My eldest will be a teenager in a couple of months, he has a great group of friends which has expanded since going to secondary school. He spends a healthy amount of time out with his mates which I think is great.
I've caught him a couple of times now leaving the house with his bike and no helmet, we just had a "debate" on the merits of looking cool (or rather not looking like a dork) versus not spilling your brains on the pavement. He left with helmet on and bottom lip firmly rolled out.
Very few of his mates wear a helmet now, and I'm under no illusions that once round the corner he's probably taken it off, and possibly even hidden it for retrieval on the way home, but this is one of the few things where I feel the need to stand my ground. We get on well with all of the parents so I could use the somewhat nuclear option and raise the subject with them, but I don't want my boy to be seen as responsible for them all looking like dorks 😀
Those of you who have been through this, what did you do? And would you do anything differently?
Cooler looking helmet, one of those "commuter" ones that looks like a slightly vented pisspot with a solid visor?
Or just pick your battles, if he's just riding to school, mates houses etc is there really a significant risk?
What are they doing on their bikes? Generally speaking, riding a bike isn't that dangerous, and asking a teenager to do as you say whilst out of sight of your watchful eye is fanciful.
Horses and water and that.
Interesting language. Twice you said looking like a dork. Perhaps your thinking is rubbing off on him?
I have three kids. My two youngest (13 & 15) actually go riding, they go out to be on bikes rather than just a means of transport, they both wear helmets and have never even questioned it. I don't think they have ever actually ridden a bike without a helmet on. My 17 year old is a bit more sedentary but uses her bike for paper round and, very occasionally, to meet friends. She doesn't wear a helmet on her paper round and whilst I would prefer she did, I don't make a deal out of it. I would rather she ride with no helmet than not ride at all.
Cooler looking helmet, one of those “commuter” ones that looks like a slightly vented pisspot with a solid visor?
What are they doing on their bikes? Generally speaking, riding a bike isn’t that dangerous, and asking a teenager to do as you say whilst out of sight of your watchful eye is fanciful.
Aye, if you're worried about that you're head is going to explode when someone hands him a split or the first couple are caught shagging in the park. As ever at teenage years, the decisions that they make have life changing consequences - and not all of them have an immediate 'feedback loop' that smacking your head on a pavement does. 🙁
I personally think the balance needs to be struck between anticipated danger and protection level.
Personally I go from bare head and flip flops (a mile to a pub), to full face helmet, D30 knee pads, back protector (lift/van served downhill trails).
I know at least one "helmet everywhere" person, who has ridden BPW in that same open helmet, and no kneepads. Both they and I have not suffered an injury through our choices, but who is the bigger risk?
Picking the practical solution relative to the risks is better than applying a blanket rule with no context.
For example, as the evenings draw in, I'd choose a decent rear light over a helmet, incase he finsd himself returning home in gloomy dusk.
I'm very lucky, my lad and all his mates are proper cyclists, not just riding a bike to get somewhere, so every single ride the helmet goes on, no debate, it's just what he does...
I hope to not have to enforce it though
Interesting language. Twice you said looking like a dork. Perhaps your thinking is rubbing off on him?
Nope, this is me interpreting his thinking. I always wear a helmet, and up until recently neither of my kids have ever considered getting on a bike without a helmet. It's always been second nature to them.
Cooler looking helmet, one of those “commuter” ones that looks like a slightly vented pisspot with a solid visor?
I don't think any helmet would be cool enough unfortunately.
Or just pick your battles, if he’s just riding to school, mates houses etc is there really a significant risk?
This is where I am at the moment, but I need to convince his mum too.
What are they doing on their bikes? Generally speaking, riding a bike isn’t that dangerous, and asking a teenager to do as you say whilst out of sight of your watchful eye is fanciful.
Mostly just riding to meet up at the park etc. Totally understand the fanciful part, I'd like him to choose to wear a helmet and up until recently he would have. I absolutely do not want to force him to do anything because (a) it's a waste of time and (b) it would damage a good relationship.
He's a sensible boy and my first instinct is always to trust him. I've no doubt if he decided to go and ride the local trails he'd be the first to put a helmet on. I completely understand the need to fit in, but not wearing a helmet is alien to me so I'm somewhat conflicted.
This thread needs:
Picking the practical solution relative to the risks is better than applying a blanket rule with no context.
For example, as the evenings draw in, I’d choose a decent rear light over a helmet, incase he finsd himself returning home in gloomy dusk.
