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If this is where I think it is, there was a near fatal accident at the same place just after it opened. A female from the BOB club, crashed with fractured bones, punctured lung etc, she was lucky to survive.
Same place, Natrix. The trail was heavily modified after that crash in 2013 and they'll probably need to look at it again. I saw the lady concerned earlier this week and she's doing great ~ back out and riding again; maybe just a little slower 😉
As Pook said: I'm more cautious on my own, more so somewhere remote. If something bad happens, well I was out in the fresh air having fun in a pleasant location.
Teamhurtmore +1
I ride solo for sanity to get away from the day job.
Sometimes I'll stop mid-forest and listen/pause and think.
The benefits outweigh the risks. I also relax more so can ride quicker/smoother which is better than what others might think/trying to keep ahead etc. Eff that.
Condolences to the family 🙁 Never good to hear about these things.
If something bad happens, well I was out in the fresh air having fun in a pleasant location.
+1 on that sentiment.
One or two pieces of trail I ride have high consequences. Eg if I was to have brake failure there's no run out and it would be a long fall. My sister knows one of them and really worries about me when I'm on that route. But then it's part of the appeal.
Yes very sad. RIP brother! Only thing I can say is that if I was to go I could only wish it was doing something I love.
I came across the police lines and the female cop filled me in on the accident. Not nice thing to break up your ride. I have read allot of the posts about solo riding etc and to be honest I dont think it would have made any difference with this chap if he was with a group. Also being the UK there are allot of riders so solo at swinley isn't in my view risky. I come from Aus and have lived in NZ and some of those rides I would very much recommend not riding solo as it can be hours before you see another rider allot of the time.
Swinley compared to what I use to ride in NZ really is super easy. Where it happened is not difficult for the average rider its just a matter of taking it at speed that you are in control. That being said sometimes freak things happen ... who knows it could have been a mech failure. All sports are dangerous and its a risk we take.
I ride alone most of the time, and was riding alone when I had my biggest crash which put me in hospital for a couple of nights - not that quiet a trail and I would have been found, but maybe not for a while - as it was I was walking wounded and staggered to the nearest house which wasn't far away. I also go up mountains by myself, most recently I was at the top at 8pm, having done some hands on rock bits on the way up and down - as always when I do that sort of thing I was carrying enough to survive a night, but no use if I was unconscious. Life is for living though, would be a lot poorer for not doing these things and for me the risks are well worth it.
[quote=scott_mcavennie2 ]Disclaimer - do not [b]take your phone with you when you[/b] use this app if you are planning to cheat on your partner!
Fixed 😉
Really sad news. RIP, thoughts to the lads family and freinds.
Cheers for the advice on the app. I've told the mrs to download it. I'm out on my own at Lee Quarry tomorrow morning and I'm certain this will be in the back of my mind.
Re cheating- she'll question why Im always sat in a coffee shop or TKMaxx 😀
On recent solo night rides I always say where and when to expect a checkin call
Biggest crash I ever had was at Swinley, it can be deceptively dangerous in sections, although we obviously need to wait to see what the cause of death was, RIP.
Very sad to read this, I ride solo quiet often - given the choice of a solo ride or no ride its me and my iPod every time.
Most of the time I ride 8/10ths of my usual comfortable pace, but I've also been known to break some Strava PBs on a solo.
I've just been debating the pros and cons of it with my wife, although I didn't catch the date on the link so we were talking about heart attacks - I decided the pros outweighed the cons, riding makes it less likely for me to have a heart attack in later life, partly because of the general fitness and partly because it's how I deal with stress in my life - I'm not sure if what happened to this poor chap with change my mind - I went down hard a couple of years ago, out of mobile range but thankfully riding with a mate - I can't be sure, but I think it took 25 mins for him to get to the ranger station, another 30 or so for them to get back to me and 30 more for the paramedics to reach us, too much tree cover for a heli.
Even though I was at Afan, on a warm sunny weekend day, it was only when I had been patched up and getting into the Ambo when the next set of riders came along - close to 2 hours after I crashed I'd guess.
