Chipps' editorial in the latest mag got me a bit annoyed. I'm not normally one for getting wound up about something in a mag but in this case I have done.
Chipps, you're calling for us to rise up and do something - but you've completely overlooked all the folks on this very forum who have done just that in whatever way to get folks riding together.
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/peaks-pootle-14th-july-its-been-a-while/page/13 ]The last pootle[/url] had over 30 riders of all abilities out enjoying the trails and was done 'not just for my own benefit'. (In fact, we also raised £40+ for Edale Mountain Rescue in a whip round too).
I can think a number of others who sort out rides just for the love of doing it...
Northern Chapters by Ton(?)
Swinley Sexy Party (Phil)
Peaks Pootles (me)
Photography pootles (Jules/nbt)
If the pootles are anything to go by, these rides have created contacts, friendships and the communinity you suggest doesn't exist.
We've even had 'youngsters' learning from old hands and grow into better riders from what I've seen.
I agree with what you're saying Chipps, but it's a shame you've not recognised what's already been/being done close to home.
you've not recognised what's already been/being done close to home.
Has he?
I thought he was bemoaning the lack of organised clubs with an official membership who are 'engaging with local stakeholders' to get MTB riding on the radar when considering countryside access and issues.
The 'group of like minded individuals going for the odd ride' was pretty ,uch covered by his description of current approach most people take?
Having said that Brighton-mtb and sussexmuddyarse seem to be doing exactly what I said in point 1) for their local woods (Stanmer and Tilgate).
Maybe I've been a bit strong. Grr.
But there's loads being done by folks out there from what I can see.
re: engaging with groups - RideSheffield are doing that up here.
As a true STW'er i have not read that article and even if i did it would not change my opinions one bit. To be fair, i don't want to ride with any of you.
I can see what he was getting at in the piece but it is a slightly glib observation as the road scene hasn't suddenly popped fuelled by a load of inspired bikers. It's grown over the years and become steeped in tradition. I think a better tack would have been to propose infecting the road scene/clubs with MTB rather than continuing the boring old segregation tack. After all, it's all cycling ain't it?
I used to organise rides in the borders for folk off of here. Had some pretty decent turn outs.
I thought he was bemoaning the lack of organised clubs with an official membership who are 'engaging with local stakeholders' to get MTB riding on the radar when considering countryside access and issues
PMBA, Singletraction, Bristol Trails Group, trogmtb... to name but a few*
*not read the article either, waiting for my prem access to begin...
But I don't much want to ride in club. Clubs involve a lot of admin, paper work and other stuff which is not riding a bike. I agree it maybe necassary to bring about change. But its a shame. I just wanna ride my bike...
I do it for the lovin', big man. Grrr...
but I've also got off my arse and stood up as IMBA rep for my area. I might not build trails, but I'm a recognisable contact point for the local authority. I'm not the only either. I'm not a member of a club though, and - well groucho marx is all I need to say.
I've had beer, can you tell?
Chipps made a completely valid point I think. Easiest way to put it into practice would be to start /join/help an mtb group attached to your local cycling club I reckon.
I bought my first "proper" (adults) bike in 1992. A year in to my first professional job, living in a small regional city with good access to the countryside.
It was a road bike, as to me mtbs were heavy and expensive. By 1994 I'd bought a lovely Gary Fisher Tassajarra 🙂
I loved riding the road bike, but wanted absolutely no part in the "closed" club scene that was an integral part of road riding. My job required late nights / working away and the whole club structure was never going to happen.
I don't see that things are any different today. Many, many riders just don't want to do their riding as part of a club - just witness the popularity of sportives - road riding without the rules (mtbing without the mud?)
This is one of the main appeals of mtbing for those that choose mtb over road riding
Wait, it's compulsory to join a club if you own a road bike? I've never once been on a road ride with anyone else. I've ridden in more organised MTB rides than road. Not sure what your point is.
Again, I've not read the article but in my limited experience or road clubs, it seems to be the organisation and committee member mentality that makes them less fun places to be.
It's the informal nature of mountain biking that's so appealing. What the likes of Chris and Jules do in the peaks is great and about as organised as I personally want it to ever get.
