[Closed] Thoughts on nicolai? 160mm gravity enduro bikes?

sounds like a bit of an uber build - I thoroughly approve.

So, from experience, the NP mega climbs OK (very little bob, easy to keep the front down) and descends very well, and I guess you could spec it to the roof.

but it ain't that fancy. More a dirty parts bin kinda bike.

Nicolai do look truly gopping (to me), but by all accounts are something else.

WOuld you entertain the idea of a all mountain 29er? Blank slate for me would be an Intense T29 with modded talas 180mm forks.

Kev

Own a Nicolai AM. Tha replaced a Nicolai FR I also own a CC

Superb bikes.

I like the way they look (many don't) but they are just superb to ride. When I first bought the FR I test rode many alternatives but Nicolai was the best IMO.

The AM descends brillaintly and though harder work on the climbs it will get you up most stuff no problem (Mine is built on the heavy side - ie focussed on the downs)

Are they signifciantly better than other bikes? Of course not. Totally customizable, not that common and a 5 year transferrable warranty that also covers racing speaks volumes.

My next bike will be a Nicolai 🙂

Dunno why anyone would spend 1700+ on a Nicolai (unless you were going for their custom geometry option) when you can get just as capable a bike in the form of the Nukeproof Mega for 650.

bwaarp

Dunno why anyone would spend 1700+ on a Nicolai (unless you were going for their custom geometry option) when you can get just as capable a bike in the form of the Nukeproof Mega for 650.

How many reasons would you like? First, and most obviously there is the potential to fully customise the geometry and colour scheme, which for the discerning rider who can afford it, is massive.

Second, it's a horst link (from one of the guys who originally developed it for mtb application) as opposed to a linkage driven single pivot. Lets avoid the normal, massive generalizations people get into and just say that they feel different and some people prefer one or t'other.

Thirdly, they are comparatively rare, unique, special, different.

Fourth, they are made by german craftsmen who agonise over precision and quality control on every single frame. Believe it or not this translates to the ride quality - it is tangible.

Fifth, as mentioned above, the five year, transferable warranty (which includes racing). Almost unrivaled in the bike industry and massively indicative of the makers confidence in their product. It might also be important to someone intent on putting the bike through some serious use.

Sixth, most of their designs are highly adaptable (never mind the customisation) in terms of travel and geometry - you can have several different iterations of one bike.

Seventh, if you break a part or want some aspect of your bike modified or updated you can have it done.

....I'm sure there are more reasons, many more reasons, but this is a bike we're talking about here, so we don't need reasons. If you're still in doubt you can always pick up the phone and ask the guy who runs the company.

Cheers.

Nukeproof mega wouldn't come into my list I'm afraid.
Call me a snob or anything else but I don't see it as a step up from a five in any way shape or form.

I really like the look of nicolai frames, I like the built for purpose looks, but hey looks aren't everything.

Not sure I know enough to go custom geometry although I'm sure they could help.
Would be thinking of bos deville fork and matching coil rear.

And nope, I'm not a fan of 29ers.

They do ride differently to a single pivot or VPP and I preferr that. Is a very neutral feeling bike. It gets out of the way and let's you focus on what the ground is doing and has very little discernible character. Its very transparent in that respect.

I've owned my AM for three years and am about to take delivery of a fully custom One. I deliberately went stock first so that i would know what to ask for when i went fully custom.

They are very capable down hill especially when the ground is rough. I was easily able to keep the wheel of a prominent industry figure riding a CCDB equipped Orange 224 in Verbier last year, which was a real rush. In some places the guy on the DH bike was holding me up.

Other than that I would second everything that Muddyfunster said above. They offer something very different to all other manufacturers (I've talked to the designer and fabricator of my new bike for example) and something better than a lot of other bikes.

Oh and my three year old large (with custom seat tube) will soon be for sale.

Have bos front and rear on mine as well. Where are you? Maybe we can organise a test ride.

Is it my beer goggles? This is an ugly bike?

[img] [/img]

Surely not?

Oh really? I'm in the midlands, where abouts are you? Any pics?

HAHAHAH

Really four bar suspension rides that much different? Do they ****. My SX trail was the worst bike I've ever owned.

