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[Closed] The evolution of e-bikes!

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How so, weeksy? I’ve borrowed one twice, other than being much easier up a slow, steep hill (and a couple of great new line choices up naggery hills), I really don’t think there’s much difference

In exactly that context really. Just the ease of pedalling without actually pedalling (sort of)

I didn't do any tech/downhill stuff on the test rides i had, but i saw where they're just completely different animals on the flat/uphill


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 8:21 am
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I think we’re making the same point, just from a different viewpoint.

An ebike is arguably not much faster (if at all) anywhere than a really strong, really fit rider. Do they also need regulation on the trail. 😉


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 8:29 am
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"hope cyclists eventually evolve into not being scared of Ebikes, start thinking with common sense and stop crying about new laws they think we need to save the public from a motor assisted bike."

Your comprehension/interpretation Skills are lacking .

Are you an MP. What you have written is not what the "crying" as you put it is about .


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 8:32 am
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An ebike is arguably not much faster (if at all) anywhere than a really strong, really fit rider. Do they also need regulation on the trail.

What you are missing is the desperate pleas to have current restrictions upped and a higher assist speed allowed. Keep pushing that game and you are starting to ask for an electric motorbike or moped. You are stepping into an already regulated space.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 8:36 am
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I don’t hear the same pleas. I think the limit is about right - as I said for me they are about help being winched back up a hill...

On the other hand, on the cycle path alongside a busy dual carriageway I can hold, say, 24mph on my road bike. Would an ebike at the same speed be any more dangerous?


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 8:47 am
 colp
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What you are missing is the desperate pleas to have current restrictions upped and a higher assist speed allowed

Bloody hell, THM has joined the thread.

There were no desperate pleas, a couple of us just said that the 15mph cut out does feel a little low in some applications.

@jekkyl

Yes mate, the Powerfly has a walk mode. I’ve not used it yet but I think you activate it by holding down 2 buttons then releasing 1 of them. I’m sure the shop will know.

I think they put it in for all of the singlespeed gravel types so that they can walk down any downhill bits.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 8:56 am
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it baffles me why people care how or why other folk ride their bikes OR they type of bike they ride, does it really matter to your fragile ego's if someone pedals past you with a battery on their bike???? or a fatbike? Bmx? roadie??? who truly cares? them folks may be coming off an injury/illness/divorce or some other life changing event/problem and riding ANY bike could be their way back to wellness/happiness, its only riding bikes people! we're only riding bikes! some have skinny wheels, some have fat wheels and some have a little assistance, but its all only riding bikes and getting out in the fresh air 🙂


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:01 am
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it baffles me why people care how or why other folk ride their bikes OR they type of bike they ride, does it really matter to your fragile ego’s if someone pedals past you with a battery on their bike????

Because it has the potential to increase the negative legislation of where and when the people without batteries are able to ride.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:10 am
 colp
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It’s very doubtful though. With Obesity on the rise, it would take a pretty stupid bunch of politicians to start legislating again any form of physical exercise.

Oh Christ, hang on .......


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:16 am
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im outta here!


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:19 am
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This thread is great. STW distilled. I’d love a go on an ebike and really don’t understand the hate. It’s not like it stops you from riding a normal bike. Just ride what you like.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:30 am
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On the other hand, on the cycle path alongside a busy dual carriageway I can hold, say, 24mph on my road bike. Would an ebike at the same speed be any more dangerous?

24mph is not a casual road bike speed.

Experience of the commuter brigade in London is that the self-selecting sample of e-bike riders who have derestricted (whatever) their bikes also have a high proportion of nitwits who believe that their powered bike gives them a right to barge their way to the front at the lights.  Nailing the throttle (whatever) off the lights is their justification.  The non-casual road bike riders who can match and exceed their speeds between the lights don't behave like this and are generally courteous, so why can't the nitwits just be pleasant to be around.  Answer: because they are nitwits.

