Truuli variants - is what i use.
Feel too ill to even do that 🙁 will just content myself with fine tuning gears and brakes
Can people give me some advice about using a smart trainer?
Used Trainerroad last winter with a normal Tacx trainer but a few weeks back I bought a Smart trainer (Tacx Flow Smart).
I've set it up and done the 20 min test.
Did my first workout tonight but some of the intervals were over the place as I'm confused about using my gears.
On my old dumb trainer I would alter the gearing to enable me to get to the correct power during a workout.
However, with a smart trainer do I just leave the bike in the same gear (if so presumably any gear I choose)?
Tonight I was shifting to a harder gear for the intervals but a few saw the Power reading go really high, almost like the trainer wasn't recognising I was pushing harder. Seemed better when I shifted 5-10 secs before the interval began.
Any advice appreciated.
Just had a look around on Trainerroad and found the answer: I shouldn't be shifting 😳
My turbo is now out and the fans are plugged in. 4 months of no trainer road. Of course I have been paying for it all that time as I never bothered to cancel my membership. Pain of a different sort . I'm rambling .... sigh, it's trainer time.
I've fallen right into the groove. Shaky legs, pain, dizziness, slight wanna-puke feeling at the end of intervals, battling through to the end... and doing it again.
But strangely I'm loving it, especially as this year I'm completing vo2max intervals a first for me.
Think I can squeeze in one more week of weekday outside work and then it's turbo time.
I'm back on mine. 1st test shows a decent hike in FTP this summer. I'm in wk 2 of sweet spot base again, supplemented by outdoor rides. I may leave a bit of intensity in though as that is my weak spot.
As I said earlier in the thread, I first got TR last year when recovering from a big surgery - my first FTP test was 160W! I'm back up to 295W now (virtual power on a road machine so who knows what it is really, I'm just chuffed to have nearly double my power in 12 months). I'm getting back to where I was four or so years ago before I got ill.
What worries me is that given that my volume & intensity is going down (no more chaingang this year!) my FTP seems more likely to drop than increase over the winter! My weakness has always been 1-5 min power so I'm not sure if I should leave in a VO2 max session each week as long as my recovery feels ok. Anybody got any thoughts on that?
I've just worked out that in order to complete base build and specialism in time for my first enduro towards the end of May , I have to start next week. I've included one week off for Christmas and 2 for being sick (colds etc not vomiting as a result of trainer road).
Will be my second winter on trainerroad, but the thing I noticed last year was I trained almost exclusively sitting down. Which I don't do when I mountain bike. Something I should address?
But strangely I'm loving it
I take that back. I am mentally tired - 12-15hrs days and I'm shitting bricks over a meeting with the Global boss I've been summon to tomorrow but...
Lamark today - 4 x 10 at FTP, 2 minute breaks. The first one I thought, "I can do this", the second one "this is going to be more difficult than I thought", the third about halfway through my shorts started to cut my gonads in half so I had to pause for adjustment then finish BUT the 4th, jeez. My legs were in pain after 90 secs, and I struggled to about 5 mins in then had to do 3 mins at 200w to rest them. I finished the last 2 mins at FTP, ignored the end of the interval to push out 30 seconds by 30 seconds more and got to an extra 2 mins before cool-down.
But after, my legs hurt and felt rather wobbly, it wasn't fun at all.
Not TrainerRoad, but since I missed out on the Etape this year I've signed up for this:
http://www.kinomap.com/race/letapedutour-indoor2016
Tips on a long workout? I was planning a Surrey ride tomorrow but it looks like Surrey will be underwater, so the alternative is 90 mins of aerobic - im on week 6 of SS2 low volume.
How to get through 90 mins of hum drum beyond the usual ipod, laptop...? Stick a movie on?
Movie or a series on Netflix.
Kennedy Peak is quite a good one for big block of z2/z3. Just cut it short when you get to your time/TSS target and whack the percent up or down depending on how much z3 you want. Or if you want a bit more variety just double up on something like Birch.
Thanks. The plan suggests Andrews... it looks dull. Although the opportunity is there to treat it as a low intensity TT.
Does look very dull.
I knocked up this custom one pretty quickly...
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/97916-pal-z2-z3-2-00
Think it helps to vary the power a fair bit within the zone, means you don't just sit at a steady power and cadence for too long.
I think it'll be Sufferfest TGTTOS as a ride replacement tomorrow. Was really looking forward riding my bike :-/
Restarted again this week with some gentle sessions to try to get back into the early morning habit. Not looking forward to the first FTP test.
Subs are now just under a tenner with the pound dropping, zwift has a couple of free months on stave premium. How does the training feature compare?
Think it might be a couple of hours z3 for me tomorrow too
Frustrating week, not helped by racing on telly.
Although I've stuck diligently to the plan, I find these rest weeks hard, I just want to go and have a bash at something.
I shall look forward to Tuesdays 8 min test.
Interesting that so many people find rest weeks hard. I usually find i'm really pretty tired by the end of a 3 week block and more than happy to have 5-7 days taking it easy.
I'm with fifeandy, at the end of a winter block I can often barely manage an easy z2 ride!
Frustrating time here too, was all going well but pretty much lost two whole weeks with back trouble. Easing back into it on the turbo before heading back out onto road. A couple of hours z2/z3 tonight, maybe a cut short Kennedy Peak.