I've just stopped being a member of my local club. I didn't feel I got enough value for money from my subs, and was rarely around for the few trips that they ran in a year. It was only really worth it for weekly night rides ,and most of those guys I catch up with anyway. Tbh, as a busy freelancer, committing to regular rides was never going to work, and I didn't really like the politics, but lacked the time to properly engage and do anything about it...
I can see how well run clubs can work for some, and esp for roadies, but prob not for me.
Pook , I'm up in Manchester the next couple of weekends - are you running a pootle like last year? Much more my style 🙂
eviljoe - there isn't one on the next couple of weekends unfortunately. There might have been but I've been off the bike for ages with various problems - mainly weddings!
Next one is looking like October.....
Boo, shame 🙁
Nevermind- you'll just have to honeymoon back on Exmoor!
Hey Joe - how's it going? Don't suppose you're doing the Exmoor Enduro next weekend are you?
Pook D2D is on 6 October, please don't organise the Pootle for this weekend! I have time owed on a bike from a long summer of holiday selling/administering.
flyingmonkeycorps- dammit we're ships that pass in the night! Off to Manc tomorrow- Enjoy Exmoor...be grand to catch up the weekend after for a ride? (22nd-23rd?)
Pook, firstly noone is denying the Good Thing that thos eorganised rides are 🙂
However when I read the editorial (the only bit I've read so far) I interpreted it differently.
Chipps is (in my interpretation) saying that there is no club structure for people to engage with to start riding.
Want to go road riding? There are local clubs. Ask the the bike shop, they'll put you in touch. Find their website and get in touch with the admin/secretary or someone else.
I imagine it's similar for lots of other sports.
In my area it's no so dissimilar for MTB clubs. We have some very well organised clubs, a few of whom I've ridden with (Mid Air Crisis, Beamish Oddsox, Kielder Trailreavers). However the level of ease with which newbies can come out is not the same.
Joe - gutted! And even worse, I'll not be riding the weekend after as we have friends visiting from the States...
Mrs Monkey has friends that've just moved to Bournemouth and grandparents in Poole however, so we will be heading that way on a semi regularish basis
Someone once described trying to organise cyclists like herding cats.
The road bikers seem to have the whole sunday ride team strip cafe thing well sorted. MTBers seem more of the small group brigade - and maybe no bad thing given trail congestion.
Bottom line is that organising something takes time and can be a thankless task. Until you have done it you don't realise the effort it takes to keep running rides, dealing with membership, legal kak, formal meetings etc. As a member of the Leeds Cycle group (road mainly and local lobbying) it's amazing to see so many people giving up their free time to actually *do* something. I have also managed to join the Local Access Forum (group dealing with footpaths, bridleways, local strategy etc). There was no cycling representation so I thought, why not get involved? Clearly I am not going to be able to convert Leeds into a massive off-road velodrome in a couple of months but I might be able to chip away at improving and increasing bridleways etc. If you look at where cyclists have got more organised, sadly often as a direct result of a tragedy, it has had an effect, viz London, and the Times' campaign. Basically, it won't happen on it's own - change is up to us.
I tried to join an MTB club in London at one point. They invited me along for an evening ride with the caveat that if I wasn't able to keep up they'd drop me (this was on a "new members welcome" sort of ride). Given it was in an area I didn't know, I didn't fancy getting stuck out at night without any idea where I was.
I'm not currently a member of any club these days, I've previously been a member of a couple of MTB clubs and really enjoyed riding/digging with mates, but the politics and power struggles in clubs does ruin it to a certain extent over time.
I've started going on the odd group road ride lately with a couple of mates, not with a club, just a few mates churning out some miles (Often via a pub), I have to say the social side to Road riding with mates rather than a club is actually quite a good draw IMO.
I'm still not interested in joining a proper Road club, I'm not looking towards getting in to road racing, TTs or serious training TBH, but a nice Saturday or sunday morning ride with some mates now and then is ideal.
I think that is what will actually draw people into Road or MTB clubs, a more social, less race focussed Club is what a lot of new comers to any sport/disipline will be looking for, if they join and straight away its all about commitees and beasting people into races then I think that would serve to put a fair few off, a news letter packed with up-comming organised rides, Night rides, informal get togethers thats what a new entrant will be encouraged by...
a "Strong" club is a social one, not one with a small core comiteee that always seems to have the same faces and, just ropes members in to bulk out race numbers and marshalling support then ignores them till the next event...