Certainly made me think.
Message from his wife on FB,
I just wanted to tell you a bit about Mark he did 22 years in the army being sent to Iraq and other god awful places he was a proud man an amazing husband and father we have been together 27 years I have truly lost my soul mate but your words have helped me to know he was not alone and everything that could be done was done xx"
Anna Kingston.
🙁 Incredibly sad.
Survives 22 years in the Mob and a bloody tree gets him. Life really does troll us sometimes. 🙁
Horrendous to hear and read of this, RIP our biking brother.
I've been riding Swinley for over 15 years now and more recently, usually, solo and this is quite a sobering call. Thanks for the app suggestions, will be looking at those.
And when I am there this week I will halt and take a few minutes silence and reflection for our brother on Red 25. Respect and hugs to all.
He sounds very much a better man than I was or can be. For **** sake. 🙁
Yep.
I'll be down there before long & will take a time out in deference to this man.
There but for the grace of God as it were.
RIP..
Tragic 🙁
RIP buddy.
Thoughts with family and loved ones.
The Rider who died Saturday 25th July 2015 was Mark Kingston. I have been in contact with Marks wife Anna today who has asked me to fill you all in. Below is a section of a message I received today from Anna I can't think of anything else to say.
"I just wanted to tell you a bit about Mark he did 22 years in the army being sent to Iraq and other god awful places he was a proud man an amazing husband and father we have been together 27 years I have truly lost my soul mate but your words have helped me to know he was not alone and everything that could be done was done xx"
Anna Kingston.
I saw the lady concerned earlier this week and she's doing great ~ back out and riding again
Thanks for the update Reluctant
Reluctant & Natrix - also had a good chat with the lady you mention last week, and brilliant to see her out riding again and enjoying it so much again!
Terrible news though for Mark Kingston. 🙁
Is it just me who rides a little bit more within myself when I'm out on my own?
Nope
Have seen too much carnage around Cannock with people wrapped around trees bust up pretty bad and paramedics in attendance
Stopped on Saturday to let a couple of lads through and like the motorway when you stop you realise how fast people are going. And yet we're all just bags of blood and jelly and those fricken trees don't move
Not the time for speculation but hopefully there'll be some form of analysis to identify if there's a requirement for any changes to either trail design or rider behaviour? I'm thinking of something similar to what happens in the climbing world (informally in this country more formally in the US) to work out whether it was a single "unlucky" freak incident or something that we can all learn from.
On the one hand I fundamentally disagree, the trail is what it is, if there was a 3ft drop, you could do yourself some serious harm, but that doesn't mean all drop off should be at jogging pace and <8". It's always rider error, the trail is what it is.
OTOH that section and a lot of others on the Red have some fairly widely spaced decent sized rollers which give you a choice, either ride the trail at a speed where wheels remain on the ground or you ride each one like a small tabletop (this is how 99% probably ride them) or ride it at the speed allowed by all the other features (i.e. corners) and they become quite large jumps between them.
Unfortunately this has lead to a number of people nose diving horribly into the next roller. This may or may not have happened this time, but on red25 it would seem the obvious thing to crash on.
My personal opinion is that the grading system is a bit off at Swinley. There's a few Blue sections which definitely feel more like Red, and the spacing of the rollers on a lot of Red means the penalty for above average speed is coming up short on what could be described as the 'pro line'* landing, not a flat landing which you'd expect.
*99.5 percentile.
Stopped on Saturday to let a couple of lads through and like the motorway when you stop you realise how fast people are going.
Just checked my Strava for that section at Swinley and it's getting towards 30mph top speed. I ride there mostly alone, certainly going to make me think a little more.
Massive respect to the people that stopped and helped and hope they are doing OK themselves, there's a guy on the Swinley FB thread who was pretty early to the scene and has done an amazing job of liaising with the poor guy's family and the rest of the Swinley FB group. Given the overwhelming number of responses on the FB thread, just goes to show the strength of the community.