This is sensible. I would be the person at BPW feeling safe and secure in my 15 year old open face helmet.
4 weeks into concussion and it's associated issues tells me that if I'd not worn a helmet on an inocuous path when my bars clipped a fence and I was knocked unconscious for a couple of minutes that I'd be in a much worse position than I am now, stop being a a teenage dick and wear a helmet!
Picking the practical solution relative to the risks is better than applying a blanket rule with no context.
For example, as the evenings draw in, I’d choose a decent rear light over a helmet, incase he finsd himself returning home in gloomy dusk.
+1
The probability of having an accident where a helmet would make a difference is very, very, small.
I had the same with both of mine, still do with the boy, girl is 18 and doesn't ride a bike, I just have a car to worry about.
When they used to ride off road they would pop the helmet on without question, the boy used to actively love wearing a full face. This all changed when they went out to meet friends on a bike and all of a sudden wearing a helmet was uncool (according to them). I would see them ride off with the helmet on but catch them arriving back with it hanging off the bars. I banned him from using my bike for a while and I think that helped a little bit as he grabs the helmet without asking now but still not 100% sure it stays on his noggin.
Been a strict "no helmet no ride" rule since mine were little, and never had an issue - that said, they don’t have cycling mates so never had the peer pressure.
Mine have also seen me in minor injuries with a damaged helmet and having concussion checks.
Part of them growing up is them taking responsibility for their own actions. I expect mine to wear a helmet, I wouldn't stop them riding if they didn't.
Steve_b77
Yea, the local school run seems to go past the end of my street, of a fairly large sample I'd say it's 1/3 each pisspots, XC helmet looped onto the bars, no helmet at all.
But then remembering being a teenager, peer pressure is a weird thing. I got singled out for wearing a v-neck jumper under my blazer as I had a long wait for the bus in the morning in the arse end of nowhere. Few years later some cool kid must have started wearing them and all of a sudden everyone was 🤷♂️
So based on that you options are, give up, or buy him cigarettes' so he becomes cool so they all wear their helmets.
My youngest rides to the skate park without a helmet.
Helmet is in his backpack in case he wants to try a new stunt....
Mind you, I don't wear a helmet when bopping around either.
The probability of having an accident where a helmet would make a difference is very, very, small.
It is a small probablility, but if sh1t happens it's worth having one. I got hit by a car while riding through the village high street, and fortunaetly i had helmet on - don't like to think what would have happened if I hadnt. It was a low probability when i left home, but a probability of 1 when i was lying dazed in the middle of the road. You just can't predict when it's gonna be your turn.
I never wear a helmet when I go to work or the shops or basically any biking that isn't mountain biking. I don't particularly push the helmet on my kids but both insist they won't leave the house without them. So maybe you could try not wearing your helmet?
You have to ask yourself why it's so important to you that the wears a helmet when he is on the bike but not when he is in the car, walking, etc.
Ultimately, keep pushing the helmet if you want but you have to accept that if you keep making him use a helmet for this one not particularly dangerous activity and no others then eventually he might decide it's just not worth the bother anymore.
The problem with teenagers is they are not very good are appreciating when the risk goes from low to moderate to high. See also drug taking. I used to run a boarding house of 110 17-18 year olds. Like all 17 year olds they liked a drink. I did! But the school rules were no unsupervised booze - they could have it at events in moderation but not in their rooms at 1am....when they wanted it. Being 'the enforcer' of said rule posed a challenge. You could go at it with zero tolerance and just be at war constantly, a war I would always lose. Or, you could make a bit of a song and dance about it being the rule but go out of your way not deliberately catch them out. When a kid got completely shedded you landed like a ton of bricks on them, but the rest of the time they knew that I knew there was a bit of light drinking but no one spoke about it. They became very good at moderating and being respectful enough to make sure I didn't stumble over it. We all rubbed along just fine and they learnt in a perverse kind of way how to drink responsibly!
Apply the same to teenagers with helmets - if you say crack on (no pun intended) he'll do just that and probably not bother when doing something genuinely sketchy too - you gave him the green light and his own risk taking instincts are not sophisticated enough yet to get beyond that simple OK. If you say helmet without fail and drive around trying to catch him not wearing it, he'll just hate you and go out of his way to be a knob about it. If you let him 'win' by taking it off when he's out of sight he'll know he's getting it wrong and there is more of a chance of him getting it right and doing the right thing if he does ride somewhere sketchy. He'll know in his heart of heart you are probably right about wearing the thing, and that will be sitting on his shoulder. If you become of a figure of hate on the subject he may well do the wrong thing just to spite you.
