[Closed] Trail/AM hardtails - spoilt for choice!

I want a 29+ Carbon hardtail with modern geometry, if that helps?

Chromag?
Canfield?
Stanton?
Commencal?
2Souls?
Mondraker Vantage from Evans

I want a 29+ Carbon hardtail with modern geometry, if that helps?

Trek Stache?

ragley?
nukeproof?

Of note is that with all of these I'd be building them up initially as 26", with a u-turn Lyrik, and then possibly moving to 650b later

on-one also of course. 🙂

I remember people building up the Stanton Switchback on 26 wheels and loving it (just FYI).

Chromag?

Canfield?

Stanton?

Commencal?

2Souls?

Mondraker Vantage from Evans

Have a look at Stanton bikes, I've just picked up a 2nd hand Switchback from on here. Fits your bill perfectly, frame quality looks spot on too, some really nice touches here and there. Will report back on ride quality over the weekend...

So more to the point, as someone who's never ridden one and is unlikely to find a test ride any time soon, is the low bb, steep seat tube and extra length/slackness of the Oka or Eccentric actually going to be beneficial for general riding, or really only on the downs? And will a sorted, shorter travel bike be generally more useful and predictable?

All the people bigging up the Soul can't be wrong, right?

Have a look at Stanton bikes, I've just picked up a 2nd hand Switchback from on here. Fits your bill perfectly, frame quality looks spot on too, some really nice touches here and there. Will report back on ride quality over the weekend...

I do like the look of the Stantons, but people seem to rate the earlier ones more than the 631 version, but that means 27.2 seatpost, and the new Slackline looks ace but the BB drop is maybe a bit much for 26 I would have thought. Eh, idk

Cotic. You will never regret the decision.

lol 🙂

so you are looking for...

light, pretty, cheap, high-bb non vomit inducing frames that work with the wrong wheel size?

Can't go wrong with a low bb. What's the point of a higher one? Apart from making it harder to go around corners?

150mm travel on a ht is pointless.

I have a cannondale trail sl which is ace but I do think that it could do with being half an inch longer for riding about. I should probably have a large but then it's gate sized and therefore crud.

Can't go wrong with a low bb. What's the point of a higher one?

so he can run the wrong size wheels obviously, low bbs on 650b frames are all an anti 26" conspiracy.

jut picking up your points against the earlier bikes 🙂

I agree.

Good luck - there are tons of good bikes out there.

If you want cheap then there's the Datrmoor too of course but it sounds like you are a little more picky than cheap. Don't blame you.

I do like the look of the Stantons, but people seem to rate the earlier ones more than the 631 version, but that means 27.2 seatpost, and the new Slackline looks ace but the BB drop is maybe a bit much

The 631 list some of the magic of the original one. The new one is bloody brilliant. I borrowed one for two weeks and it does get back to feel, zip and zing of the original. If I'm honest, it's more compliant than my Ti Switchback (second gen).

so he can run the wrong size wheels obviously, low bbs on 650b frames are all an anti 26" conspiracy.

lol

so you are looking for...

light, pretty, cheap, high-bb non vomit inducing frames that work with the wrong wheel size?

Pretty much, that's why I narrowed it down to the Soul, BFe, Oka and Eccentric

Can't go wrong with a low bb. What's the point of a higher one? Apart from making it harder to go around corners?

150mm travel on a ht is pointless.

I have a cannondale trail sl which is ace but I do think that it could do with being half an inch longer for riding about. I should probably have a large but then it's gate sized and therefore crud.

Well this is what I'm wondering. Is low always better? Why have Cotic stuck with relatively conservative geometry if so?

The 631 list some of the magic of the original one. The new one is bloody brilliant. I borrowed one for two weeks and it does get back to feel, zip and zing of the original. If I'm honest, it's more compliant than my Ti Switchback (second gen).

that's really good to hear - less fussed on the new colours though

so he can run the wrong size wheels obviously, low bbs on 650b frames are all an anti 26" conspiracy.

*mumbles something about chuckability and pointless standards*

a few rides on an older Transition Trans Am (built up heavy as sin) that I've sold on to get something sproingier and dropper-compatible.
The shortlist at the moment is Soul 275, BFe (26 or 275), PP Oka or NS Eccentric (budget of ~£400).

Well, my last hardtail was a Transition Trans-Am, which I replaced about 6 months ago with a Production Privee Oka.

I always liked the Transition, but the Oka is just the best hardtail I've ever had. Just a fantastic ride. It does anything and I'm loving trying to keep up(and often succeeding) with mates on carbon gnarpoon 160mm Enduroist sleds.

The Oka is brilliant.