Nitwits will be nitwits and there is no proof that currently notable nitwit behaviour on derestricted e-bikes from a self-selecting sample of the self-interested can be extrapolated to the general population.  Correlation and causation are different things.

Maybe the anti-ebike anxiety expressed here is an anti-nitwit anxiety.  It becomes convenient to conflate the two just as "white vans", "audis" and "pizza delivery scooters" are the conflated embodiment of the worst behaviours on our roads.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:34 am
 sbob
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Yes mate, the Powerfly has a walk mode. I’ve not used it yet but I think you activate it by holding down 2 buttons then releasing 1 of them. I’m sure the shop will know.

Is that legal?


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:39 am
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No one chipped them then?

i would...😏


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:41 am
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I wonder why they don't let 29mph limitsd mopeds on mixed/shared pathways.

Why don't we campaign for those to be allowed on at the same time.

It's essentially the same thing

That is why I'm against spedelecs being given the same rights as bicycles .

Bicycles (assist limited to 15mph no on demand throttle )

Spedelecs. (Above 15mph assist or throttle but must have functioning pedal drive system) insurance , training etc - allowed where mopeds are or your local e bike park.

Motorbike - no need for pedals . Motorbike rules

It's logical to anyone whos logically though about it and doesn't just want to go faster.

No one's banning anything just giving the option to select the correct tool and giving it the appropriate place to be used


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:42 am
 colp
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Is that legal?

I assume so. It’s a standard feature. I recall someone mentioned using it in another thread to transport an injured walker off a hill.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:43 am
 sbob
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I was under the impression that if it could be propelled without pedalling then it would need registering and taxing et cetera.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:50 am
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“I was under the impression that if it could be propelled without pedalling then it would need registering and taxing et cetera.”

It’s probably treated as an electric wheelchair legally when being used in that way.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:52 am
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Under 4mph isn't classed as motorised. It's how mobility scooters are allowed to use pedestrian zones.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 9:53 am
 colp
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That’s all very well but what happens when people start derestricting them and get everyone banned from pedestrian zones.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 10:00 am
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trail_rat +1

Maintain the differences and distinctions between the types.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 10:05 am
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It's all a bit whatiffery around here .

I'm just applying existing laws to vehicles of similar speeds under motorised power.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 10:09 am
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Or did you mean derestricted mobility scooters .

I reckon there would be a good race series In that like lawnmower racing ...

Private land only of course 😉


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 10:10 am
 sbob
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That’s all very well but what happens when people start derestricting them and get everyone banned from pedestrian zones.

I've shopped for electric wheelchairs and not once was I offered derestriction.

Can't say the same for electric mopeds.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 10:28 am
 geex
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No one posting here with an Emtb actually said anything about wanting their assist cut off limit anywhere near 29mph. Most folk who've chipped theirs I've spoken to have said if the assist limit was 20mph as it is in other countries (eg. US/Straya) they wouldn't have derestricted theirs. 20mph would be fine and a huge improvement over the daft 15mph UK bikes are limitted to.

There are already firm definitions/distinctions between the different types of Ebike

  • Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph. ((15 in the UK)
  • Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
  • Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.

All classes limit the motor’s power to 1 horsepower (750W).

The real reason any cyclist argues for different laws/legislation/access rights for class 1 Emtbs to their bicycle is snobbery. Nothing more.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 10:34 am
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"The real reason any cyclist argues for different laws/legislation/access rights for class 1 Emtbs to their bicycle is snobbery. Nothing more."

Despite the fact I own an ebike and have no qualms about the 15mph speed limit I'm a snob. Good work


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 10:56 am
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This 'walk mode' is the most attractive feature so far!

In terms of evolution, I'm waiting for full 'hover mode' to help with hike-a-biking.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 11:02 am
 geex
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I didn't say it made sense. Snobbery rarely does.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 11:29 am
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20mph would be fine and a huge improvement over the daft 15mph UK bikes are limitted to.