All IMO of course...
Joe, mail me for details of rides if you have a bike and are keen to get out
Chipps is (in my interpretation) saying that there is no club structure for people to engage with to start riding.
I think that is just part of what he's saying. The informal, social side of MTBing exists and, as can be seen in the pages of this forum, is alive and well. What has slipped off the radar is the structure to bring on young talent into XC racing. Downhill is going strong, enduro seems to be growing but XC racing just hasn't got the glamour of its two younger brothers.
British Cycling has its Go-Ride scheme which I'm surprised Chipps didn't mention or research but, like any scheme it requires volunteers to pick up the baton and run with it within existing clubs. Pootles, groups of buddies, adrenalin-fuelled weekends of fun on MTBs are out there but the structure to bring on young XC racers is weak. I reckon that's where Chipps was going with this one. Maybe 8)
psling - I think you're right. It just seemed a shame to not mention the (albeit informal) efforts that are being made.
Not read the article yet so may be a bit wide of the mark, but in response to this :
wwaswas - Member
I thought he was bemoaning the lack of organised clubs with an official membership who are 'engaging with local stakeholders
If that is one key reason for founding new MTB clubs we firstly have to respect the rules that currently exist.
This means making some some concessions in sensitive and crowded areas. Riding cheeky trails and footpaths because "it's after 6pm" or "after dark" as some unwritten rule won't wash.
Creating a club that is visible and that is perceived to have some control/responsibility in the community will attract the attention of landowners and park authorities and will be perceived as the place to address concerns such as these.
The question then becomes - who wants to be the visible face of MTB riders in a particular area?
What tyres does the club use?
I think he's absolutely right. What mountain biking is lacking in this country is the establishment of a rigid and formal structure. We need to put some officious self-important types in place at the head of these structures. We need people who are fastidious about order in all things, and also unhealthily interested in building a pointless power-base for themselves in order to shore up the nagging inadequate feelings that keep them awake at night
They can then establish some committees, taking care to appoint people who aren't quite clever enough to be threatening, in order to have lots and lots of meetings to establish some rules. Then lots and lots more meetings to establish yet more rules. Everyone then taking part in the sport in any way could then sign up to these rules, on pain of death. To be assessed bi-monthly at more meetings. There should be more meetings, probably weekly, to constantly review the rules.
Only when all this is in place can people look as happy, joyful, and care-free as all the road clubs riders I see
We started an MTB only club in Sherwood Pines in 2010. We are at 140+ members now.
We have plenty of rides weekly and do not adopte the keep-up-or-dropped elitism. (Hey it's all relative, there is always someone faster than the fast guys.)
We have socials, events and special ride-outs as well as weekly rides that anyone can join member or not.
After being chairman for a year, I moved on and let the club evolve. It's still doing pretty well and for £20 I can't think of better value for our area.
Still ... on the downside you get pushed from pillar to post by every organisation going for marshals and event staff. You spend hours a week doing admin and promoting the club. And at the end of it you just realise you want to ride. Do you need a club for that? Perhaps some don't but a lot do and like the motivation of fixed rides and people badgering them.
I think MTB only clubs need more of a presence and the people to do it come from within. Give it a go!
SFB to the forum
I am loving the I dont buy the mag or subscribe but let me pitch in with my opinion...perhaps we should save these for when folk moan it is not a democracy
I have not read it yet
I have taken noobs out but even on tamish trails it can be like ruining a ride just to watch someoen push a bike uphil and then push it down hill. Worse is when they have no sense of danger or their own skill level.
I think most of us are not into massive groups
Lol at binners. You are so right.
I think establishing XC/DH clubs would help young folk get into the sport. But as a near-middle-aged-middle-class-professional-weekend-warrior, would hate to join that kind of club. Our "stealth" club is just a small, informal group of riding friends for sharing company, trails, clearance effort and beers. No fees, no leadership, no structure, no politics, no AGMs, no commitments, no "presence". Just riding.
I am loving the I dont buy the mag or subscribe but let me pitch in with my opinion...
Who, where?
I’ve been a member of Roadie Clubs, MTB Clubs and Sailing Clubs..
