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Question for those using Zwift to do a training plan, does Zwift direct you whether you should be sat or stood during a session?
They do, but workouts where you are instructed to get out of the saddle are very rare from ones I've done. I did https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/zwift-racing/week-6-2-leg-openers and it suggesting getting out of the saddle for the first half of the final two sprints, but I didn't bother (110rpm cadence isn't that extreme for me).
As much as I want to lose the excess weight I've put on especially over the last 12 months, my restraint is awful in the winter months, as is common for those like myself with SAD that often crave carbs in any form.
I really need to do a FTP test and see if intervals.icu is right in thinking it's now close to 295W rather than the 264W. I've ridden everyday since 2nd Nov, just after my ~3.5 week flu in October, up until Xmas it was a lot of z1/2 with usually just one sub 40min "Oh Crit" race per week. Since early Jan, I've typically been doing three sub 15min Team Electric Spirit sprint races each week along with plenty of z1/2 and my race power average has improved ~20W... But whether I could flog myself at that pace from ~14mins to 20mins at over 300W is the big question. I've not done 20mins+ at z4+ since I started these lunchtime sprints.
Intervals.icu is set on a max effort of 5mins minimum by default, your estimated FTP is extrapolated from a typical power curve anchored on a recent workout/Zwift race etc.
If you've been doing lots of short sharp efforts then your modelled number may not be close to what you can currently achieve using the 20 minute format - depends a little on your rider type.
You could try going to settings and increasing the miniumum duration for eFTP, knock it up to 15 minutes perhaps? May give you a more realistic 20m target until you've trained more at longer durations.
are Zwift races the best way for cycling training
Realistically, no. AFAIK no pro cyclist or triathlete is using weekday Zwift racing as a training strategy. But that said, presumably no one here is a pro, and none of us are relying on race results to pay the mortgage. Zwift races are obviously a lot more productive than couch surfing, and if you enjoy them, why not? Perhaps a targetted plan would get better results, but you'll have to decide how much that really matters to you 🙂
Reading about swimming training is so overwhelming – I don’t really care that much, what I want is a simple route to get up to 1km without much faff.
There isn't a simple route to get up to 1km swimming, at least not if you want to do it reasonably well. Swimming is 80% technique / 20% fitness, and that technique is a right pain to learn. Youtube videos will give you some decent pointers, but really the only way to actually get better is to take classes. But again, we're not pros here, and if your aim is just to get to the end before cutoff you could probably just do the last 500m breaststroke.
But again, we’re not pros here, and if your aim is just to get to the end before cutoff you could probably just do the last 500m breaststroke.
Yeah, I just want to be able to do the event reasonably well. The target I've set myself is to do it all crawl without pausing, and the stretch goal is 20 minutes.
Zwift races are obviously a lot more productive than couch surfing, and if you enjoy them, why not?
Yes, and in my experience they are also much more productive than an evening 60-90 min spin on a local ride. Because they are higher intensity. I can't keep up that intensity on a normal ride with traffic, urban roads and descents and everything, but all the time I'm negotiating that stuff adds fatigue and body load without any specific training benefit. So whilst not perfect it has value.
And of course, the best workout is the one you don't put off because you are lazy, and my races are team events so that is a key factor.
There's also the motivation element for a Zwift race against a structured session...
Yeah, I just want to be able to do the event reasonably well. The target I’ve set myself is to do it all crawl without pausing, and the stretch goal is 20 minutes.
I've swam twice a week through Jan and have just hit 1000m, but doing 2 x 500 and my times are in the 22mins, I reckon another month to get my 1000m to around 20mins, going back to your previous post about plan, def get the second or more swim session in!
A poor result on my first FTP test for ages. My FTP appears to have gone down, but my average HR for that kind of effort has also gone down. It looks like the zwift racing I've been doing has improved my VO2 max but not my muscular strength so my heart is easily getting oxygen to my muscles but they cannot pedal hard enough to stress it as much.
It's as if I've months of base riding into one month of Zwift. So I think I'm going to drop the Thursday TTT for a high intensity interval session.
Molgrips if you want muscular endurance this early post base you may just look at some Z3 rather than high intensity, and if you really want to build it fast lower the cadence e.g mid z3 at 65rpm on a turbo will feel like climbing a 1-3% gradient.
Just picking up on this one again - just coming to the end of the sweet spot training part of a trainer road training plan. Aiming for end of June when I have a 3 day mtb long weekend in South Wales.
In particular this training plan seems to be working better than previous ones. I think I came out of the winter a lot lighter than last winter (84kgs vs 77kgs) knocked off 2 kgs of Christmas excess and now sticking around a stable weight of 75kgs (I’m 5’9 but dabble with weight training as well so I don’t have an upper body like Chris Froome).