From what was reported here I don't see that riding solo actually increased his risk at all.
From what I've read here, there isn't enough information for me to be that confident.
Sure, he may have suffered catastrophic and unsurvivable injuries in which case it's so. But if he knocked himself out, landed with a constricted airway and went into cardiac arrest in the couple of minutes between the crash and being found, then being on his own might have been the difference between survival and not.
FWIW most of my riding is solo, and I do the telling my partner where I'm going and gps tracking thing. I also ride in a less gung ho fashion (it's all relative, I'm a slow mincer in a group anyway) - I'm aware that if I knock myself out and land wrong (constricted airway) my wife raising the alert when my gps hasn't moved for a bit is only likely to result in a warmer corpse being found.
BTW, and I've thought long and hard about whether or not to add this bit and please, please, please don't make me regret this by derailing a thread: if you're knocked out and lying on the floor, there is more chance of you airway not being clear in a bike helmet than without one. [b]This is not a suggestion that helmets shouldn't be worn[/b], just something else to think about when your mate stacks it spectacularly and isn't moving afterwards - with the horrible quandary of "do I take his helmet off, what about spinal injuries?" which may need to be resolved rather quickly*
*If they're not breathing, you may well need the helmet off, risk mitigated** by supporting / immobilising the head as much as possible. If you're going to spend five minutes making that decision, you might as well not bother...
**The best way to do this is to have professional "first on scene" first aid training.
Two weeks ago I torn my ligaments/rotator cuff with one single arm movement with weights which has put me off the bike for weeks. Previous to this my last injury was when I flipped off my mountain bike at an angle into rocks (last bend of the beast where it drops)- I tried jumping it, got the front wheel washed out on preload and came off high-side (or something).
Apart from a friction burn on my forearm I got up and rode on.
A bloke I know put his foot wrong whilst walking down the stairs of his house and badly broke it- it almost needed fusing.
I don't buy that mountain biking is anymore dangerous than going to the shops. Indeed I think road cycling is hairy/very scary compared.
Most of the time I tend to ride well within my capabilities partly as I know that accidents tend to happen when you are starting to get tired, are tired from a night on the pop, dehydrated etc so I tend to ease up when riding Sat and Sun am's.
I'd like more info on what happened at Swinley. Such horrible and regrettable deaths shouldn't put anyone off. There could be other mitigating circumstances that could help us understand.
I don't buy that mountain biking is anymore dangerous than going to the shops.
As much as I applaud the attitude that we shouldn't stop doing stuff like riding bikes, that's a daft thing to say! Of course riding a bike fast off road is more dangerous than going to the shops (unless the shops in question are in Mosside!). Of my friends one is now a quadriplegic, one is currently lying in a french hospital with a broken back and another has a permanent facial disfigurement - none of them did this to themselves in Sainsburys!
If I mixed with climbers I'm sure I would have a different set of friends with different stories and again I think it's important that people do stuff like riding bikes off road but we need to acknowledge it has a risk and take that into account (a bit more than we do when we walk into WH Smiths).
I should have said mountain biking on normal UK trails......not the Alps 😀
Unless you want to throw yourself around Carrefour 😀
I should have said mountain biking on normal UK trails......not the Alps
Of the 3 I mentioned, two were indeed in the Uk - one on that notoriously dangerous south downs way!
South Downs way? 😯
South Downs way
Perhaps mountain biking is more dangerous than you think
Exactly.
RIP Mark Kingston.
Next time i ride swinley, I will stop and remember.
Our thursday night ride will think, discuss and raise a glass.
Thoughts with your family and friends.
Very sad news, my thoughts to family and friends 🙁
I think now after reading this I best put something in place for the boss to track me, as I think nothing of 5-8 hours in the peaks on my own, that said I don't go that silly when im alone for this reason
thisisnotaspoon - Member
Not the time for speculation but hopefully there'll be some form of analysis to identify if there's a requirement for any changes to either trail design or rider behaviour? I'm thinking of something similar to what happens in the climbing world (informally in this country more formally in the US) to work out whether it was a single "unlucky" freak incident or something that we can all learn from.
