[Closed] Track ends vs sliding dropouts vs EBBs

Sliding dropouts are my preferred if they include the disk mounts. Other than that, track ends with a chain tug are ok, and only a tiny bit more faff. Not ridden an ebb, but I'm a bit of a princess when it comes to the perfect saddle to bb position so it might not suit me.

I like my sliding dropouts.

Lots of stories of squeaking eccentric BBS, and they are heavier.

Watch for track ends with disc mounts, sometimes you have to remove the brake to get the wheel out.

Are you using chain tugs? Just spotted you said tensioners, not tugs.

Yep, tried a few different chain tugs, the wheel still creeps forward..

These swinging dropouts look best IMO. Sliders look like they're still in the prototype stages i.e. half finished.

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Yep, tried a few different chain tugs, the wheel still creeps forward..

Have you tried the surly one? Not cheap and may not stop creep, but as it's tool less to tighten it's a lot less hassle.

Track end and chain tug. Never had a problem.

I've tried loads of different ones probably prefer swinging ones like salsa alternator but currently running two ebb bikes with zero hassle

I like swingy or slidey (as said above, as long as the mount is integrated)

I've not used an EBB but not sure I really like the way the ones I've seen seem to be executed - a nicely integrated tensioning bolt or two to control the rotation and I'd be more impressed

(edit: THen again, I also think the BB's a filthy part of the bike and so more prone to seizing/corrosion etc than the rear dropout)

track ends and bolt up hub here, works a treat. Didn't get on with tugs found them awkward when removing the wheel.

Have you tried the surly one? Not cheap and may not stop creep, but as it's tool less to tighten it's a lot less hassle.

The one with the bottle opener? Yep 🙂

EBB for me, not had an issue with squeak or creak from my Singular.
Never got on with sliding dropouts.

Cheers, Steve

currently running two ebb bikes with zero hassle

Are they dedicated EBB frames like singular or aftermarket ones like the Philcentric EBB?

I've run a SS with EBB - the standard supplied Cannondale EBB unit was utter crap. I replaced it with a Bushnell which was great but obviously comes at a financial cost.

Any EBB that uses a split BB shell or grubscrews to lock the EBB are a bodge IMHO

Shermer they are dedicated ebb frames I have also only recently sold a bike I ran with a problem solvers adjustable bb and a niner ebb where the actual bb adjusts within the bb. Both good too.

I've had 5 bikes with Ebb's and the only crap one was on a Gary Fisher Rig which used a wedge to tighten it up and no matter how much grease was on it it would still seize.
The 2 Singular's were both no problem at all and I've still got a split shell on one bike which I overtightened and broke the tab off (it was easily brazed back on) and one on the Stooge which has also been no problem.
Had track ends but much prefer Ebb's, much less fat putting the rear wheel in and out.

Has anybody had much luck with the Onza PF30 Eccentric Press Fit Bottom Bracket?

Always found the bushnell style expanding ebb constantly seemed to ingest mud in winter and needed a lot of stripping / cleaning every time the chain needed re-tensioning. Mrs once had one come loose and slide sideways during a ride. Took her a few minutes to work out what was wrong, by which time chainring had worn a big groove in the chainstay....

Swinging dropouts probably the tidiest. I personally prefer bomb proof simplicity of some kind of horizontal dropout with a bolt in or nutted hub (no need for chain tugs). Have run some variation on that for the last 20 years (using hubs from hope, spot, dmr and Phil wood. Plus std shimano rebuilt around nutted axle)

Any EBB that uses a split BB shell or grubscrews to lock the EBB are a bodge IMHO

Grubscrews, yes - the problem with them is the screw makes an indent in the EBB, then when you try to adjust it a bit it moves back into that indent. But pinchbolts are a decent way to do it - very secure, infinitely adjustable, cheap and simple.

The expanding type of EBB is neat, but they're fussier about being greased and treated nicely. I've had one in my Tinbred for years without problems though.

My personal feeling when building frames is it's an aesthetic decision, not an engineering one.

Used the Singular/Phil Wood EBB for years on several bikes and it's been flawless

There is no 'best' option.They all have pluses and minuses.Tried all the usual ones so far.I like the alternators (swingy) on my Salsa but will go for a Bushnell Ebb on the inevitable custom frame.

Used the Singular/Phil Wood EBB for years on several bikes and it's been flawless

Which one is that? I thought that Singular bikes came with their own EBB?

EBBs any day. I have had various versions over the years and never had a problem.

I like the clean back end that results too. 🙂

Has anybody had much luck with the Onza PF30 Eccentric Press Fit Bottom Bracket?

I believe the Onza is the same as a Problem Solvers one but with cheaper bearings. I'd recommend the Niner PF30 BB as this has a mechanism of keeping both cups in phase. Without this I think you're more likely to suffer from premature bearing wear/failure.

I'm a big fan of EBBs, especially the PF30 type where the clamping force is on the face of the shell, not the ID. Other than that, the Bushnell would be my next preferred.

I'be built hundreds of frames with rocker/slider dropouts without a problem but I prefer the PF30 EBB (mostly for versatility as well as aesthetics reasons). I hate horizontal dropouts if also using disk brakes.

Track ends with rear facing bolts for tension keep my hope hub in place with a standard quick release. I like the swinging dropout option too. My kona unit had sliding dropouts which were also fine.

Never felt the need for chain tugs, and I have a lot of track and fixed wheel bikes.