The Leverage ratio is very very similar to the Megas. You are maybe going to get a little less brake jack. Braking is for pussies anyway.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Nicolai
Nicolais
The custom geo costs another 500, it's only useful if you know what you are looking for. You might bollocks the handling up if you don't know what you are looking for.

As for the Orange Five the geo is a considerable step up.

And as for being handmade, I'd buy Taiwanese over hand made in Germany any day.

Keep kidding yourselves that you are getting something that is "that much better" for three times the cost.

Custom paint job? Oooooh wow, I could get a really really nice custom paint job from a good local garage of mine for 70 quid.

Go away bwarp you're being an arse.

Matt I'm in the SE but ride in the peak a bit. Can't link a photo as I can't grab the picture location on the iPad but look [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/geetee1972/6864341058/sizes/l/in/photostream/ ]Here[/url]

Is there a source for that style of decal set above special order ? Quite fancy something like that on my CC
Cheers

I think the customer had nicolai make them at a huge cost buti could be wrong. The customer is in Singapore and the shop orders a lot of custom specials. You can see them on Facebook. Search for Attitude Bikes.

Thanks for your thoughts on the nicolai bwarp.

Gee, that looks a great build!

Would definately be up for a go at some point even if it means me coming down to the SE! Looks a perfect spec.

What sort of riding do you do with it? Are you just swapping frames by the way?

I think bwarp is probably right, I don't think I'd go custom geometry, although only being
5ft 10 I'd probably like to talk to them about getting something with a fairly low standover, an 18" five is perfect for general cycling but feels a bit big reach wise and stand over. (I bought an 18 before they brought out the 17")

Oh and attitude bikes is a very close partner to nicolai iirc, they often get specials / new releases

That blue thing is gopping, and that's from a former Nicolai owner.

In the sort of range you are looking at, there are plenty of decent bikes. I think however there are many bikes just as good, if not better.

However, that being said, if you want something fairly unique & custom, then they have their place 🙂

Spend your money on lots of skills courses. Then you'll be able to descend faster, climb better and not waste money on a new bike.

geetee1972

They do ride differently to a single pivot or VPP and I preferr that. Is a very neutral feeling bike. It gets out of the way and let's you focus on what the ground is doing and has very little discernible character. Its very transparent in that respect.

This is key. A lot of people are turned off by the way horst link bikes feel, citing remote,dull,robotic,controlled etc

Coming from some other designs this can be off putting at first to uninitiated but when pushed hard....really hard, that neutrality is a massive bonus. The last thing you want is any quirk of handling when you are hammering through the rough stuff. A [i]well set up[/i] horst link will quietely soak things up and get on with it without getting in your way, drawing attention to what the bike is doing allowing you to focus on the trail and your riding. Something you only appreciate after many years of riding. IMO.

bwaarp - Member

HAHAHAH

Really four bar suspension rides that much different? Do they ****. My SX trail was the worst bike I've ever owned.

The Leverage ratio is very very similar to the Megas. You are maybe going to get a little less brake jack. Braking is for pussies anyway.
........blah...blah.....bllll

It's like the argument people who can't afford Ferrari's but drive modified subararu's and nissans etc come out with. My mass produced cheaper thing is so much better than something 4 times the price and only pussies drive that because it's so expenseive, blah blah blah. Justify whatever you want to yourself how ever you want. If you could afford better you would buy better.

Thanks geetee

I've ridden it everywhere and do everything on it including local woods down here on Surrey hills, Verbier and the PDS Wales the peak and lakes and DH uplift days like gawton.

It's been down most things and it's been ridden pretty rapidly.

Defo don't go custom geometry for your first bike. A medium would likely fit better than my large. I'm swapping out just the frame shock and headset on mine. You're welcome to try mine and I may be able to blag a medium as well. The guy who designs orange bikes thinks very. Highly of nicolai designs as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it has to be a nicolai, they are just on the list and I really like the ideals/look of them.

I have also never heard the word gopping before :s

And don't worry, skills courses are already underway. I'm just conscious that I will want an upgrade to the five next year.

Mojo HD is one to try first... I didn't like it much at all if I'm honest, not to say it's a bad bike, it's definately not, but I want more of a descending bias from a 160mm bike.

