Talk to me about Reach

Are you saying you think modern bikes have less reach than their previous incarnations? That sounds contrary to pretty much everything i've been led to believe.

That's what it seems like when I compare them.

Are you just comparing ‘Small’ frames? If you pick comparable reach numbers, what does that do to all the others?

And which whippet are you talking about - the old one (circa 2012) or the newer one (circa 2020)? I don't think they did a 'small' of the old one - just a 16",182&20" frame.

Are you just comparing ‘Small’ frames? If you pick comparable reach numbers, what does that do to all the others?

If I pick a size with a compatible reach, the seat tube is much longer. Too long for me.

And which whippet are you talking about

The current one. It has longer reach than an Epic Evo and Scott Spark RC. Seems odd.

I feel your pain. I'm guessing the "long" they keep harping on about refers to wheelbase. Every modern geometry bike I have to ride feels like i'm about to bang my knees on the bars, unless it's 2 sizes up from the recommended (and don't get me started on the low and slack bit, absolutely hateful things).

Whippet has a reach of 445/425/412 in Large/Med/Small

Epic is 460/436/406

Epic is mostly longer, seems to just have bigger gaps in sizes, and a bigger jump from medium to small than from Large to Medium

I feel kinda stuck because seat tubes are benerally longer on newer bikes. I can't have a seat tube longer than 405mm.

Yes you can, fit shorter cranks.

Do you mean reach, top tube length, or the distance from saddle to handlebars?

Just checking because these established geometry definitions do get misused or misunderstood sometimes.

Just came to ask the same as the00

I mean reach. The distance from the saddle to the bars is important too bit know that is affected by lots of things like seat tube angle, stack etc. Though most newer bikes have a steeper seat tube so combined with shorter reach, I'll feel too cramped.

Just looked at Santa Cruz Blur and thought the Blur and Blur TR used the same frame, yet the Blur TR has shorter reach.

thought the Blur and Blur TR used the same frame, yet the Blur TR has shorter reach

Longer fork means shorter reach on the same frame

You need to get out the tape measure as stems are shorter these day's on MTB's.

You need to get out the tape measure as stems are shorter these day’s on MTB’s.

Mine are 40, 50 and 60mm

If you’re looking at a downcountey sort of thing the transition Spur in medium has a 410mm seat tube and 455mm reach. Depending on what dropper you have now, the Oneup v2 fits more drop into a given space than most other droppers by having a lower profile saddle clamp and small top threaded collars

There must be some other brands out there with short seat tubes - I know Bird do but the Aether 9 / 9c are probably more trail than down country.

Bird seconded, but no XC bikes. Medium is the smallest size in 29er (like many brands), the seat tube is 395mm.

Pay £5 for a month of the search by numbers feature on https://geometrygeeks.bike/ - would help you find some options.

I have a Bird Zero TR which fits well in a small. I do really like their bikes so hope one day they make an xc/downcountry bike that's not heavy.

Things are getting trickier these days, steeper seat tube angles causing another conundrum, there's so many things to consider, stack is something to factor in, fork length, headtube length and angle can make a big difference, if the seattube is too long there's a few things to help as already mentioned, a more slamable dropper, shorter cranks, a saddle like Nukeproof's enduro one can drop you 8mm lower if the shape is suitable/comfortable for you. Comparing geometry specs isn't always a guarantee, nothing beats actually sitting on the bike your after. I'm never 100% happy with what I'm riding, there's always some tiny niggle.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing... Your Whippet isn't that old, so quite in the middle of reach numbers. There are bikes with longer and shorter seat tubes.

https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/on-one-whippet-2020-small-15-5,scott-spark-rc-2022-s,specialized-s-works-epic-2021-s,transition-spur-2020-sm/

If we compare the Whippet and Spark above, which would feel shorter?

The Spart has 1mm less reach, but 4.5mm lower stack, and seat tube is a fair bit steeper. My Whippet feels fine but wouldn't want to go any shorter.

Also does anyone know the reach of a small 2015 T130 works? I can find most other measurements but not the reach. Geometry geeks has the 2016 model but the measurements are quite different.

If we compare the Whippet and Spark above, which would feel shorter?

Stood up or sat down?

Stood up or sat down?

Both.

I'd say they'd feel about the same stood up, the Scott would feel shorter sat down

if the reach is similar and the seat tube steeper you'll be more upright seated.

We’ll as the Spark has a shorter TT and Reach it would most likely feel shorter both sat down and stood up

We’ll as the Spark has a shorter TT and Reach it would most likely feel shorter both sat down and stood up

if you can feel a 1mm difference in reach you're a lot more sensitive than me.

I wouldn't notice 1mm. Don't think anyone would. Looking at Mondraker job as they have short seat tubes so I can fit on more sizes.

If we compare the Whippet and Spark above, which would feel shorter?

The Spart has 1mm less reach, but 4.5mm lower stack, and seat tube is a fair bit steeper. My Whippet feels fine but wouldn’t want to go any shorter.

If both bikes have the geometry stated when static the Spark is shorter. The Whippet will sag at the front only, reach will be longer then + STA will be steeper. If the whippet is a sagged geometry then the comparison is more er, comparable.

My Whippet is rigid.

Ok, if those numbers are for the rigid bike with the right fork length it compares to a susser more accurately