Ain't teenage mind games fun!
Given the extremely low level of danger involved in bike riding, I wouldn't worry about it.
He's much more likely to kill himself, and especially others, when he starts driving.
Your're grounded until you get the point!! Or no bike, try walking!!
Harsh but works for our youngest who does exactly the same thing you describe with his mates but out on 'proper' trails ues helmet almost religiously.
We even keep the injury photos of my big OTB at Glentress a few years ago handy as a reminder.
Shame the two uses have a huge disconnect.
Its a common theme with teenagers having memory span of a goldfish!!!
Good feedback and perspectives thanks folks, keep it coming. I’ve told him a couple of times to wear his helmet or walk, but I don’t want to do that (m)any more times.
As I said, he’s a sensible lad so perhaps I’ll try and get a discussion going over dinner tonight - share perspectives and concerns and ultimately let him decide. I don’t really want him to have to feel like anyone has won or lost so would rather avoid putting him a situation where he takes it off round the corner (which he almost certainly does).
He’s a sensible boy and my first instinct is always to trust him.
Do that then. If either of my two came mountain biking with me, we wore helmets, if just cycling to their mates, then not so much. There's literally a hundred ways they can get into mischief while out of your sight (sorry!) They won't be wearing helmets while they do it.
He’s much more likely to kill himself, and especially others, when he starts driving.
And I bet the OP won't be nagging him to wear a helmet when driving such is people's a) inability to calculate risk and b) make assumptions that cycling helmets are actually any good (versus say a motorbike helmet that actually works)
There’s literally a hundred ways they can get into mischief while out of your sight (sorry!)
One of the worst things about getting "old" is that people assume you were never young 😀
It is a small probablility, but if sh1t happens it’s worth having one.
Do you worry about never leaving the house without taking an earth grounding strap in case of a lightning strike?
It's all very well replying that's silly as the odds are a million to one, but once lightning has struck, the probability is 1.....
Or full body armour in case someone tries to shoot / stab you.
Or a scuba tank in case you fall into a canal?
There’s literally a hundred ways they can get into mischief while out of your sight (sorry!)
One of the worst things about getting “old” is that people assume you were never young 😀
One of the worst things about getting old is forgetting the ridiculous things you did when you were young. 😀
Let him choose.
My kid rode to school/college every single day of term for 7 years and never wore a helmet. Nothing happened... He did get a puncture once and I had to rescue him cos the IDIOT didn't know how to fix one! 😆
Whenever he goes MTBing he always wears a helmet - and definitely has put it to good use a couple of times!
But yeah, I've never told him what he should or shouldn't do in that regard. Last time we went to BPW he decided he wanted knee pads too. I've never worn them.
Or a scuba tank in case you fall into a canal?
My 15 yr old daughter asked if she could cycle to meet a couple of friends in Mumbles, a couple of weeks ago. No probs, I said, just stay safe on the roads and don't leave your bikes unlocked, etc. She is sensible, so are her friends, and it's mainly cycle path to get there.
A few days later, I heard about a large gathering of kids at Rotherslade, just around the coast, where they'd been jumping into the sea off the cliffs. Guess where my daughter had been heading?
where were they jumping from? asking for a friend...
You could get him to watch "The Crash Reel" which might show the risks of serious head injury on a young person.
Don't forget, youngsters believe they're invulnerable to most danger (we've all been there) and it's not about being so rigid that they resent you or the rule, but it's for them to begin to see what the longer term consequences might be.
where were they jumping from? asking for a friend…
Nightmares, Nightmares 2, Mulch, Donkey's Rock, Showers are the ancient names for them, I've been told by an equally ancient colleague just now. Apparently they are to the left as you walk down into the bay.
TBH I don't make my kids (11&14) wear helmets for just general bimbling around or riding to school. when we go out mtbing or proper road riding though it's always helmets on, and they never moan about it.
My lad wears a helmet at the skate park if he goes there aswell.
Give up, you will either force them to wear one while you watch, or put them off riding a bike.
It’s all very well replying that’s silly as the odds are a million to one, but once lightning has struck, the probability is 1…..
Come on - let's talk about real risk profiles - I'm not going to go out if i can help it in a thunder storm, and if I'm caught out I'll find a safer place for shelter.