FWIW, Orange Fives descend fast and climb OK. If it's a reasonably recent one anyway. And the Alpine's a really effective 160mm tool as well- in fact the only 160mm bike I've ridden that comes close to my own (which you can't buy any more, and wouldn't be flash enough for you anyway, so I won't recommend it 😉 )

mbarnes - Member

Is it my beer goggles? This is an ugly bike?

Yes, yes it is. To be fair there'll never be a bike with a big air shock (Vivid air is it?) that isn't, they make the prettiest bikes look ridiculous. But that's not the prettiest bike in the first place.

Actually, get a hardtail and learn how to ride properly. It'll do you a world of good.

North wind you think the mojo has morecdh bias than the am or you think the mojo isnt DH biased enough (which is actually Dirt also said about the mojo).

Actually, just get a bmx and learn to ride it properly.

Or a unicycle.

Get a penny farthing and take it down Champery. That'll learn you.

Maybe a cock horse and take it to Banbury cross.

Or a cross cock taken to a horse. In Banbury.

geetee1972 - Member

North wind you think the mojo has morecdh bias than the am or you think the mojo isnt DH biased enough (which is actually Dirt also said about the mojo).

I think it's not DH-biased enough. Not for my taste anyway. But ymmv and I'd definately recommend a test ride if you can, as it might still suit you.

They look great, and as people who own them rate them that is also good.

It would be on my list.

Cheers,
I'll demo a mojo and a spicy anyway.

And regarding the learn to ride, good point. Never thought of getting any skills, just thought I'd buy a really expensive bike and hope I could ride it.

Oh and the five is a 2012 model, so yeah it climbs and descends well and id almost be tempted just to put a CCDB and bos deville 160mm on it but have heard bad things about 160mm on a five

I'm a massive orange homo but if I was to be tempted away I think it would be a nicolai. Saw a fellow up cwmcarn on a cow print nicolai once, riding with a guy on a pimped up orange of some kind, they were absolutely flying.

Never thought of getting any skills, just thought I'd buy a really expensive bike and hope I could ride it.

You cant just "get" skills. They arent something tangible (like a gravity enuro bike) that you can buy in the shops.

You have to spend years honing them on a hardtail or bmx.

mbarnes - Member

but have heard bad things about 160mm on a five

TBH I didn't like it... I reckon the Five has pretty fantastic balance as standard, but the longer fork just seemed to lose that a little. Some folks love it and I can see why but I prefered the composure of the standard one. TBH I don't like the suspension action of the Five much but if you like it, then you already have a great enduro-type bike.

See if you can borrow a longer fork off someone?

Having done a few Gravity Enduros (sadly not this year though)....the range of bikes involved is massive, from 120mm hardtails through to DH rigs being pushed between stages (seriously!).

There doesnt seem to be any such thing as a Gravity Enduro bike, most of the top finishers tend to be on 140-160mm travel bikes but the variation is massive from cheap-ish Giant Reigns and Saracen Ariels (which by the way the Maddison Saracen junior team clean up with)....through to custom built bikes....not everybody goes for a single ring and chain device, Tracey Mosely uses a double chainring set-up as she has publicly stated her preference for having a granny ring to spin along the uphill connecting stages.

What you're trying to create is a good all rounder, some parts of Eastridge have been used in proper DH comps whereas some of the Welsh rounds were by some accounts quite pedally.

One aspect of the custom thing with Nicolai that you might know about from your current experience, if you chose to go that way, is TT length and how you like your bar/saddle/stem. I think that the TT is fairly short for the frame size. That's only my perception because I am an advocate of the current wide bar/short stem philosophy. I ride with a 50mm stem and 760mm bars and a medium frame has the perfect standover but is a little too short in the TT FOR ME, leading me to use a layback post which upset the weight balance a little for climbing. It was fine but not ideal.

They are comparable with almost all other makers, who I also think usually make their TTs too short, Hence when I ordered my Nicolai I specced a longer TT, but shorter ST/Standover.

If you do go Nicolai (And the blue with the GBoxx in the picture is no oil painting) then I suggest contacting Richard at GravitySports for excellent service and prices. I am in the midlands too if you wanted to hook up at some time for a look/ride.

This is my current AC

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8439/7814333866_a0a0f05b24.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8439/7814333866_a0a0f05b24.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pilot/7814333866/ ]P1010994[/url]

This was my AM at an Italian SuperEnduro Pro race, which are bloody tough both up and down!