I can’t think of anything worse than an MTB Club. Honestly it just doesn’t work, once rules are in place it falls apart and invariably rests on the shoulders of one person to/who organises everything and anything. I dropped out of my local MTB club for this very reason and now ride with mates who too dropped out. IMO we ride better in a smaller group of like minded individuals rather than a “welcome all” environment.
Don’t dismiss my opinion as non inclusive, I am totally into that, just not now where all I want to do is ride hard..
Sailing clubs are just full to the brim of internal and external politics, you don’t even want to go there chaps.
I've just joined a fairly large club (50+?) this year for the first time. We meet every sunday (and any other day possible) to engage in topical, non-offensive debate, not drink beer and not set fire to stuff. sometimes we ride bikes a bit.
Clubs work fine in Manchester, not as described at all.
If the sport needs clubs to give it the sort of structure that would lead to influence in decisions that affect where people can ride etc, the solution might be to look at the reason clubs exist in other sports.
They usually exist so you can take part in team competition. With MTB you can sign up to do SITS with whoever you like, the same event in road riding or running you'd need to be part of the same affiliated club. So to do these events people need to be in a Club, so club's exist.
If that's what the sport needs, there's an obvious solution. This place would go into meltdown though if British Cycling started telling people who they could and couldn't race with!
bikebuoy has it, most roadie clubs are full of miserable gits more intent on politics and ensuring any newcomers are 'taught their place' than having a laugh. Hence triathlon being so popular, no stupid roadie rules.
Clubs and fun don't mix. MTB is all about fun.
We meet every sunday (and any other day possible) to engage in topical, non-offensive debate, not drink beer and not set fire to stuff.
I'll only ride with drunken, argumentative arsonists 😀
The problem with that article - and the one that largely makes it irrelevant to me - is that it repeatedly uses the word "sport". For the vast majority of mountain bike owners, it's not a sport it's simply a past-time.
Is the goal to have more folk winning at XC racing - or to have a greater say in government/council policy regarding cycling and cycle facilities? If it's the latter then surely we should be encouraging folk to join something like CTC?
PMBA, Singletraction, Bristol Trails Group, trogmtb... to name but a few*
I'm sure he talked to all these groups before writing the article 😉
We are unusual as we are a loose collection of people who decided to do something. That's resulted in 20 mtb XC races in the last 4 years, we are affiliated to BC for insurance purposes and 80%+ of the competitors don't have a BC racing licence.
If you want to join us that's great (we want new members) as long as you are committed to putting on the race series and supporting local charities and encouraging people to race their bikes. We don't have a riding section/ team, we just ride bikes. We have given free coaching sessions (by someone competent not me) to racers and marshals from the series and generally try do what we can to create a friendly focus for all.
To be honest I don't know why people make a big thing about "x" type of club is unwelcoming etc. There's plenty of choice out there and if you don't like the choice form your own £60-70 to affiliate to BC or CTC (BC for racing, CTC for access and general riding around), couple of hours in the pub doing the start up forms and setting up the faceache page and you are off, club formed, the world engaged. Max admin is the annual cheque for renewal of the affiliation, split it equally and spend the rest of your money on beer and bike bits.most roadie clubs are full of miserable gits more intent on politics and ensuring any newcomers are 'taught their place' than having a laugh
Binners - you need a TV show 🙂
Of all the cyclists I know, very few are actually members of any sort of club or organisation. Those that are, belong to road racing clubs, where I can see that there needs to be an organised structure for racing and results etc. As for other cycling activities, I and several people I know have been organising rides with others for years, and there's no more organisation than maybe some emails and texts sent of where to meet etc. This seems to work perfectly well, and doesn't make participants feel obliged to do anything, and not feel pressured to please other 'club' members. We just join up for bike rides, whether they be quite rides on country lanes, a jaunt around town from pub to pub, or weekends somewhere wild and rugged for mtb fun. None of us feel the need for any more 'structure', as the existing status quo works perfectly well.
It seems that there is an obsession with organisation, rules and beauraucracy in this country; you have to be a 'member' in order to participate. My experience of sporting clubs is that they are often run by people who like to control everything, and tend to revolve around those individuals, rather than exist for the benefit of all members. Many don't seem to last very long, as most people naturally don't really like rigid, regimented structures for their leidure activities.
I think cycling should just be something you can 'do', whoever you are, rrather rthan a movement you need to 'bleong' to.