Over various threads, i have a history of "not resting". Im trying to follow TR plans and advice as much as possible this year and not defer to so much riding, but at 100k a week average recently it does feel as though im not doing enlugh, even though this weeks 130k on a Turbo (not all at once!) sounds a lot.
My race 2016 profile / positions started well for March April then tailed off toward July August, i think that means i got tired over the season where everyone else was more consitent. So his time im determined to work through base and build over winter, hit specialality then rest before Race 1 in March (Peak 1), maintain through mid season then do a shortened 4 week speciality to Peak 2 in July as advised by TR. I must admit im not trusting all the rest/ maintain bits but theres only one way to find out if it works for me.
Kryton, I thought you were getting a bit of coaching for this year. They not got a view on it?
Gibbs for me this evening. Gave up with 15 minutes to go, first turbo in ages and going straight into a boring 2hr session was too much for my will to take, developed psychosomatic knee pain and gave up.
8 min FTP test on tues morning, then a short Tabata type workout in the evening if my legs can handle it
I'm not much of a fan of 'maintaining', although can see in some ways its essential when trying to race a season long series.
The problem with trying to cling on to form after peak1 is it just leaves you knackered mentally and physically from intense intervals and with a totally erroded base.
Had my best season this year by taking a week off after peak1 then going back to a month of z2 base rides and rebuilding to a peak2 around 12 weeks later.
Currently trying to 'cling on' to a little form from peak2 for relentless (only a minor objective this year) and then looking forward to most of November slacking off.
The problem with trying to cling on to form after peak1 is it just leaves you knackered mentally and physically from intense intervals and with a totally erroded base.
I think this is what happend to me this year. Two week after my last race i went on a 140 club ride, but it ended on a 32.5kmh average. Not only had i not ridden that distance for 6 month, the pace destroyed me although i stayed on for 100k.
Mr Blobby, could you drop me an email re TT bike please?
black coffee, a banana and then the first ftp test for a long time (since around Feb) for me before breakfast this morning.
Not a sizeable increase (from 320-330ish), but I've moved up a level on the resistance settings so that will make a difference.
I could have gone a bit harder, but not as hard as the next gear up, amazing how noticable 9sp gaps are wen on a turbo. Also not well rested but as changing resistnace and knowing I've only got turbo time for a few days I figured had to re-do.
Legs are caning now but not crazily so, planning on a another session this eve.
20 min FTP test for me last Monday night at the start of the 8 week Full Distance Triathlon Base. Very chuffed with an FTP of 306 up from 236 at the start of the year.
Then comes the but. Trying to do last weeks' workouts with 306 FTP (Haku and Antelope) nearly killed me. I had to knock it down by 15% halfway through Antelope.
Week 2 started this morning with Shasta, and I kept the reduced FTP (260) and it felt much better. A challenge, but achievable.
So the question the audience, how come I was able to test and produce 306 for my FTP, when in hindsight,I'd have no chance of sustaining 306 for an hour. This was my test:
[url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4261878-20-minute-test ]https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4261878-20-minute-test[/url]
Haku: [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4278324-haku ]https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4278324-haku[/url]
Antelope: [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4285104-antelope ]https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4285104-antelope[/url]
Similar but the other way here. Last test 6 weeks ago - end of season so perhaps tired - was down 15% on the pre season test.
I've just done 6 weeks of sweet sport riding at that reduced FTP completing all of the intervals hard but well... ...only to drop 3% on my FTP this lunchtime.
🙁
So the question the audience, how come I was able to test and produce 306 for my FTP, when in hindsight,I'd have no chance of sustaining 306 for an hour. This was my test:
A) Looks like your test was all over the place - 40w increase 5mins in.
B) Something is indeed badly wrong if you found Haku and Antelope particularly hard. Maybe something wrong with the calibration of your PM during test?
C) Your comment on Antelope suggests you were tired and no power right from the outset - that's a prime candidate for knocking session on head - all the fatigue for none of the benefit.
Take a read of the following blogs from TrainerRoad. Getting a good ftp test takes practice. One thing you're not supposed to do is surge at the end for example.
[url= http://blog.trainerroad.com/ftp-assessment-tips/ ]http://blog.trainerroad.com/ftp-assessment-tips/[/url]
[url= http://blog.trainerroad.com/how-to-get-your-best-ftp-results/ ]http://blog.trainerroad.com/how-to-get-your-best-ftp-results/[/url]
I noticed my HR was unusually high for this test, topping out at just under my max HR. No wonder I struggled, I wonder why.
Anyway, I made a graph of my FTP over 3 years - numbers fictitious trend realistic 🙂
[url= https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8643/29780346674_c2991f6a02.jp g" target="_blank">https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8643/29780346674_c2991f6a02.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/MnA4x1 ]Capture[/url]
Despite periodic ups and downs the trend is 7% FTP increase PA. I'm assuming thats Ok.
A) Looks like your test was all over the place - 40w increase 5mins in.
Deliberate increase, as I was comfortable at the lower wattage so dropped a gear.
B) Something is indeed badly wrong if you found Haku and Antelope particularly hard. Maybe something wrong with the calibration of your PM during test?
I did change trainers between the test and Hakue/Antelope. But the Tacx Vortex I did the test on was calibrated, and the new Tacx Neo is calibration free.
C) Your comment on Antelope suggests you were tired and no power right from the outset - that's a prime candidate for knocking session on head - all the fatigue for none of the benefit.
Probably fair assessment.
Shasta this morning felt much better at the lower FTP of 260 [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4298064-shasta ]https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4298064-shasta[/url]