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7054/6981556920_2c4d56c59d.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7054/6981556920_2c4d56c59d.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pilot/6981556920/ ]IMG_1788[/url]

I think that the TT is fairly short for the frame size.

I'd agree with that. I wouldn't normally ride a large (all relative of course) but the one I am on now was a large with a short seat tube for this reason.

This time round I've specced a custom TT so that it will be exactly between a medium and a large but also with a much lower BB.

chainline - what's with the daft nose down saddle angles?

chainline - what's with the [s]daft[/s] nose down saddle angles?

FIFY

Thanks gee.
can you explain what's not daft about them to me now please?

Perhaps he just prefers it.

Yes, perhaps. I'm just interested in why tho Ian.

Maybe he runs slightly more sag on his rear suspension than the fork so that it's level when in use. If you're riding very steep ups and downs it can make sense as well - you can get further onto the nose for the climbs and the angle's irrelevant when you're descending as you're standing up.

Really four bar suspension rides that much different? Do they ****. My SX trail was the worst bike I've ever owned.

That's a load of balls; just because one Horst link 4-bar rides bad doesn't mean they all do. Pivot point, linkage differences, coil & air shocks - all make big differences. In fact, the whole thing about linkage actuated frames is that the designer/manufacturer can tune the suspension however they want to.

I've had loads of Oranges & a few Nicolai (still have a Blood & a Helius ST); in my opinion they're both good manufacturers with fantastic geometry bikes. The standard geometry on Nicolai's is great - I wouldn't go custom unless you absolutely [i]need[/i] something that doesn't come standard on the frame you choose.

Yes, perhaps. I'm just interested in why tho Ian.

Well it's clear to me that he has an absolutely massive set of marriage tackle that unless he moves the nose down would be excruciatingly painful.

mildred - Member

That's a load of balls; just because one Horst link 4-bar rides bad doesn't mean they all do.

Aye, my SX sucked balls frankly but my Hemlock and my Camber are both FSRs and they ride great (and differently). There's a lot more going on than the number of bars.

Well it's clear to me that he has an absolutely massive set of marriage tackle

That's a load of balls

If you're riding very steep ups and downs it can make sense as well

you can get further onto the nose for the climbs

and the angle's irrelevant when you're descending as you're standing up.

Huge tackle seems the only sensible answer so far

I was after a Nicolai last year, an AC though. After looking at the weight for the price, I decided on a carbon frame instead (Mojo HD).
I'm not saying that might be the right bike for you, but get an idea on heavy you want your build to be...I've been riding with someone this weekend on a lovely AM, Cane Creek shock and Fox Vans. It weighed 37.5lbs and that was with wheels that weren't heavy and trail tyres. My HD is 28lbs with the same tyres and wheels that would only be 100g lighter. Admittedly, mine has air suspension and a 32mm fork. If I added a coil, bigger fork, chain device and a stronger handlebar. How much extra weight would I add? 3lbs? I'd only use a bike that weighed more than, lets say 32lbs, if I was using uplifts or riding World Cup DH tracks!

EDIT: Have you looked at a SC Nomad Carbon? More small bump compliance (over DW link) and very light for its capabilites. I went for the HD instead so I could change the travel.

Yeah a carbon nomad was on the list actually!

And yeah, I'm wondering whether carbon would be the best option. I've always been a fan of carbon technology since being into cars, and now have carbon bars and cranks do maybe a frame would be a good enduro choice. That was one attraction of the spicy 916 to be fair.

Mojo HD owner here.

Can highly recommend one, climbs brilliantly, descends brilliantly (although maybe not as good as something that sacrificed uphill ability for more downhill ability), very versatile and tough with great backup from the manufacturer if there are any problems.

Mine is my only bike, so is used for short rides in the local park, through to 30 mile long cross country through to trips to spain etc. It has fox 36's , large ish tyres(hans dampf), downhill tube in the rear, rockshox reverb post, 2 x9 drivetrain, flat pedals, weighs in around ~30lb. I might change the rear shock to a CCDB air or vivid but not sure I want to spend the cash.

Upsides : light'ish, strong, versatile (can be built light for XC or with more of a downhill bias with coil springs etc), great uphill , great downhill

Downsides : poor small bump compliance, quite difficult to get the suspension setup 'just right' but once you've found the sweetspot, its pretty good.