We're talking about small but appreciable risk - the number of times people on here talk about close passes riding on the road - that is clear and present risk - so I'm wearing a helmet. That doesn't mean I'm a fun sponge.
Presume you don't wear a seat belt cos the risk of a collision is so small?
Presume you don’t wear a seat belt cos the risk of a collision is so small?
No I don't wear a seatbelt, cos I is an outlaw, baby
"I’m very lucky, my lad and all his mates are proper cyclists, not just riding a bike to get somewhere"
You wot?
Had a proper lol at that little gem
It's his head, let him do what he wants with it.
Golden years of BMX were kids in 80s doing daft things on the streets.
No crash helmets. Lots of concrete. Lots of people falling off.
Nobody died.
I don’t think helmets existed back in the 80s (those were different times). Saying that I have hit my head a lot over the years.
I don’t think I’d have (or did) listened to my parents when I was in my teens when it came to safety and common sense.
kids wear helmets when ever they are on the bikes. no helmet no ride.
IHNRAT
My 14 yr old daughter rides canal tow path / cycle paths / etc with no helmet. I figure actually going out the house and exercising is more important than reducing the very small risk. She would not hesitate to put a lid on for MTB or riding in traffic.
Most of her friends don’t even have bikes that fit them / work any more so happy to encourage this. She is using the bike as transport rather than sport without a helmet on. So far she’s not had any offs when not wearing a helmet. She’s hurt her self in various other ways when nowhere near a bike.
It’s his head, let him do what he wants with it.
All well and good until the parents have to clean his arse and feed him through a straw due to a poor risk assessment decision.
Having said that teaching risk assessment would be the way to go.
Riding to school, meeting mates in the park not much need for PPE.
Hoppity-gubbins, racing said mates and off-road with a risk of rock/tree skull interaction most definitely needed. You can drive this home with a "we'll be turning the machine off and donating your organs without a second thought if you get it wrong". Remember they can be severely lacking in empathy in the teenage years be as off-hand as they are.
Having said that teaching risk assessment would be the way to go.
So you insist on wearing a crash helmet whenever you drive a car?
I've put my own views further up but....
It’s his head, let him do what he wants with it.
...just because it's interesting to see how far that conviction goes.....not sure if you have kids or not but if you did/do would you be happy to ride with your 12yr old on a road or off road where you deemed it wise to have a lid on, with them riding next to you lidless because....."it's their head to do with what they want"? If they came home with a syringe at the ready, you'd be cool with that as it's their arm to do with what they want? Where's you limit to step in as a parent?
So you insist on wearing a crash helmet whenever you drive a car?
We're not wanting drivers to feel any safer are we now? I'd rather we went down the spike sticking out of the steering wheel approach.
We’re not wanting drivers to feel any safer are we now? I’d rather we went down the spike sticking out of the steering wheel approach.
If a parent doesn't wear a crash helmet to drive then they have no place lecturing their kids on bike safety. All of the same daft and reductive arguments apply.
If a parent doesn’t wear a crash helmet to drive then they have no place lecturing their kids on bike safety. All of the same daft and reductive arguments apply.
You might have to point me to the statistic that says a car journey is per mile or per journey as likely to end up with a head injury to the person in a car as a the equivalent cycle rider. A seat belt would be a better counterpoint. Yes, I know seatbelts are a legal requirement but they are providing an injury prevention in a similar way to the helmet is to the cyclist. I'd agree that a parent who elects not to wear a seatbelt has no place lecturing a minor on risk avoidance. Or smokes and lectures their kid not to.
And my first point?
And my first point?
"The commonest mechanisms of injury were falls in the elderly and road traffic collisions in the young, which were more likely to present in coma."
Source: National Library of Medicine
is that meant to be relevant? ....because it just look like you googled a word or two and pasted the first thing that dribbled out.
My First point was....
…just because it’s interesting to see how far that conviction goes…..not sure if you have kids or not but if you did/do would you be happy to ride with your 12yr old on a road or off road where you deemed it wise to have a lid on, with them riding next to you lidless because…..”it’s their head to do with what they want”? If they came home with a syringe at the ready, you’d be cool with that as it’s their arm to do with what they want? Where’s you limit to step in as a parent?
is that meant to be relevant?