Presumably this is a better base to push power / stamina up than when you’re both trying to lose weight and get decent training in.
The sweet spot seems to have given me a better ability to keep a higher cadence on road bike commuting whilst still putting out what feels like decent power. In terms of mtb I can push harder for longer on parts of the trail - plus climbing is definitely easier. Mtb performance is definitely my priority.
I’ve got a week next week of much lower effort turbo sessions before going into a block with a lot of vo2 workouts in there. Are they to build peak power effectively - with the sweet spot having built a bit of a base?
Yep, sweetspot just replaces traditional base - it's considered more practical for those with families, jobs etc. who may not have time to put in hours of low aerobic.
Ah right - it’s definitely more practical thats for sure. I can grab 45 mins to an hour several days a week for sweet spot - but couldn’t find time to do hours and hours of Z2 style training. Previously (before having a family) I had more time for riding but I don’t think I ever got to feeling as good on the bike as I do know with a more focused plan.
Scanned thru the recent posts on this page and can’t see anyone that has answered the rocker plate question from a few months ago. I have just got one and yes it was expensive but I have gone from training for an hour and having coccyx pain to doing 2 hours with no problems apart from my fitness!!. Got a side to side and forward back plate and it feels odd at first but now feels very natural. Hopefully will help push my fitness as I can jump on and do the base miles cos when I’m outside I go a lot harder than I should.
The plates are a game changer if your trainer lacks any sort of flex. @teamslug how are you getting on with it?
Can I hit you lot with a bit of a left field question?
I don't have access to my turbo at the moment however I do have a gym with a concept 2 rower. How transferable do you think intervals on the rowing machine will be for mountainbiking? Does anyone have any suggested sessions?
I can run a few times a week to keep up my ploddy base fitness but despise running intervals so in my head thats when I'd like to use the rower. I had a go at an interval session the other day and it seemed like a good workout, something like 5x 1000m efforts with 2min rests and I was quite cooked at the end. I'm still not 100% sure how it works though!
I set the lever to the middle, 5 or 6, I'd read that this doesn't make any difference to the resistance or the distance calculation but don't quite understand how all the inputs work together? I was doing the 1000m intervals at about 2:00min/500m pace, to go faster do I need to up the stroke speed or push harder? or either?
Cheers for any help
First thing to know is that Concept2 adjustment is not resistance / power adjustment: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/damper-setting-101
For VO2max capacity the rowing will transfer quite well to cycling. One thing to look for is ensuring good posture when rowing as in general cyclists strength is mostly in legs.
My first ever successful FTP test! 😁
Have attempted maybe three previously but always paced them wrong and never managed the full 20.
This time I limped over the line with snot dangling from my nose and sweat pouring off me, so I'll consider that well paced! 😎
Only problem is I did it on a set of rollers. I have the power curve for the rollers so I know my pace of 28km/h should in theory equal a power of 337W or FTP of 320W, but I also know I'm absolutely NOT that strong, so I'm guessing the curve was developed by a heavier rider or someone with softer tyres or a less well waxed chain 🙄
Either way, I know what virtual power to train to now, even if I don't know my *actual* FTP (although being distanced on the CX course over an hour by a guy averaging 250W should give me a hint ☹️)
Mega-bump!
Ignoring my post above (10 months old now anyway, lots of viral water under the bridge since then 🙄) I'm now eyeing up 2024 events and potentially a multi-day European adventure in September.
Before then though I'll have the opportunity to take 4 or maybe even 5 days to do a wee mini-tour in Scotland, ostensibly to take in some amazing looking roads I've seen around Kyle of Lochalsh etc.
Just wondering how best to incorporate three or four days touring miles into a training plan. I was thinking doing them three months out (e.g. May time) to top up my winter/spring base training before really getting into a summer of more high intensity hill reps and shorter weekend rides, before doing a couple more 'big' days in the run up to the September event.
I've not seen many articles about how to utilise a week long endurance block properly, anyone any tips or suggestions?
Ta
I was going to start another thread but this resurrection seems timely.
I started a new job about a year ago and my commute dropped from 10km to 2.5km. I really noticed this year that my mountain biking has suffered.
I do weight training 5 days a week (little and often) and mountain bike at the weekend. I feel great for the first hour but then it just seems like my body feels terrible. I also feel pretty shit the next day.
I'm guessing that I wasn't really appreciating the benefit that 50 minutes of daily low effort commuting was giving me so I've started trying to figure out how to recreate that and discovered I was probably doing 4-5 hours of zone 2 training per week with my commuting which is now no longer there.
One thing I'm not sure about though is when they say 80% of your training should be zone 2. Between the weight training (4-5 hours) and the mtb (3-4 hours) per week, that would mean I'd need to do between 35 and 45 hours of zone 2 training per week. Which seems a bit excessive.