Having said that, I'm currently maybe getting the Shan, but that's purely because I'm a tart and have always lusted after the Gulf coloured Shan. I'll be keeping the Oka if I can.

Well, my last hardtail was a Transition Trans-Am, which I replaced about 6 months ago with a Production Privee Oka.

Ooh, relevance. So the Oka doesn't lose out on the flatter, slower stuff at all being longer and slacker and all modern?

How's the press-fit BB been?

Had a Shan (longer travel version of the Oka), it was Ok on the flat dull stuff but not fabulous. the press fit BB is mildly irritating, but just consider it consumable. I replaced mine once in about 18 months.

150mm travel on a ht is pointless.

huge amounts of fun though

The Pinnacle Iroko has almost same geometry as the Oka - -4mm BB drop, +10mm Stack and +12mm Reach.
The full bike deals are rather tempting...
I shall await your judgement - I suspect not cool enough...

frame available for 250 quid too.

Has anyone ridden the Shan GT to compare to the Stanton Switchback? Thinking of either with + tyres.

I'm in the same boat. Currently have a Canfield Nimble9 in shiny Chromoly (which I don't think is ugly 😛 ) but its a bit small (medium) so looking for a change.

.

So the Oka doesn't lose out on the flatter, slower stuff at all being longer and slacker and all modern?
How's the press-fit BB been?

The Oka doesn't lose out on anything imho. It's good for all day xc as far as I can tell and a hooligan downhill.

Not heard a peep out of the press fit bb since I fitted it. I was all ready to hate it, but no, not a hint of trouble so far.

The Pinnacle Iroko has almost same geometry as the Oka - -4mm BB drop, +10mm Stack and +12mm Reach.
The full bike deals are rather tempting...
I shall await your judgement - I suspect not cool enough...

Good spot! Looks like an impressive bike, especially the 4. I want to stick to steel, but it might be helpful getting one in to test ride...

Kingdom Vendetta 😉

Orange Clockwork EVO

Recommend what you own.. Pace RC127. Belting bike.

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I ride a 26" BFe with a 150mm fork, and its just the best fun a bike could possibly be IMO. I totally accept the physics of what people say about 150mm being daft on a HT. But if I had to buy a new HT tomorrow, I would be putting a 150mm fork on that too. I've had 80m, 100mm, 140mm and 150mm HT's and the 150mm BFe is just the dogs doodaa's as far as I'm concerned.

Pace, Stanton or Chromag look equally good to my eyes, but a bike would not be appealing to me without a dropper nowadays, so I'd be looking for a frame with a dropper compatible seat post.

You need to ditch the childs wheel sizes, all the big boys are on 29ers 😀

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This.

Is low always better? Why have Cotic stuck with relatively conservative geometry if so?

Having a hard time deciding between some hardtails so I thought I'd seek further contradictory advice from people who've ridden more of them than me.

😆

Cotic. You will never regret the decision.

I did. Love what Cy is doing (and plenty of others do, obviously), but did not get on with my mk1 Solaris.

Kingdom Vendetta

This. 😀

Yeah - they look awesome. A tad over 400 notes tho 🙂

Last Fast Forward looks a hoot, never seen one, ridden one or know anybody who has but hey, its the internet so based on this, rush out and buy one 🙂

I was drawn to the Production Privee Shan GT when it was shown originally, however I recently saw the new NS Eccentric Cromo 29 which might just be the frame that eventually takes my money. Geometry wise it is a little longer than the Shan GT, which would be nice at 6ft4!

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My god those Tyres! truly awful

Pimpmaster Jazz - Member
I did. Love what Cy is doing (and plenty of others do, obviously), but did not get on with my mk1 Solaris.

Any reason why you didn't get on with it?

No flaming or anything. Had mine 2 years but looking back over the past year ice realised how little I've used it. Trying to work out why and if it's time to move on.

150mm BFe is just the dogs doodaa's

My BFe is 26" wheels and 160mm travel but basically - I agree with this.

Pimpmaster Jazz - Member
I did. Love what Cy is doing (and plenty of others do, obviously), but did not get on with my mk1 Solaris.
Any reason why you didn't get on with it?

No flaming or anything. Had mine 2 years but looking back over the past year ice realised how little I've used it. Trying to work out why and if it's time to move on.

Curious. I built one up at the start of the year, mk2, in plus flavour. I can't stop riding it. There's an element of new bike syndrome in there, I know....but it just does everything pretty well. Especially on those ponderous days where I just have no idea where I will end up.

Cotic. You will never regret the decision.
I did. Love what Cy is doing (and plenty of others do, obviously), but did not get on with my mk1 Solaris

Me too - but mine was a BFe. I really didn't get that bike and wasn't sad to see it go.