I’ve put my own views further up
And they’re appreciated. We had a good, balanced, discussion about it at dinner tonight, as a family. Interesting perspectives shared and healthy debate. Still more to discuss but we’ve told him we trust him to make his own decisions, as long he tries to base those decisions on perceived risk rather than worrying what people might think.
We also talked at length about risk assessment, and shared some examples of lucky escapes from the extensive back catalogue of me and my mates.
If a parent doesn’t wear a crash helmet
Oh yeah, my 83 year old mum rides a bike everywhere. She doesn't even own a helmet.
Life is such a risky business!
Life is such a risky business!
Indeed, she’s obviously played fast and loose with her own safety over the years. 😂
Might it be time for that risk assessment chat?
My eldest is lucky enough to go on team rides with the current Canadian f-u19 XCO champ and she had a superb take on the boys attitude to taking helmets off to climb on a hot day.
She pulled her helmet off and said, "wow we look cool, when do we get those awesome concussions?"
Boys popped them straight back on as she'd crushed the perception that it's cool to ride without.
Just takes one leader either way.
Which is all fine if you're actually mountain biking or road riding. But just riding to the shop, or riding to the local park for a kick about. Does that really require a helmet?
I know I don't wear a helmet just to ride to the shop, so I'm not going to make my kids.
When I was a teenager, I came off my bike during school lunch break and managed to concuss myself somehow. I 'woke up' stood in the queue at the chippy, with no knowledge of any of the events of that day (including how I got there). Very odd experience.
My parents always insisted I wore a helmet but, being a teenager, I knew best so of course wasn't wearing one.
I'm not sure what the moral of this story is, other than he'll probably do what he wants and, if he comes off and bangs his noggin, learn the hard way...
My eldest is lucky enough to go on team rides with the current Canadian f-u19 XCO champ and she had a superb take on the boys attitude to taking helmets off to climb on a hot day.
She pulled her helmet off and said, “wow we look cool, when do we get those awesome concussions?”
Boys popped them straight back on as she’d crushed the perception that it’s cool to ride without.
Just takes one leader either way.
My take on that is that you have to take a holistic view. A helmet isn't a magic talisman that automatically makes you safe. You have to balance increasing the likelihood of crashing vs mitigating the damage if you do crash.
If I'm doing downhill, I always wear a full face helmet but whether I wear body armour or not depends on the temperature. Yes, it might help in a crash but it is also going to make it more likely that I crash if I'm overheating. 9 times out of 10 I'm going to take the option that makes it less likely that I'm going to crash.
Fair play to your U-19 XCO champ but she doesn't have the same physiology as the rest of the people in the group. Some of those kids might have been better off keeping their helmets off for the climbs (without knowing anything about the people, the climb, and the temperature it's impossible to make a judgement) so I think pressuring other people into adopting your risk assessment is not the way to go.
I know that someone is now going to tell the story about the time they were on the easiest climb ever but still managed to fall off a cliff and would have certainly been dead if they haven't been wearing their helmet but we're talking about likelihoods here, not edge cases.
If it's a hot day and I can stay cooler (temperature, not style) by leaving my helmet off for the climb then I'll do that. There's no point in being super safe on the climb if I'm just going to crash on the downhill because I've overheated.
And they’re appreciated. We had a good, balanced, discussion about it at dinner tonight, as a family. Interesting perspectives shared and healthy debate. Still more to discuss but we’ve told him we trust him to make his own decisions, as long he tries to base those decisions on perceived risk rather than worrying what people might think.
We also talked at length about risk assessment, and shared some examples of lucky escapes from the extensive back catalogue of me and my mates.
Sounds like the best way of going about it.
If nothing else he'll get so sick of talking about risk assessments he'll just start wearing the helmet all the time to avoid having to do any more probability/severity matrices 😉
In my experience those rides to the shops would be more likely to result in hitting the ground more than my rides off road.
As a kid I had a car pull right out in front of me from a side road and I rolled over the bonnet and landed the other side and as an adult I had a car pull out into the side of me from a junction hitting my back wheel and I went over bars and broke my finger when putting my arms out. (no helmet, no head injuries though)
All of my off road falls these days are far less dangerous and most are just loss of balance when maneuvering too slowly on fixed gear and all my falls (BMX) in teens never ended in anything either.