On the one hand I fundamentally disagree, the trail is what it is, if there was a 3ft drop, you could do yourself some serious harm, but that doesn't mean all drop off should be at jogging pace and <8". It's always rider error, the trail is what it is.
I'm not trying to start an argument in any way, this thread certainly isn't the place for it and it appears from the 2nd (unquoted) part of your post we're in agreement. I thought a few words to clarify my thoughts may be worthwhile.
If we're discussing a natural trail or an obvious built feature (such as the drop in your example) then I completely agree - the trail shouldn't be modified to to be suitable for all; however, if you have a situation where a combination of features or one poorly designed feature, especially on a blue trail ,can cause accidents (perhaps analogous to a badly bolted sport climbing route) by catching inexperienced / unlucky riders out then I'd suggest some form of analysis and perhaps re-design is necessary.
To put it another way, where a trail is purpose built the features should be obvious and probably look harder than they actually are - i.e. it should't look easy but then have a nasty wheel size hole just around the blind corner or have a landing with a line that ends in a tree etc...
I'm not saying that this is the case at Swinley but that an accident like this should prompt some informed discussion.
Trail centres should be designed so that there's a challenge, but you aren't going to die if you roll into it unexpectedly. Or it should be plainly visible what you're getting yourself into - like the sadly departed planks at Cwmcarn.
Very sad all this... I've ridden Swinley for years - and actually quite like it over many of the other places I ride in the UK because I feel a lot safer riding there alone than anywhere else. I guess this sort of thing has the potential to happen anywhere though..
I am at a complete loss to figure out where 'Red 25' is though. I can't imagine I've never ridden it, but don't recognise the you tube videos.
Can anyone give a few pointers as to where this section of trail is?
Red 25 is the second (or third if the birds aren't ground nesting) piece of singletrack trail you come to after the Labyrinth (although the first is pretty flat and featureless). It has the long climb followed by a fast flowy section with many small whoops/jumps.
It's one of my favourites there and everything can be rolled, however it can also be hit very fast, I've had a couple of dodgy landings and the trees run fairly close in places.
RIP Mark, such a sad thing to happen.
Okay gedit now. There are a lot of very close trees right through there. Hmmmm...
I am at a complete loss to figure out where 'Red 25' is though. I can't imagine I've never ridden it, but don't recognise the you tube videos
It's now called F1, it's a switchbacked climb a few sections after the labrynth followed by a fast but very wide decent with a few berms, tabletops and aforementioned rollers.
Trail centres should be designed so that there's a challenge, but you aren't going to die if you roll into it unexpectedly. Or it should be plainly visible what you're getting yourself into
Not sure what Swinley is like but theres a section in Phillips Park nearish me in Manchester- a number of times I've said one section is dangerous- start of roller coaster, swoopy trail but after one rise the start of the dip is off camber with trees to your right- very very easy for someone to unexpectedly get that bit wrong- good or new rider (as its open to all 24hours a day).
Still find it hard getting my head around someone dying at Swinley from crashing, but I've seen a few offs there and I guess it takes a series of very unlikely factors all combining at once to turn a normal scrape-your-arm crash into something fatal.
Re on the subject of riding alone, would it have saved this poor man if he had been with fellow riders? I can't imagine it would have been long until another rider came by.
This is the top of the run, just after the climb. Trail is pretty much this surface and width all the way down, should give an idea of the speed you can get.
Also know as Kevlar on Strava.
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The but that makes me nervous is the section from the reservoir towards deerstalker. Obviously fine if taken steadily but I am always conscious of not pushing it too hard on that bit and screwing up and hitting a tree. Plus there is one downhill bend in the blue about half way round that flows into a RH berm than has nearly caught me out by going too fast.
I v rarely ride trail centres so the first lap makes me nervous every re traction on the surface. I have yet to feel confident on Swinley and really let go. This makes me even more cautious.