To me it was too stiff, harsh, heavy and felt like a plough (not in a good way). The Slackline was a revelation by comparison and cemented my Stanton fan boyism.

No flaming or anything. Had mine 2 years but looking back over the past year ice realised how little I've used it. Trying to work out why and if it's time to move on.

No, not taking it as such.

There was probably an element of component issue as the wheels were awful, but I always felt perched 'on' the bike, as opposed to sitting 'in' it. I was running a 120mm fork which also isn't ideal (but also not unknown) but the handling always felt too twitchy - fun at low speeds, but not fun when those big wheels start generating centifrugal (sp?) force. Twice over the bars on a steep descent was enough to convince me we weren't getting on.

I use a 29er hardtail now which I love, so it's certainly not a big wheel thing. I've also ridden said steep descent on several other bikes and had little fear of catapulting into a tree.

...but it just does everything pretty well. Especially on those ponderous days where I just have no idea where I will end up.

This is what I wanted, and it's what the new bike does. Horses for courses.

Thanks Pimpmaster Jazz.

I actually tried changing from 100mm to 120mm to try and rekindle things but it didn't.

Anyway, back on topic now.

dartmoor hornet?

I'm currently riding a Dartmoor Hornet.
It can take 26 or 650b wheels...im using 26 for maximum tyre clearance as I like 2.3 to 2.5 tyres on a hardtail, I'm using a 150mm Revelation fork and it's bloody brilliant...this isn't new bike syndrome, I rode it back to back with my steel Ragley Piglet and it is a better ride....the reach is longer despite both being 16 inch frames and the bottom bracket is lower....i had to adjust my style slightly to avoid pedal strikes but it's now second nature, I had it at BPW recently and it was confidence inspiring and I was so much faster

It's nice and light (2kgs I think) and despite being aluminium it isn't harsh, I've had a Dialled Alpine, an On One evo, a Ragley and a 45650b previously and it's the best of the bunch...the reviews online are good and it's in stock in this country (i think they're a Polish brand) and they only cost £200!....well within your budget.

Mines black with the newer black Revelation forks and black Pacenti wheels, it looks awesome and so much better than the cheap price tag would suggest.

I paid £160 for my hornet frame in petrol from hibike.de

Yeah I dilly dallyed for too long over what new frame to get and the price jumped up to £200 briefly, I think they're down to £180-ish again now's
Complete bargain though, cracking bike.

For the long fork heroes....... how on earth do you not go over the bars? If my front end dropped 150mm on a steep gradient I would be straight over the bars in a flash. And they say ride the fork!
I have 150mm on my bike and it bloody terrifies me, hence why it is always wound down to 120mm.

ive just bought for my boy a used Dialled Bikes Alpine frame, from flatoutcycles.co.uk who deserve a plug for the excellent service and price, and bearing in mind i am an old from the 80s stuck in my ways wheels firmly on the ground cleat wearing full suss xc rider it is lovely. i'm almost tempted to look for a larger one myself to play with at trail centres.

I love long travel hardtails. Had a PACE RC325.5,Cove Stiffee, Ragley mmmmmbop, and currently running a BFE.
Have to say the Cove was the nicest but sadly Cove appear to have disappeared from the bike scene. 😐

The pinnacle iroko is such an underrated bike. Might be aluminium but its very forgiving, not at all harsh and geometry is superb. I think they are brilliant.

Andykirk, you just stiffen the forks up with minimal sag (i only have around 10-15% sag once sat on it)....then the 150mm fork only uses full travel on the hardest of hits, in fact last time at BPW I didn't get full travel at all, there was about 10mm of travel left in the fork....i think the idea as much as anything is to raise the front and slacken the head angle....some of the newer breed FS and HTs are going about this with short forks and geometry changes instead but I like the margin for error that the longer fork gives me, it allows me to roll stuff that I'd maybe have to jump/drop with a shorter travel bike.
I had a slack HT Kona that only took a 100-120mm fork and it felt out of its depth on properly rugged trails, just personal taste I suppose....you do have to get the seat down and hang off the back on steep stuff but I like that and it's how I ride my FS too, better riders would probably criticise my technique but it works for me, I don't like riding the front/fork on steep terrain, I move back and let the setup/frame/geo handle it for me!

For the long fork heroes....... how on earth do you not go over the bars?

Set the forks up properly.

Hmmmm. Maybe I should have a play. With my forks I mean. I did follow the instructions on the Fox website.... is this where I am going wrong I wonder.

Yes, the manufacturers all seem to recommend 20-30% sag, which in my opinion is too soft and defeats the point...if you're using full travel on a normal ride it's too soft IMO, some people love it and enjoy the comfort but it doesn't leave anything in reserve for big hits and properly rough terrain...interestingly some world class DH riders revealed this year that they don't run any sag in their suspension, if I recall correctly one of them said he wants the full 200mm of travel and didn't see the point in running any sag at all!