[quote=mikeconnor ]I think cycling should just be something you can 'do', whoever you are, rrather rthan a movement you need to 'bleong' to.
+1 - except that being organised into a collective can make it easier to get your voice heard when it comes to developing and improving things.
Some good points up there. I think clubs do have an important place, but why not have a "cycling club" rather than a road club and another MTB club? Most roadies I know enjoy riding mountain bikes too. Bring the BMXers in too...that'll shake up the old guard 🙂
Yes mike imagine what good you could achieve if you and a few like minded individuals got together in order to improve things and have your voice heard via say a [s]protest or actual organisation[/s] very loose affiliation of like minded individuals doing a carnival procession 😉
Aren't clubs just for folk who don't already have any of their own friends?
I think the article was fairly spot on although it did rather miss the opportunity to big up what already exists, even locally, PMBA, Brownbacks, Gisburn Trail Builders, Singletraction etc. You don't have to create your own club, just give a bit of support to those (few) who have got off their backsides and done something.
It's quite gratifying to see how many people have heard of PMBA, we just need a bit more interaction now from local riders. All that's often needed is to join the group (PMBA membership is a fiver, it's the fact you've put your hand in your pocket that counts, not the amount), turn up to the odd meeting and in PMBA's case actually leave some feedback on the website (please) so we can get some debate going. For those few people (and it is the same core of 20 people building Gisburn, running PMBA, keeping the Brownbacks series going, driving Singletraction) things can get a bit lonely.
no you probably don't but trails centres don't build themselves, race series don't just happen, access issues don't just get resolved and money doesn't just suddenly appear for new trails.None of us feel the need for structure
Can't believe we've not had this quote yet...
[i]I Don’t Want to Belong to Any Club That Will Accept Me as a Member[/i]
Aren't clubs just for folk who don't already have any of their own friends?
Not sure whether that was meant tongue-in-cheek or not. It's as valid a reason as any for clubs existing. How do you meet like-minded people when you move to a new area?
How do you meet like-minded people when you move to a new area?
Duh. Obviously you never leave Royston Vasey where you were born and raised. You don't want to mix with any of those repulsive and terrifying outsiders, they might eat your children (or widen your horizons).
How do you meet like-minded people when you move to a new area?
I wander around the streets, randomly shaking hands with people and offering them a swig of my White Lightning
I wander around the streets, randomly shaking hands with people and offering them a swig of my White Lightning
I do that too; we should start a club
I always wondered how you and hora had met
I have heard Hora's white lightining is very beautiful
White Lightning, you posh t**ts.
no you probably don't but trails centres don't build themselves, race series don't just happen, access issues don't just get resolved and money doesn't just suddenly appear for new trails.
In fairness, this type of activity is enjoyed by a relatively very small number of cyclists, but I agree that proper organisation has it's place. Perhaps social media such as Facebook can play a role in providing cyclists with a collective voice for when such issues arse?
Freudian slip
Aren't clubs just for folk who don't already have any of their own friends?Not sure whether that was meant tongue-in-cheek or not. It's as valid a reason as any for clubs existing. How do you meet like-minded people when you move to a new area?
It was mean't as a joke, I suppose i should have used a 😉
We will survive and thrive as we currently are, Chipps point was that we will always be in the shadow of road biking without the club infrastructure. I think this is true.
I think Chipps point is what happens to a 10 year old kid who saw the racing at Hadleigh, and decided they wanted to have a go. At this point unless they have a parent / relative / older brother, etc. there's very little in the way of structure for them to go through. BC have a setup at the top level, and through Go Ride have riding for all but there is no 'competitive' structure that younger participants can access.
If you want to have a go at swimming, or cricket or athletics or... there's a whole structure to access where you can join clubs, get coaching, gain experience. Most of which are staffed by adult volunteers who are giving back something to a sport they love, for the future success of that sport. Some might be parents, but from experience many are not, or may be parents of the past whose kids are now grown up too but they continue to volunteer and contribute for the benefit of the next generation.
These loose Facebook style affiliations that many MTBers belong to are essentially selfish, they serve your needs and no-one else's. I think that's Chipp's point.
It’s time we all got out and did something that wasn’t just for
our own benefit. Cycling is in the spotlight and mountain biking
still lurks in the shadows.