So my assessment in 50 years of riding would be watch out on the way to the shops.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/cycle-helmets
A good summary of the evidence including a link to the fact that helmets in cars would save more head injuries
As ever the protective effects of magic plastic hats are so minimal and the risks so low along with such high health benefits from cycling that across populations there would be less deaths if we stopped obsessing about helmets
Evidence based practice follow the data
If nothing else he’ll get so sick of talking about risk assessments he’ll just start wearing the helmet all the time to avoid having to do any more probability/severity matrices 😉
Well, obviously we didn’t use “risk assessment” type language but you already knew that 😊
In my experience those rides to the shops would be more likely to result in hitting the ground more than my rides off road.
Good point, and one we raised - you don’t have to be doing anything wrong to get hurt. A friend who my kids know well broke his neck when a van pulled out on him while commuting to work. He hit the van head first, split helmet, very lucky to get away with 18 months rehab. That kind of story brings it home quite well without resorting to tales of horror and death.
So you insist on wearing a crash helmet whenever you drive a car?
No, as it's not really relevant to my discussion point and we're talking about cycling not driving. One can have different assessments for different activities, it's not a blanket thing. (Something a some H&S advisors have difficulty with too).
Some of the population don't see the need to be going everywhere at high speed or insist on "muh rights" when there's a 50/50 driving or riding decision. They will travel with due regard for their surroundings and consider everyone around them an idiot who wants to kill them if there's a no risk chance.
Now for the personal approach. I don't wear polystyrene when road commuting. I have demonstrated to me that for me the risk is lower without one. Off-road a hat is worn every time to prevent high level skull scenery interactions. I've also spent a fortune on said hat as I only have one brain and it's quite valuable to me.
Might it be time for that risk assessment chat?
The main risk is that it will mess up her hair.
No, as it’s not really relevant to my discussion point and we’re talking about cycling not driving. One can have different assessments for different activities,
But drlving carries a greater risk of head injury than cycling. If you deem a magic plastic hat essential for cycling then why not for driving?
Yes, I know seatbelts are a legal requirement but they are providing an injury prevention in a similar way to the helmet is to the cyclist.
Except seatbelts actually work.
At least they've got hair at that age to add a bit of cushioning unlike my increasinly bald head. LOL.
FWIW, I think a helmet does very little to keep you safe on the roads especially anything involving vehicles. Even some of the actual helmet manufacturers say this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/07/10/bicycle-helmets-not-designed-for-impacts-from-cars-stresses-leading-maker-giro/?sh=e2ee569cbd45
I feel almost like the odd one out in that my 12 year old instinctively grabs his helmet off the shelf when nipping around to his mates. Don't even have to mention it to him. Riding, even if its just to the shops, with a helmet on is as natural in this house as putting your pants on before your jeans (that said, the 9 year old is known to run around with pants on his head sometimes but still always wears a helmet too when on his bike).
Could it be down to location too? I live in York which is VERY "bikey". Most people you see out and about on bikes have a helmet on whether its an old girl on a shopper heading to Tesco or a group of yoots razzing around.
I live in York which is VERY “bikey”. Most people you see out and about on bikes have a helmet on whether its an old girl on a shopper heading to Tesco or a group of yoots razzing around.
I used to live in Cambridge which is also very bikey. The complete opposite. Footflaps is still there, perhaps he could give us a rough percentage?
Interesting discussion. I grew up in the 80s and didn’t wear a helmet until my mid 20s when I got my first mtb, despite owning a road bike all through uni etc.
I had at least one night in hospital falling off my bike knocked unconscious as a teenager, and another one being knocked over as a pedestrian as I stepped backwards off a kerb without looking just as my mate was screeching to a halt in his car. It shit him up when my head went through the windscreen.
My kids are adults now and neither of them complained about helmet wearing- perhaps seeing and hearing about my crashes increased their perception of the risk.
2 of my kids’ peers from school have had life changing head injuries falling out of windows/off a tall building whilst presumably drunk in their late teens. The risks kids encounter are often due to their behaviour and as a parent you can influence that but I think you stand more chance of doing so if you allow them to make decisions for them selves appropriately and don’t try to reduce all risk to zero. They have to learn from their mistakes.
Could it be down to location too? I live in York which is VERY “bikey”. Most people you see out and about on bikes have a helmet on whether its an old girl on a shopper heading to Tesco or a group of yoots razzing around.
Depends what you mean by bikey. Amsterdam and Denmark are what I would describe as very bikey but given the fact that a very small percentage of the people you see on bikes are self-described 'bike enthusiasts' maybe they are just the wrong type of bikey.