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On One 456C, it's been a hoot since I got it, never riden it with a fork longer than 120mm but it's what it was made for,I bought a 26" Scott Spark and love it but always missed the hardtail so I recently rejuvenated the 456C with a new paint job and 27.5" wheels, waiting for longer air shaft to lengthen the Revelations out to 140mm. it's riding really well now. could probably use a dropper post as the BB is a bit high in certain circumstances, especially after coming off a sagged full susser.

My current thoughts for switching to a hardtail again are based around the Cotic BFe, Production Privee Shan, and Commencal Meta (the steel one). Been told that although the Nukeproof Scout is good, it's not as fun as those three listed. A Stanton would be nice, but a bit harder to justify the extra costs when there's so much choice. (My build will end up based around a 150mm fork and 650b wheels.)

10/10 thread. So far leaning towards an Oka, haven't yet heard a compelling argument for a Soul instead. But the Soul is certainly a looker

I'll just leave this here...

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My new Kona Honzo AL is great fun!

How heavy are the Honzo AL's?

There was a used Evil Sovereign in the for sale recently for £140 or something, those bikes are chuffing amazing, adjustable chainstay length too, steel.

I get a feeling the OP will never be happy though 😛

I run 25% sag with my 160 pikes on the hornet, never had an issue with the change in head angle on landings.

Genesis Tarn?
Looks like a PP but shorter travel.

Actually, think it might struggle with 26"!

Run 160 lyriks at 25% on my Slackline 631 with no issues at all, helped by it being a very supportive fork. The Slackline is awesome at 160, so much so I don't bother winding it down to 130. My previous 26 Bfe was compromised at anything over 130. Would be interesting to try a lighter solo air fork at 140 though.

Not sue if its marketing, but get the impression the latest Slackline is a little less hardcore than mine and is billed as the Stanton trail bike with more of a gap to the switchback - it runs only up to 140 I believe. As noted above, the 853 appears to have a bit more of the old spring than the 631, but these things are relative. All stantons have plenty of zip and turn on a six pence. I'd still probably upgrade if I didn't have to buy new forks and wheels too.

For the long fork heroes....... how on earth do you not go over the bars?

Do you have a low speed compression adjuster? Can you add tokens? Failing that, what's the spring - air or coil?

It sounds like you have a compression issue if you're blowing through travel that quickly. The fork should be supporting your weight and using travel progressively, not blowing through it purely because you're pointing down.

Yes, the manufacturers all seem to recommend 20-30% sag, which in my opinion is too soft and defeats the point...

I'd argue that several fork manufacturers with R&D departments are better qualified to advise on how much sag to run. It is up to you and it could also be argued that the rockier the area the less sag you should run, but that sag also works by dropping the wheel into dips and then cushioning the rider 'fall' - it does have a purpose.

Also hardtails are often designed around with 20-30% fork sag - only running 10% obviously alters the geometry. Whether this is perceptible is an arguable point, but it is something to bear in mind.

For the long fork heroes....... how on earth do you not go over the bars?

I have a 26" wheeled On One 456 Evo2 with 140mm Revs. It is regular gas pipe and I love riding it on technical singletrack at Wharncliffe and indeed had a blast on an uplift weekend taking in Flyup FOD, Cwmdown and BPW. It goes uphill fine.

To me it seems at least as nice to ride as the 2010 Reynolds 653 Orange P7 (RRP £600) it replaced due to a crack around the chainstay.

It has a normal headtube but a 30.9 seat tube so can take a variety of droppers.

I paid £150 for mine in a decent colour in one of the rare sales they have!

I did have to phone and remind them to send it though!

andykirk - Member
For the long fork heroes....... how on earth do you not go over the bars?

Because at 25% sag, there's less than an inch of difference between a 150mm fork and a 120mm, and that really isnt going to be the difference between going over the bars or not?

Obviously if you have a horrible, divey, uncontrolled fork, 150mm is a bit worse, but any half decent fork properly set up won't be.

The Honzo AL is 13.6 kg according to Kona. It is built strong.
Its my first 29er. The bike just pops, and so far is great on flowy trails, loving small jumps and berms.

Well I bought an Oka. So, nyer

I'm sure you won't be disappointed 😀

Nice looking bike that Oka. Good call.

Nice on the oka. Love my shan. And it runs 160mm forks. Problem always is you forget you are on a hardtail and hammer through loads of stuff forgetting to unweight the back end.... averaging 1 flat per ride at the moment (running tubeless too!)

Ooh, what colour Oka did you get?