The legacy of these games won't be the medal haul, or the world class facilities; it'll be measured by a general increase in the exercise levels of the population and by inspiring our kids to get off the PS or Wii or whatever it is they do and go and ride a bike or go for a run or join a swimming club. If that's important to you, now's the time to do something about it. And at the very least, if someone else does have the gumption to start a club or run an event then do them the courtesy of stopping all the sneering and laughing about the 'types of people who run/join clubs' because without them, i don't think we'd have seen a fraction of the medals that we won these past few glorious weeks.
In fairness, this type of activity is enjoyed by a relatively very small number of cyclists, but I agree that proper organisation has it's place.
I think you'd be surprised by the number of riders who only use trail centres, plus access issues affect us even if you don't think they do. We only need the landowners (who are much more organised) to decide to clamp down on mountain bikers and we'll have some major issues.
I think you'd be surprised by the number of riders who only use trail centres,
I am not sure I would call someone who only uses trail centres a rider 😉
Now, now, we're all in it together.....
We're not far off being one huge club already. We have this place and others to communicate. We ride in places that have been accessed only with huge amounts of semi blazer wearing officialdom. We enter events that only go ahead because some poor sod has spent six months filling in forms. Even the cool ones that have beer require a licence that someone has gone to the trouble to get.
Not many of us are individuals.
Years back I was part of the Woburn Crankers which was an informal local/internet based outfit. It just seemed to strike it right. We did rides, beer, curries, 24's, but also kept an eye on events local to us. Which was often just a case of keeping in with the local ranger.
Now I'm the founder member and chairman of the local road club. I'm trying to incorporate mountainbiking, but there doesn't seem to much interest from the mountain bike fraternity. And one of the issues was trusting MTB'ers to behave when in a club jersey i.e no telling rangers to F off and annoying walkers on footpaths.
And a final note, I find large groups of MTBers very anti social. I remember organising STW rides years ago thinking they'd be great, but I just remember how annoying it was for the other countryside users.
These loose Facebook style affiliations that many MTBers belong to are essentially selfish, they serve your needs and no-one else's. I think that's Chipp's point.
Interesting point. Totally bogus. The last thing kids need is me coaching them into all my bad habits. And if you want to ride with us in our local trails you only have to ask on here.
Can't remember who to credit this quote to, but IMHO it's about right - 'To be effective, a committee should consist of no more than three people, two of whom should be absent..'
I reckon that typically applies to many clubs too. 😕
I'm not suggesting - far from it - that people should drop everything to set up as a kid's club with coaching. And OK, I was stretching a point to make a point, I'm sure if I asked you'd be happy to let me tag along on a ride.
But what if some kid's dad called you up and asked you if their 12 year old son could start joining your rides. He might not be able to keep up to start with and he gets tired after an hour but he has to start somewhere. Can i drop him off at yours and pick him up an hour later?
I guess not, because it doesn't suit your requirements, in other words you are selfish. Maybe not unreasonably but isn't that the definition, putting your needs before the needs of others ([i]OED: concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure[/i]) But unbelievably there are people who will happily give up their time to do this, to help schools out setting up after hours MTB clubs, and to put other's enjoyment before their own.
It's a general, not a personal comment, but to all; don't knock those that will, just because you won't.
theotherjonv, very good shout.
Definitely some very valid points on here, mostly from theotherjonv. For years I played hockey. My maths teacher was the local club sec and put in an immense amount of work to bring through young players. Many of the club - myself included - volunteered to take the kids to local tournaments, help out with coaching and make them feel welcome in this sport we all loved. Without this - and clubs like it around the UK - we probably wouldn't be fielding world class standard hockey teams in the world champs and the Olympics. None of us thought it was out of the ordinary to give up our time up to help these young 'uns. It was all in the best interests of the sport and actually quite satisfying.
I totally get what Chipps is talking about.
Can i drop him off at yours and pick him up an hour later?
In fact, one club member is bringing his 12yo on Sundays ride. His first ride with big boys! I organised an STW ride a couple of years back and folks turned up with some little lads which I didn't expect. They did half the route and had fun! We're not exclusive but were not going to set up kids after school class either.
Nail on the head right there. As long as your Dad's involved you can come too. What about all those kids whose Dad isn't keen to get into it, or isn't capable of committing the time and effort to support their kids. Shame on them, but does the kid deserve to be discarded as well?