I will bite. Why is it daft? It keeps it to a level that a reasonably fit rider would be able to reach whereas 20 is pushing it just a tad.

If you look at the recommended speeds for cycle paths it also fits nicely there.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 11:36 am
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so which part of my post is snobery ?

my bike will quite easily do more than 15mph if i derestrict it ( which i have on the private farm track) - it will do 40kph+ if i let it (by way of software deregulation)

how ever my civic responsibility to not being irresponsible on shared use paths that i want to use it on means i keep it restricted

if heaven forbid there was an accident ( thats why we call em accidents they happen when you least expect it) and even more forbid i was in the wrong.

im not A. riding an illigal bike b. Speed differential is low and risk of serious injury to either party is reduced  and c riding a gate way to all cyclists being banned from those paths.

at the risk of bringing facts which dont fit your mantra  to the table

"pedestrians have been shown
to have a 90% chance of survival when struck
by a car travelling at 30 km/h or below, but
less than 50% chance of surviving an impact
at 45 km/h. Pedestrians have almost no"

30kph being below 20mph


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 11:38 am
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how ever my civic responsibility to not being irresponsible on shared use paths that i want to use it on means i keep it restricted

Although there isnt a set in stone value the suggested speeds seem to be if you go higher than 12-18mph (depending on the path type) then you should be on the road instead.

Of course cyclists can go faster without assistance but it takes a tad more effort and harder to sustain.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 11:44 am
 colp
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at the risk of bringing facts which dont fit your mantra  to the table

“pedestrians have been shown
to have a 90% chance of survival when struck
by a car travelling at 30 km/h or below, but
less than 50% chance of surviving an impact
at 45 km/h

To be fair, those facts don’t really fit an ebike discussion either.

Have you got any stats on pedestrians being hit by supertankers?


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 11:52 am
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has your bike got an impact crush zone and a pedestrian friendly frontal zone. or has it got a hard thin bar  just at organ level ?

its more relevent than any data you have presented. other than waaaaah i want to go faster  but im not allowed and whataboutery I've seen nothing.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 11:56 am
 geex
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Your civic responsibility has nothing to do with what your motor is restricted to. It has to do with how you use it. Same as your vehicle, or do you stop at every 30mph sign, pop the bonnet and adjust the throttle cable to drive through?

Your snobbery isn't any one comment. it's your entire attitude.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 11:59 am
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very good , lets see how that plays out.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 12:03 pm
 colp
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has your bike got an impact crush zone and a pedestrian friendly frontal zone

Only all the massive body flab I carry through being a lazy ebiker


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 12:07 pm
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Perhaps the speed restrictions should be based on rider weight. Overweight ebikers are clearly a greater danger to pedestrians.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 12:12 pm
 geex
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If I wanted the assist to cut out at higher speeds than 15mph on my Ebike I would derestrict it.
If I just wanted to go faster than normal mtbs I'd take my roadbike out on the road.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 12:12 pm
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In which case why do you want faster assist on an ebike? Not sure you have made a case for it other than faster better.

answer

Mick.

to help accelerate the 47lb bike on flatter gradients when it reaches normal bike sprinting speeds

FFS!

Wasn't this you saying why you wanted a higher cut out speed....


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 12:15 pm
 colp
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has your bike got an impact crush zone and a pedestrian friendly frontal zone. or has it got a hard thin bar  just at organ level ?

its more relevent than any data you have presented. other than waaaaah i want to go faster  but im not allowed and whataboutery I’ve seen nothing.

So it’s not about combined rider/driver and vehicle weight? It’s about bars and things at the front?

I’m assuming these gravel bikes I hear about have bars, and from what I can gather they’re a bit like racers with slightly off-road tyres?

Surely you’d be averaging over 15 mph on one of them on a gravel track?


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 12:20 pm
 geex
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Yes Mick.

Been promoted to inspector?

I don't do drugs. Honest.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 12:27 pm
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