So, is there anywhere that gives guidance on the amount and best way of adding zone 2 training for people who are already doing a lot of high intensity exercise?
My plan is to add a couple of 2 hour zone 2 road rides in each week as that should more or less replace the commuting I used to do but I wonder if there is a better strategy?
I believe the 80/20 rule refers to the actual sessions rather than the total time. I.e. if you're doing 5 sessions a week, one should be really hard, and the other four should be easy.
OK, but isn't just that another way of stating the same problem. If I go by the 'best practice' I'm looking at finding time for 35 zone 2 sessions a week.
I'm trying to find guidance for people who are already doing a lot of high intensity work.
The weight training is its own thing, it doesn't factor into the z2 / high intensity tally for cycling. It's obv v important but no one strong at cycling lifts five times a week. If you could dial that back it would give you more options on the bike.
Not sure if I agree with that but lets say, for the sake of argument, that you're right.
Even with only 2 mtb rides per week, if you stick to the 80% rule, that means you should be doing 10 zone 2 sessions per week.
Is there a more 'real world' guideline for the amount of zone 2 work we should be doing?
It doesn't mean that as a mtb ride isn't high intensity z3 for most people.
Basically, Bruce, park the plates for a day or two, go for a 2/3 hour ride and all will be well for the weekend. This ersatz z2 accountancy is meaningless at the volume / intensity you're currently doing.
I do weight training 5 days a week (little and often) and mountain bike at the weekend. I feel great for the first hour but then it just seems like my body feels terrible. I also feel pretty shit the next day.
Are you sure you just aren't over-trained? If your weight lifting and your MTB is really 'high intensity' then I'll bet there are very few professional riders even doing that level of high intensity per week! Even if it was lower intensity it might still add up as sort of Z3 type effort which is still quite a lot at 8-9 hours a week.
Dylan Johnson (my go-to on pretty much any training subject) suggests that if you're really lifting at high intensity you should be doing it 2-3 times a week maximum, and the rest of your riding should be Z1 or at best Z2 at the weekend. Then come summer you drop your lifting frequency and start adding in riding intensity.
Are you sure you just aren’t over-trained?
I've been lifting like this for two years.
The only thing that's changed in the last year is my commute has disappeared.
I didn't think this would matter since I assumed my 50 - 60 minutes of commuting each day was contributing very little to my overall fitness. Apparently I was wrong.
So now, instead of 'accidently' getting some zone 2 in I'm trying to find some guidance about how to 'intentionally' get some zone 2 work in and it's proving difficult because, frankly nothing seems to be getting written about it.
Everything I read seems to be about endurance athletes rather than the type of mtbing I do (winch and plummet) which is probably closer to what a footballer or rugby player does in terms of the duration of efforts.
You could go back to commuting 10k each way by finding a longer way round, and make sure all that is Z2. Then you're intentionally getting a large block of Z2 in the week to go with the higher intensity weekend jaunt. Or you could slow down/rethink the weekend MTB and intentionally make more of that Z2. You could do laps of the WC XCO course 😉
Maybe try a different weights schedule so you do fewer but harder sessions and use the time you've saved there to get some Z2 bike in.
The Z2 is going to help regardless, but don't you also need to do one HIIT session to boost that kind of effort if you're winch and plummet. You could make a couple of return commutes full chat to get that in.
You could go back to commuting 10k each way by finding a longer way round, and make sure all that is Z2.
Yeah, could do, although the time I've saved has already been 'taken' in terms of weekly schedules for picking up the kids/shopping/cooking/etc. I could reclaim it but I'm not sure if 5 short zone 2 sessions is better than 1 or 2 long sessions which I now have the option to do with the saved commuting time. From what I've read, little and often isn't so much of a benefit for zone 2 and it's only after the first 30 minutes or so you really start getting the benefit. Obviously there is some benefit to those 30 minute (or less) sessions as I'm definitely feeling the lack of them.
Or you could slow down/rethink the weekend MTB and intentionally make more of that Z2.
That is an option, although it would mean a lot of getting off and pushing for the kind of trails I ride. Lots of short but nasty climbs. The other thing is that I like to kind of keep the mtb for fun and not worry too much about heart rates and what not. Also, I'm quite time limited and want to get as much bang for my buck as I can in the time I've got available.
Anyway, reading some of the Hybrid Athlete stuff, it looks like 150 to 180 minutes is a good target to aim for. I think what I'll do is try a 1 hour session during the week and a 2 hour session on Saturday or Sunday morning before the kids are ready to start doing stuff.
It really is crazy just how much time and thought has to go into keeping yourself fit enough to go mtbing after you've had kids!