I was secretary and welfare officer at my cricket club for years. Believe me, for every parent that's prepared to give up a morning assisting with coaching or organising an age group team, there are 2 or 3 who think it's a creche so they can read the papers for 3 hours on a sunday morning.
Could be completely wrong here but it's the commitment that puts people off.
Actually, it's quite interesting when volunteering - sometimes the people you least expect to help do actually turn up on a regular basis.
Apologies, I'm not really answering the original points made!
CG; I'm sure it is but no-one who stood on the podium at the Olympics would have stood there without the dedication and commitment of an army of support people. Parents, coaches, volunteers......
But it's endemic in all the sports I've been involved with. A quote from elsewhere; the people who stand for committees are the people who should never be on committees. Many's the time I offered to resign as club secretary based on that point, but oddly no-one ever wanted to take the role on, just to moan about how the committee weren't doing it as they would have.
This is where clubs are good, if you have people to organise, then volunteers don't have to commit as heavily as the same few people doing the whole task. eg: the local road club TT10. There are a couple of major junctions on the route, if everyone volunteers to marshall a junction or act as timekeeper once over the 10 week season, then you miss one week out of the season while everyone else rides, and vice versa. But you still need someone 'in charge' to draw up a rota.
bikebuoy has it, most roadie clubs are full of miserable gits more intent on politics and ensuring any newcomers are 'taught their place' than having a laugh.
Sounds like STW is a mtb club then...
Lol!
I get your point theotherjon. I see it in the running clubs and its social value. I just don't think that formality or sport development angle is for us.
Just read it and it seems fair to me.
I don't agree with this though
bikebuoy has it, most roadie clubs are full of miserable gits more intent on politics and ensuring any newcomers are 'taught their place' than having a laugh. Hence triathlon being so popular, no stupid roadie rules.
Most road clubs like mine have, as in our case. Thursday evening newcomers rides, Saturday Go-Ride for kids and a three tier Sunday ride. Those alone require a good few members give up their riding time to help.
I agree to an extent about having a laugh, but it is 'road' riding. So pub stops and having a good old giggle on the highway aren't a brilliant idea.
I don't know what stupid roadie rules are to be honest?
[i]Hence triathlon being so popular, no stupid roadie rules.[/i]
Try undoing your helmet before you are allowed to when doing a Tri, then talk to me about stupid rules...
Don't like doing the club thing. Hate having to go at specific times rather than when I want. Hate being at the back when the really fit folk ride off. Hate having the route chosen by someone else. Usually enjoy the banter with the folk but it's not enough to mask the downs.
Riding alone or with a few friends is where it's at for me.
Sorry I'm a bit late to the party - you've been having a fine time without me though (and eaten all the Twiglets!)
This was the kind of debate I was hoping to generate... I did do some research (only 17% of STW members are in a local mountain bike club. Yes, there are 14% 'some other yes' answers, which I take to be 'We're not actually a club, but we're a bunch of mates who meet regularly'), I do know about the fine efforts of GoRace and GoRide and the excellent clubs like Brownbacks and Singletraction who help put on races and build trails, but it's by far the minority. I've also spoken to BC, Scottish Cycling and I'm also a race organiser myself... Many of the points I was trying to put over have been raised above - and very well.
I reckon the main gist of what I was trying to get over is:
Having some 'official' local face of mountain biking really helps when the council want to come and flatten your local trails - it doesn't have to be a club with a charter and a committee, but it needs to be official enough that the council/landowners recognise and respect it.
And, without a club structure and hierarchy, ALL of our promising young riders will get siphoned off into road and track programmes if we're not careful. If you're a good rider, BC scouts aren't going to push you towards mountain biking because it is still, at heart, a road and track organisation - and yet we wonder why we only had one guy and one girl in our own home mountain biking event.
No, we don't need clubs to go and ride trails, have fun or enjoy the countryside, but if we don't have something at least vaguely in place throughout the country, we can't complain when we don't have future mountain bike champions and when our trails are 'improved' without us being consulted, because who are 'us' anyway?
This bit from Road.cc kind of illustrates one of my points: "Newport Velodrome has been swamped by requests by people desperate to try their hand at track cycling, thanks to the Olympic cycling successes over the summer." - so where do they go if they're desperate to try mountain biking?