I used to live in Cambridge which is also very bikey. The complete opposite.
Brighton is "very bikey" too - most of em ride around with no helmets, all in black, no lights (at night).
Their mummies and daddies must be going spare
Amsterdam and Denmark are what I would describe as very bikey
Lot more off-road cycle lanes and a lower level of car bellend-ery though?
Lot more off-road cycle lanes and a lower level of car bellend-ery though?
Yeah, but the idea that a helmet is going to do you any good in a crash involving a car is more hope than anything backed up by data (or the design specs of the helmets themselves).
I realise I am going to sound like a complete moron when I change my mind as my son gets further into teenagerhood but it seems a bit like some here would be best trying to build a bit or resilience to peer pressure into their kids.
it seems a bit like some here would be best trying to build a bit or resilience to peer pressure into their kids.
Isn't a lot of that influenced by how their parents are? Must say, my son's resilience to peer pressure has fluctuated throughout his growing up time. He's now pretty much his own man. But I can see a lot of my influence in there (good & bad!)
I realise I am going to sound like a complete moron when I change my mind as my son gets further into teenagerhood but it seems a bit like some here would be best trying to build a bit or resilience to peer pressure into their kids.
Yes, caving to peer pressure is never a good thing.
some here would be best trying to build a bit or resilience to peer pressure into their kids.
Easier said than done IME. I started this thread because my eldest was feeling peer pressure, up until yesterday he’s been completely immune to it. Turns out that it was all in his own head anyway - he was off to meet up with some school mates, first time he’s met up with them outside of school, none of them wear helmets and he was worried what they’d say when he turned up in his. Turns out they didn’t bat an eyelid, added bonus that they told him his bike was really cool so he now wants to ride it more. Happy days.
Yeah, but the idea that a helmet is going to do you any good in a crash involving a car is more hope than anything backed up by data (or the design specs of the helmets themselves).
I get it, I really do - but then I don't!
It's such a shame we can't sometimes run life twice and see how the outcome changes. Lids may not be designed and specced to take high speed crashes, but it's a leap to say they won't do you any good in such a scenario. Is it designed for you to walk away with zero consequence - no. Could it mitigate the consequence - quite possibly. i.e. it would not meet that standard but that does not mean it will no have an influence.
I have a friend who bullseyed a windscreen (busy urban road, he was in a bike lane filtering past stopped traffic at road cycling pace. Driver coming the other way turned right into a junction directly in front of him). Ambulance arrived (complete with camera crew doing one of the those accident 999 documentary bobbins- he was on the telly and everything) and off he was carted to hospital. Helmet in bits from a head first full impact with the windscreen but he walked out of hospital that night, his brains (such as they as) no less scrambled than they were before. Now, as entertaining as it would be to lob the buffoon at the car again, this time without his helmet - I'm thinking he might not let me do it. Energy exploded that lid - energy that would have otherwise be in addition to the rest of the energy that impacted his body - because physics. Put yourself in his position 0.1sec before impact...imagine you could stop time and either add or remove a helmet before you hit. Would you be taking it off because "they don't do you any good"?
Bike helmets are not great - they are a massive compromise product, and then there is the whole increased risk phenomena too, but let's not overplay the hand - to say they are not going to do you any good in a crash is just a bit daft.
but it’s a leap to say they won’t do you any good in such a scenario.
I didn't say they wouldn't do any good. I said the idea that they will do any good is more of a hope than something you can back up with data.
Since we're doing anecdotes now, here's mine. I was out drinking with a group of friends. While we were crossing a road one of my friends decides he wants a piggy back. Jumps on his mate's back. Said mate loses his balance and stumbles forwards. He manages to avoid falling immediately but he does this by stepping forward. Given the extra weight he can't get his balance so has to step forward again and again and again until he's running at a fair pelt.
At this point he can't run any faster and he tumbles forward, his friend still on his back. The guy who fancied a piggy back ended up going straight into the edge of a kerb with his forehead. Absolutely sickening thud.
Gets up, rubs his head, continues to the bar, and continues to get shit faced.
Had he been wearing a helmet (as we all should when we go out drinking) I can absolutely guarantee he would be singing the praises of his destroyed helmet and waxing lyrical about how it saved his life.
The point is, you're right. Until we start making all these people recreate their crashes we are going to continue to be bombarded with stories about how the helmet saved their life so I say, if you're going to claim a helmet saved your life, from now on you're going to have to prove it!