Downsides : poor small bump compliance, quite difficult to get the suspension setup 'just right' but once you've found the sweetspot, its pretty good.

You see, this is it for me... I actually think this is a very honest opinion, and one that is echoed throughout t'interweb.

But the thing is, I don't want "pretty good", I want spot on..!

Now, I'm not so naive to think that either of my bike is perfect, indeed they're far from it - the Blood is initially a falling rate design then suddenly turning to a steep rising rate, which means its a bastard to get setup perfectly. Havin said that it's simply the most fun bike I've ever ridden - it begs to be 'popped' off everything. Whereas I was quicker DH on both my Last and Commie, than I am on my Nic, but it feels 'just right' and I love the looks (to be honest the commencal supreme DH v2 was incredibly fast).

The nice thing about Nicolais are that they're so easy to get a great setup. Very neutral (I think this was said earlier), with brill geometry, & coupled with the sheer bling build quality, makes them a very special buy. All my opinion of course.

I've ridden geetees bike a few times and can honestly tell you its a great ride. So much so that I bought am AM off the back of riding his! If you came down to the SE I'd try to join you for a ride with him so you could try a bike with the new geometry. TBH you could do an awful lot worse than having his frame off him (assuming the paint work was up your strasse!)

mine:
[img] [/img]

I was wondwering how the CC rides compared to the AC? In the market for one or the other but can't get a test ride.

The CC is possibly the most underrated/overlooked bike in the Nic range, which is odd given that they're very comparable to the Orange 5. I've owned a sub-5, 2006 incarnation & 2011 5, and a Helius CC. In terms of ride the CC was closest to the 2006 5 but far stiffer.

Loads of fun and very difficult to upset. The AC is meant to be more of the same with a slightly lower BB. I haven't ridden the AC but it would definitely be on my 'next bike' list of the Blood broke.

The last herb 160 looks a good option if you want German engineering

I own a Mega and love it but if I was rich I'd buy a Nicolai, or a Rocket 🙂

i had a nicolai helius AM.

now have a nicolai helius AC 29er and it's truly BRILLIANT !

incomparable difference for trail riding. the AM would suit you if you lived in the Alps / Vosges / Eifel mountains.

the AC will suit you if you live in the UK.......

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7092/7080089343_7a30301c2e.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7092/7080089343_7a30301c2e.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/62031621@N06/7080089343/ ]IMAG0330[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/62031621@N06/ ]the_lecht_rocks[/url], on Flickr

Have you considered the Transition Covert? Especially the new carbon version about to arrive. I bought a Five having tested both, why? because the Five made a better all round package for climbing and XC. But I absolutely loved the Covert it descends beautifully. Definately the next stop along the Enduro route from your Five.

Very pretty as well...

[url= http://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_CarbonCovert.cfm?Token={ts_2012-08-20_01:02:38}-59379328 ]Covert carbon[/url]

The mojo HD frame is 1lb lighter than the AM so anything more than that in built bikes is down to the build not the frame. My AM is 29lbs and that includes dropper post and a proper 160mm fork. If I put a 32mm fork on (which I have done in the past although it doesn't suit the bike at all) I could drop almost another pound.

The AM frame though is not light. Without shock it's 3.1kg making it pretty hefty by modern standards but its also very stiff and very durable. That's a key reason to go for a Nic. The AC would suit most people in the UK I think (I'm very heavy which is why I chose fhe AM but I only run it in the shorter travel guises).

There's something not quite right about the Mojo IMO. I've tried my mates extensively and can't get it to feel right. I'm putting it down to the super short wheel base which I reckon compromises it on the downs too much. It rides like a super fast incredibly stiff trail bike rather than a balls out all mounting bike capable of riding DH tracks as well.

GW I agree that that saddle set up is very far from what I would have. I just felt the question would have been better out without the value judgement of it being described as 'daft'. that's how arguments start after all. I'd like to add though that having read other comments youve posted you clearly know what you're talking about with bikes. All the more reason then to use your knowledge wisely.

Damn this thread has made me want ANOTHER Nicolai (it would be my 7th)

Yeah I was looking at frame weights, think there's 400grams between a carbon nomad and an AM once shock is included. That sort of weight I could live with for the right frame.
It's the base of a bike afterall.