EBB here, though I've not tried a swinging dropout - think they look an interesting (and tidy) solution.

Track ends are a pain with disc brakes and changing a rear wheel unnecessarily fiddly. The one on my Inbred drove me up the wall.

Sliding dropouts never seem to sit right and are also a bit of a faff.

I've a Bushnell-type EBB on my HT race bike - bit weighty, but solid and doesn't need that much looking after, I tend to just remove it, wipe and re-grease when tensioning. I like that you have to smash half of it out with a hammer 😀

I've a BEER components one for BB30 on my CX race bike - nice and lightweight and easy to adjust without removing cranks or anything. Two seasons in (only removed/stripped/cleaned once in that time) and no issues.

Any EBB that uses a split BB shell or grubscrews to lock the EBB are a bodge IMHO

Once upon a time they were the only option.
Never had a problem with EBBs, either bodge or expanding. A bit of copper grease stops the squeaks.
Sliding dropouts and track ends though... Work of the devil. takes ages to get the wheel straight, chain tensioned etc

Which one is that? I thought that Singular bikes came with their own EBB?

Now you've sown seeds of doubt in my mind but I'm pretty sure that my Peregrine and Swift have a Phil Wood, but the Puffin has a similar design in a wider shell.

Skankin_giant - Member
EBB for me, not had an issue with squeak or creak from my Singular.

Same here, Singular use Phil Wood inserts, or at least that what mine is.

Ebb for me.

Singular use Phil Wood inserts, or at least that what mine is.

ssboggy - Member
Singular use Phil Wood inserts, or at least that what mine is.

The older Singular's had Phil Wood inserts but I'm pretty sure they use their own (very similar) insert now. I've had both and they have both been very good.

Thats certainly my experience. My first Swift had a Phil Woods EBB but my Rooster and Puffin have Singular branded ones. I can find no discernible differences.

Ironically my Rooster and Puffin are both geared. I've played with the EBB re pedal clearance and BB height but not SS.

For SS I favour the track end, a tug (fnar, fnar) and preferably a bolt through/up hub. I run this on my Inbred and its never budged.

Sliding/rocker dropouts are my second favourite as you can adjust chain tension (SS) and CS length (SS and geared).

Paragon are fairly light weight as are the Black cat(?) rocking ones but the ones on my Pipedream (sam as Kona) weigh an absolute ton.

Never had an EBB, would like to try one

Swinging dropouts on my El Marriachi, seem fine to me

Don't like the idea of track ends, if you have mudguards it's a pain and also you then need to worry about retensioning the chain if you're taking the wheel out

Had EBBs on 3 Singulars over 1 to 5 years. All been SS and geared. Never a squeak or a slip from any of them. Used them to mess around with BB height/seat tube angle too. They might keep your BB going a little longer, as it's in a sealed shell rather than running in seat tube mank.

Also had a Philcentric for a few years. Bought it second hand off here, whacked it it, it's been great. Not a whisper. Needs a half link on my bike/gear. And it tightens the chain at 20(26?) distinct points rather than continuously, so you might not be able to get the chain tension just perfect.

so you might not be able to get the chain tension just perfect.

Perfect chain tension is overrated. Most people run them far too tight, judging by pics on here. More important is [i]perfect[/i] chainline.

EBBs are the work of the Devil. Track ends.......job done

EBBs are the work of the Devil. Track ends.......job done

EBB and a Gates Drive for me.

used EBB and sliding ends perfectly happily, the key to sliding track ends is a bolt up hub.

Ever so slight hijack here (curiosity got the better of me), but seeing as we're discussing SS, why not vertical dropouts and an old rear mech/ pukka chain tensioner?

[quote=greatbeardedone ]Ever so slight hijack here (curiosity got the better of me), but seeing as we're discussing SS, why not vertical dropouts and an old rear mech/ pukka chain tensioner?

Because it looks rubbish. The whole point of SS is that it looks neat and tidy! I've never had any issues with a proper internal cam QR (think shimano) with any of the track end frames I've had, maybe I just don't put out enough watts!

Similar experiences for me. Had 4 EBBs so far on Singulars and Jones and all been hassle-free, no creaks ever.
Sliding drop-outs on the Ritchey just seem a clumsy approach, probably my technique but I find them a pain trying to get the right chain tension.

Forward-facing drop outs work pretty well for me if the skewers are tightly clamped or bolted.

I've not had any problems with the EBB on my Sanderson Soloist. Easy to adjust if you've got a decent pin spanner (and the Sanderson tool), and it keeps the rear end looking really tidy.

I've not had any problems with the EBB on my Sanderson Soloist

Don't think they make it any more unfortunately..

Perfect chain tension is overrated.

Agreed! I've had a slagging for a droopy chain. stays on, though, does everything I want it to and nothing I don't.

2 x EBB, 2 x Salsa Alternator swinging drop outs & 2 x Track ends frames in use and archived (for now 😉 ).

I dont have an issue with any of them - and really could not say which I prefer. Its not the main deciding factor when choosing a frame that can be singlespeeded, other factors are more important.

The Alternators and trackends are good though when running different wheel sizes eg 29plus and Fat on my fat bike.

Thanks for the reply, 'everyone'

That question had been dancing in my head for a good few years!

With any system that adjusts at the rear end, there's the potential to misalign the rear end.

And lose rigidity / or add weight?

It might misalign the rear end, but i'm sure getting it right 'by eye' is just fine. Your bike doesn't go crabbing off into the bushes if it's not quite right.