Unsure on weight of the spicy full carbon frame, I imagine that to be lower than a nomad, was just seeing what stats I could actually find. I think a 160mm bike would be a must after the five otherwise probably no point in a change.

Yeah I was looking at frame weights, think there's 400grams between a carbon nomad and an AM once shock is included. That sort of weight I could live with for the right frame.
It's the base of a bike afterall.

Think you might need to check that - Nomad C with shock (RP23) is ~6lbs (or 2.75kg).

Like for like, its a good 700g difference with shock.

That's a fair chunk before you even start.

[img] [/img]

I think he's right actually. SC Nomad, in Medium is 2.78kg with an RP23, which itself is about 300g, so yes the bare weight of the Nomad frame is about 2.48kg, ~600g lighter than the AM.

I've tried the Nomad a few times and it's brilliant. So so stiff (stiffer than my AM) and works really well over square edge hits. It's a much better bike than the Mojo in my view, but the Mojo does have the option of running as a 140mm bike that the Nomad can't offer.

The Mojo HD is a bit heavier than the Nomad (I think it's something like 200g or so); but in 140mm guise, you can run a lighter fork so net net net, you can get a Mojo built as light as a Nomad if you want.

I thought long and hard about whether to go for a Carbon Nomad or a custom Nic and in the end it came down to the fact that I can get the AM to fit me perfectly. The BB is quite high for my taste on the Nomad and I'm between sizes.

The wordy resposes on this thread from the Nicolai owners show you what kind of folk they tend to be 🙄

I am Helius AM owner so here is my wordy response 😆

"Enduro" is one of the new buzzwords we all have to live with... a couple of years ago it was "All Mountain", and before that it was "Freeride"... all the while it's pretty much been the same kind of travel that the bikes have, but they have been getting lighter and more "trail friendly" as we move away from the pure "Downhill" bikes on which they were originally based (after we all broke our XC bikes with our rad riding... all IMHO etc).

The Helius AM is (to me) still a proper "All Mountain" bike in that it is designed for the long days in the mountains which include proper long doonhall trails; a bit more winch and drop than all round trail friendly; hence it carries a little more weight and has more DH angles than some more modern "Enduro" type frames. This suits me but might not suit others.

I've had mine up quite a few mountains as I'm lucky enough to live near some, but I've also had it round the local forests and Glentress/Inners etc. For trail centre's and forests it's a bit of a steamroller to crack an egg but it's still damn good fun... but let it loose on a proper doonhall trail (and if you've got the skillz) the bike will not be an excuse. I took mine to the USA last year and rode an XC event in the desert one day, shuttled it and chased fully stormtrooper'd up locals down serious gnar on another, and rode it up a 10,000ft peak the next... a true all-rounder.

I've had mine set up everywhere from 30lbs trail mode to 35lbs for the Macavalanche; which is one of the great things about how versatile these frames are. Run an air shock and short travel setting at the back for more sedate stuff, and bung on a coil and big tyres to steamroller the gnar... or just leave it in either mode and just ride it. I've not tried a 150mm 32mm stantioned fork on it as I find them too flexy for my liking, but the latest generation of 34mm forks (Fox 34 and Deville) would be a way to drop a little weight from the 35/36 stantioned forks I've tried.

I'm currently running it at about 35lbs with a CCDB and Marz 55 RC3Ti forks for everything as I can hustle it along just fine (I'm not racing and I currently have no carbon on it)... but I am really enjoying the big long descents and the extra "feel" I get with the coil vs air shock options. If I was racing enduro or just riding more XC trails it would be stripped down and running the air shocks... and I would probably want a lighter more "trail" oriented frame (and some carbon natch 😉 ).

I break stuff and I'm a bit of a carbon-o-phobe from previous experience. I've been riding Nicolai's for about eight years now and I've not managed to break one and that's reason enough for me to be very happy to be riding one. Mine is two years old now and I've tightened the bushings but that is all... how many bearings in a nomad in that time?

A Helius AM is much more like an Alpine/Patriot than a Five, but I think the Nicolai is a bit more versatile because of the travel options; but it's still probably too much bike if all it's going to see is trail riding. For enduro racing in the UK you'll be after something lighter and more trail friendly (IMHO). For the Mega (and Euro Enduro racing) and "all mountain" riding where there are proper mountains then they are probably up there as one of the best tools for the job (unless your aiming for a podium and hence have the skillz to rag a less suitable bike through the terrain 😈 ).

PS... I'd love to try one of those Helius AC frames with or without waggon wheels. I don't think I'd change my AM for one as when I'm riding tamer trails and forests I like to ride a hardtail, but it would be fun to try one... and perhaps I need to look at carbon again 😳 .

Enjoy!

flibrose - Member

The last herb 160 looks a good option if you want German engineering

Heavy, though... The 160 and the 180 are the same frame with just a different rocker so the 160's pretty overbuilt. I love my Herb DH but not sure I'd go for a 160.

Heavy, though...

Good point, I meant to mention this. I spoke with them when I was still working out what I was going to go for.

The Herb AM weighs 4.7lbs with shock, as Northwind says, this is both for the 160mm and 180mm version.

The 160 and the 180 FR are the same frame with just a different rocker so the 160's pretty overbuilt

That's not the crazy part though. The crazy part is that it's still the same frame as when it was positioned as a 145mm trail bike 😯

Last realised that there was little point in having a bike weigh that much and not carry the travel hence they repositioned it as a 160/180mm bike!

The Herb AM weighs 4.7lbs with shock

8.3lbs without shock and hardware, and with the lightest dropouts, apparently. You probably won't break it though.

?????? Might want to double check that weight!!!!

Er yes, I mean kilos 😯

Unless the guy mailing me from Last made a mistake (which he might well of done) the weight is more than 8.3lbs.

However, he said 4.7kg. If he'd meant 3.7kg then the 8.3lbs figure is right.

[i] I think a 160mm bike would be a must after the five otherwise probably no point in a change.

[/i]

If I was you I'd just build the 5 up with whatever 'hardcore' bits you think you'd need - maybe add a pair of spaced down 160mm forks. If you still aren't happy, then go buy another frame.

But based upon seeing a 5 win (seniors, anyway) the recent Innerleithen Euro-DH round - who needs more?

Gary would have won Senior on pretty much any bike.

Ah yeah,
2.75kg nomad carbon with shock

Nicolai am with vivid is 3.28kg according to their site, so that's 500grams?

I know it's still a big amount to save on a frame.

You have to try riding one mate.

It's a long way to come, but there is also a local SC dealer down here aswell. I know them very well (Pedal & Spoke) so if you traveled to this neck of the woods, you could likely try the SC Nomad as well as a Helius. Like any bike shop, you'd get charged for trying the Nomad.

Would be happy to help arrange.

Brilliant. I definately will sort something out for trying them, it's still a while off but I want to at least get a short list of bikes.

Going to try a coil shocked five as well, just to see what that could give me.

Thanks for all the info and replies!

Worth a crack with a coil. I stuck an old Rocco coil I bought from here in place of the monarch on the mega, just as a try out on the cheap to see how big a difference it made.

OMG! It's amazingly different! Plush, linear and handles serious stuff waaaaayyyy better the the monarch. Deffo worth a crack. Unfortunately, makes my previously lovely talas 180mm RC2s seem not very responsive at all. Oh dear, the cycle continues.... 😀

My Ac, 30lb trail shredder.

[IMG] [/IMG]

I’ve had my Helius FR for over 4 years now. During the past 12 months I’ve toyed with the idea of a replacement, itchy feet and all that, but I have yet to try a bike that has felt measurably better to ride. Some were noticeably lighter (I will happily admit that there has been the odd occasion I wished I was carrying a lighter bike up the side of a mountain) but overall I’m quite happy to put up with the extra weight for the fun I get on the way down. 32lbs is the lightest I’ve managed to get the FR without spending huge amounts of cash, or compromising it’s ability too much (36 Floats and an air can at the back, Flows with light-ish big volume tyres and full XT drive train), but at the moment it is around 34.5lbs with 36 Vans and a CCDB with ti spring….the coil set up is pretty sweet and worth the extra weight…. IMHO etc etc. I have finally given up my search for a suitable replacement for the FR, so instead I’ve bought a new 140mm travel Nicolai 29er to run alongside it. The demo bike felt fantastically capable over the same terrain I take the FR, so although I haven’t bought it as a direct replacement I’m looking forward to seeing just how capable it is.